I have NO evidence that anything my wife has told me is the truth.

Self-delusion is pretty powerful stuff. You have the evidence - those lttle packets of lubricated, ribbed latex with the reservoir tips.

There are only two realities here:

• POSOM was fully aware that the meeting in Vegas was going to result in some horizontal hijinks. He is an untrustworthy husband. Contact his wife with a warning about HIM.
• Your WW was the predator here, and was going to prey on poor innocent OM. Contact his wife with a warning about HER.

(Sorry for the delay - after typing that last line I spewed coffee on my own laptop at the ridiculous content!)

We're not going to force you to do anything. But you came to this site for a reason. KILLING the affair (as opposed to wishing/hoping it goes away, never to return) is a major tenet of the content here.

So, if you're not interested in the voices of experience that have succeeded where you are struggling, what else can we do for you?

I wasnt going to chime in anymore because this isnt your real topic OWH. The original topic is one of pain. I feel for you and know it to well as in it we are brothers so to speak.
BUT as a BS I would want someone to come forward to me if they even remotely had suspicion of my Wifes infidelity. Proof or none I would want to know. So would you!

". . . think about how you can help yourself by eliminating those "grievances" in the future."

So

I believe it will help her feel more safe in talking with you, especially if you can withhold answering her until done, or just write it down and hand it to her.

Additionally, I have been accused often of being a man who speaks his mind, not mincing words, etc..

A friend once told me that it is my greatest gift.....and curse. To remember that our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses.

"A friend once told me that it is my greatest gift.....and curse."

By the way, the emotions you are feeling are normal. I remember crying when I was 15 when my favorite dog died, I didn't cry again until my daughter was born (at home, missing an arm, I was in my mid 20's)... I didn't cry again until the A...

Now? now I'm like the Indian in the old littering commercials.

CV

". . . the emotions you are feeling are normal."

Let me try to clarify for NeverGuessed.

OWH thinks the man his WW confessed about maybe some innocent acquaintence she offered up to throw him off the trail of the real OM.

I also don't think that she would pack condoms in her suitcase just in case she had a chance to seduce this guy. They were there because she has done this before, or at least was intimate enough with someone that intercourse was very close to happening.

OWH says that he has done an extensive amount of digging. Have you looked at the cell phone records and text logs? Nine times out of 10 there will be a number on there with hundreds of texts and calls per month. That is your OM, may be who she says it is, may be someone else.

Yes

You know, it turns out that all I ever had to do was treat my wife the way I truly felt about her . . . Oh my Man thats why so many of us find ourselves in this room. We as men dont see it from there side.We let important ENs go unmet until we find condoms. Ironic to a degree. Dr H says that ENs are so powerful of a force that when they aren't met anyone regardless of morality and convictions can fall to them.
Sounds like you both have made great progress. I hope this was only a wake up call that will finally help you be filled to the brim with the true happiness of a M.

Thank you, Hils.

Old War Horse:
Some of us have been really, really burned. I understand your efforts to monitor. Take it one more big step.
It is how all the BS I was handed (all the while being encouraged to improve myself and praised for it) came to light:
Put a $35 dollar voice actuated, tape recorder in her car - tape it under the steering wheel.
You will have peace of mind or you will hear that which you don't want to think about... The man walking up to her car at lunch - or the cell phone you don't know about or even some mindless talking to herself.... or talk with a "trusted" girlfriend while in her car.
Or maybe you will hear nothing.
Its the old "Trust and Verify" thing.
You have two boys that want Mom and Dad together forever and you should do whatever you have to do to protect them by protecting your marriage and if that means CIA tactics for the next year or so... Do so.
I once slipped a voice activated recorder in a compartment of my wife's pocketbook for a day. That is how you find out about phone calls at work on that phone or on pay phones.
Snoop and just let yourself sleep better.
Just the saddened voice of experience here....
Blessings,
Hurting Turkey
ME: BH age 56 Recovering Verbal Abuser
SHE:WW age 49
Married 13 years
Hers: 22 and 18 years
Mine: 30, 28 and 22 years
Ours: 11 years
She still won't admit A # 2 despite overwhelming evidence
Considered Plan B but was told not to by Steve H. since A is over
to hang on to Plan A. Grateful for the people on this board (even though they tire of telling me what I don't want to hear!)
Everyonce in a while I took the advice and each time it has led to some improvement.



$35 bucks and the time it takes to put it in place.

I like the rock formation joke. Yeah two completly different worlds.

Agreed.

IMO, you don't need it. Why? Your WW has already pointed the finger at the OM. So, at the very least, sharing this with the OMW would confirm whether or not your WW is lying about the OM's name, which will be to YOUR benefit.

IMO I think what you're doing has a lot more to do with avoiding conflict rather than anything else.

Ok so here is the way I see it.

You want to be strong and forgiving and live above these crappy and low human traits that seem to have taken hold of your wife.

You want to forget them and take the beating for it if you have to, you want to be tough and resilient.

You probably also want to do the right thing and adjust to the pain it has brought and hope it is temporary but stay the course reguardless.

This is a common trait with me also, I will be the strong one, and endure even childish selfish behavior and use intelect and cool headed thought to keep myself together and move forward in what I know is right, showing strength in adversity, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and all this is a test in life.

Well you might be able to keep a marriage together this way, seperate in heart from your W, and doing all the right things for all the right reasons. Pretty lonely though isn't it? Trying to carry it all alone now?

You fell in love with the imperfect person you once knew was not perfect, and she you also, but you made a commitment to love, honor, cherish, and forsake all others with her and she betrayed that trust. You didn't expect this, and it has floored you, as it now feels like all that the marrige did for you, and the security it brought you, in your convictions and the self-worth you found in being loved, might have been a lie. The journey and support for each other is/was/might be failing to be what it had promised.

Now you must be God and shoulder it all, and that is where your wrong if you believe that, because she didn't keep her end of the bargain. Oh yeah you used to be a bargain before, but you can call it a deal, or a business agreement or contract with God. The farther you get away from the personal aspect of it and the heartfelt enthusiasm of being together with the one you fell in love with, the more the passion leaves as part of the equation that keeps you together.

Do you see that part is key? Desire? Passion and excitement? Even jealosy and possesiveness? Fear of losing each other? Isn't that what really is the problem and the cause?

So you had a wake up call, and she has too from what you said, and there is tranparency between you now, and you are working on your marriage, as a team equally bringing to the table everything they have in complete honesty and passion and determination to make it work come hell or high water.

Addressing the question of how long in the topic, well how much passion and enthusiasm does she show in using what tools are here, or any tools, ways, means, available anywhere, anyhow, to fix this and your broken heart? Can you see how bad she wants it? She needs to show you, and you need to see it, then you can forgive and move on from that pain.

Praying you two will recover from this more than just put a bandaid on your needs, hope you will dive full force into that awful selfish area of loving and needing each other,(being ficietios there on the awful and selfish). Its your marriage and you have a right to protect it with everything you have in your power. If you value it you will give it time, money, and care for it, just like anything else that needs nurturing and care.

God Bless

IMO

Hmmm

doesn't appear to be an option for Crayola font

I actually appreciate your spirit, OWH, in defending your ignorant position. You have a lot of experience in doing that I imagine.

- You visit a counsellor, and immediately declare that he unaccountably sides with your WW in assailing you, causing you to abandon that approach. Not change counsellors, of course, just condemn the entire discipline. Feel better then?

- You ask why you're still not past the affront to your marriage (that you then claim didn't really exist because the condems you found weren't used? ) and when I, among numerous other advisors here, tell you that a vital step in moving forward would be exposure, because it's an ACTION, you refuse because you apparently think you're above such self-protecting behavior, and insult my cognitive abilities. Feel better NOW?

In about ninety seconds, I'm going to hit "Submit". I'll save you the trouble of a response: I won't see it; I will not be back. I have more exciting tasks to achieve than showing things to "he who will not see", and telling things to "he who will not hear".

But let me put one more question to you:

If you're so certain that there was no affair, that now needs killing, between your wife and the OM, why post HERE, in "Surviving an Affair"?