I did great for two weekends. Then this weekend, dh was at his Mom's fixing her mower half the day Sat., then needed to go to sleep early to get up for golf, which took half of Sunday.

I guess my Taker came out big time. I didn't want to talk to him the rest of Sunday. We had no UA time and he's perfectly fine with that. At bedtime he asked what he'd done and I said he didn't spend any time with me and he leaves in the morning. Turned into a big argument with him saying he is getting to the end of his rope and leaving sounds better and better. Asked if I wanted a D, I said no, I want a happy marriage. Both engaged in LBs. He just feels I want to control everything and nothing is good enough.

I made an appt today for IC. All I can think to do is to work on myself, work on getting this depression under control, and in the meantime either live by MB principles or just SHUT UP. I realize I have not forgiven him for my perception of his neglect in the past. I'm working on that with a Bible study about forgiveness.

He didn't want to talk tonight, which I understand. I feel like Cr@p tonight. The new ADs don't seem to be helping yet. I know perimenopause is not helping this either. May need to get hormone levels checked. I dk what else to do.

I want this marriage to work. I want my kids to have an intact family. I still love him. I just feel that I'm pushing him so far away it may not be recoverable.

May I suggest that you telling him with RH that you were upset because you didn't get to spend anytime with him was fine but I have no idea how you told him or what your LB was.

Instead of IC from somewhere else, why not get on the phone with Steve here? He can help you make a step by step plan of what you need to do as most IC is all about helping yourself and Not helping the marriage. I think the phone counseling here would help you with BOTH.

Just a suggestion :-)

Findinghappiness,

Again, I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. As others have said, you have two choices. You can complain about his behavior and actions and see if that makes your marriage better, or you can adopt the program and meet his needs, eliminate your love busters and as HHH said, be the better cake.

For example, when you spoke with your husband about how you felt and he said SOME of your stress is self inflicted, you have two choices. You can take the approach that he's not listening and isn't there for you, or you can step back and engage him and ask what he sees that leads him to think that.

Which approach will develop more intimacy? Will being hurt because he didn't do things the way you, or Cosmo says your man should do them build a stronger love between you and your husband. Or will accepting that the two of you are different and perhaps he has a perspective that is useful.

Have you ever thought that being the stressed out wife isn't very attractive to him? Like it or not, he perceives that some of your stress is self inflicted. You can try to talk him out of it, or shift the topic and say something like "you too add stress to my life." But again, if your goal is a romantic marriage, will that behavior help?

We really cannot do anything about his IB. We really can't do anything about how he sees you. But we can help you with your actions and reactions.

But you have to make a plan. It would be best if you could make a plan he would get on board with, enthusiastically. But it's pretty clear that if any plan even has a hint of fixing him, that he's going no where near that, let alone embracing it with enthusiasm.

So why not take something he does believe and apply MB to it? He thinks you inflict some of this stuff on yourself. So why not use MB, use the POJA to negotiate those things to your mutual satisfaction?

Why not return to him and say you've considered what he said about things being self-inflicted and you would like to hear more about what he sees and potential solutions. You both put solutions on the brain storming pile and come up with solutions you BOTH like.

The win-win here is that you find solutions to real problems you are having. He gets to see the POJA without it being about how to fix him. It's about how to make things better for you. You also get to show him, without a lot of fanfare that when things are better for you, they are better for him as well.

MB has to be safe for both of you. He has some real concerns about losing control of his life. For whatever reason, be it selfishness as some have suggested (a DJ by the way, they can't know for sure) or because he has some fear, he doesn't want to be treated as a project or someone who needs fixing.

So you have to prove that MB doesn't fix people, it provides a framework to build a strong and satisfying marriage.

What goes into that marriage that makes it satisfying for both depends on what you each want. If you get it or not depends on your commitment to finding solutions you both love.

You have to go first, demonstrating how things get better, to get him on board.

One other thing I've thought about. He may feel manipulated or trapped or even hopeless if he fears that you are going to leave. IIRC, you've either separated before, or you've threatened it. This could be part of his hesitation to change. He may feel manipulated by past events. He may feel if he doesn't tow your line, you'll pull out the "I'm leaving" card.

So how can he trust that you have the best interests of the marriage in mind if you threaten to bail out if things are not going your way?

You too have to work to build trust. Not for the same reasons. But the effect is the same. Threats to leave can erode the trust he has/had in you.

I may be months behind, so use what you find helpful and discard the rest.

Not much there to discard, brother.

Spot on.

These comments are very helpful. I do think dh went through some feelings of hopelessness when I wanted to separate a couple of years ago. He seems to be over that, but this last weekend was the first time he threatened to leave. I guess I'm the one feeling insecure now.

I will continue to eliminate LBs. I'll go ahead and get IC because this depression needs alleviated. It is MUCH harder to be positive when you have this stupid stuff. It runs VERY strongly in my family, so although some of it may be self-induced (and that's the part I'm gonna work on), there is a strong genetic component. I may have to continue to try new ADs till something helps more.

Now that I've quit the one job, I plan on exercising and taking better care of myself. That should help the stress level.

Yes, I do tend to reject his opinions if they make me feel at all like he's trying to "fix" me. I guess we're more alike than I thought! I will try much harder to consider what he is saying. After all, he knows me better than most anybody.

I will report here how I'm doing on following MB principles. I can use the accountability and support.

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You asked how you can convince your husband to get on board. Simple, you begin living the MB model. Keep your side of the street clean, eliminate love busters based on your best understanding of them as explained in the literature. Build him back into conflict or intimacy, and then approach with MB again.

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Again, I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. As others have said, you have two choices. You can complain about his behavior and actions and see if that makes your marriage better, or you can adopt the program and meet his needs, eliminate your love busters and as HHH said, be the better cake.

These two posts are right on the money, but I'm going to go a lot farther. You complain that your husband will not practice the MB program with you, then why don�t you lead by example? Show him the benefits instead of telling him how things will improve, because so far things haven�t improved at all, have they? BTW telling your husband that you will cease AO and DJ towards him is not meeting his needs, you shouldn�t be doing that in the first place. If I were your husband, we wouldn�t even be talking unless you can keep the tone respectful and even tempered. Your husband complains that you don�t treat him with respect and yet instead of asking him how you can change that you are here asking us what respect is and how you can give it. Do we really need to define what respect is?

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He said that he is fine with me quitting at least one of the jobs as soon as we know more about his future, as in as soon as he gets a permanent job. I can live with that until fall, but then it'll be too much with homeschooling starting back up. He agreed that the kids' education is more important, so I think we made headway there. 5/30/11

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I gave notice at my job today. Told dh by text after the fact and said I did it that way so I wouldn't hear his reaction if it was going to be negative. Told him I needed to do this for myself. He did not react badly and seemed fine about it during our phone conversation, so I was impressed with that. 6/7/11

The first part is an example of POJA, you and your husband were able to negotiate something you both agreed to. Looks like your husband is more than willing to talk and compromise. This was on May 30. The second part, on 7 June was a good example of independent behavior. You both already agreed that you could quit your job in the fall before school starts, guess you could no longer wait that long? And I have to really wonder just how willing you are to compromise or work with your husband when you say "

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He did not react badly and seemed fine about it during our phone conversation, so I was impressed with that.

You are impressed because he didn't get angry that you broke your agreement and then did something behind his back because you were afraid of consequences?

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I made it clear early on that I didn't want alcohol in the house and I would not remain married if he became an alcoholic. Imhad some concerns during college about his drinking and didn't want those problems in marriage. He has always honored that request. He might have a beer or two when we go out to dinner, or we might have wine together at times, but now I'm concerned about this drinking alone stuff. He says he just gets bored being alone during the week.�

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When I asked what he thought about only having a drink or two when we are together, and not drinking alone anymore, he said no, he feels he should be able to have a few beers after work if he wants.

After reading your thread, I get the idea that your husband has gone along with a lot of what you want, and have wanted in your marriage, however, I don�t really get the same impression from you. Granted, that impression is based on what you�ve written here, but from that little bit in your own words, your husband seems to be the one that�s willing to negotiate and compromise and you are not, at least you haven�t shown it in this thread. You�ve pretty much done what you wanted, which is what you say of your husband. But from him it seems like he has drawn the line when it comes to golf. Almost feels like he�s saying he�s bent far enough on other issues and this is his hill to die on.

As Dr Harley said, you need to get your UA time together. But what�s the right problem? What is it that is keeping you from getting that UA time? The fact that you spend so much time apart. And why do you have to spend so much time apart? Because you have yourselves in a box that you can�t see your way out of. Six kids still at home, one partner working away from home and having to spend money to do that, the other working two part-time jobs and homeschooling kids (wow, what a day that must be, day in and day out!!!). Don�t want to stop homeschooling, don�t want to move, don�t want to get better jobs, don�t want to really talk to each other. Lots of don�ts. Battle lines drawn from each�s intractable positions.

Identify the correct problem(s). First, you have to get better jobs, jobs that allow you adequate time for UA time and jobs that don�t entail working so many hours that you get sick. For that to happen you have to move, and I don�t mean move back to wherever you were living before. I mean find the best jobs for both of you in a reasonable cost of living area and move to wherever they are. Secondly, something has got to give, and that something is your insistence on homeschooling your children. It would be one thing if you had one or two children, quite another with six. You cannot afford to homeschool your children. If you can make more than your husband, but your husband cannot teach, then the obvious solution is for the both of you to find the most lucrative jobs that you can find in the same geographical area with hours that allow the both of you to work while your children are in school. Because your husband is exactly right in saying that you will be hurting financially when you get older. He was wrong in one thing, however, which was saying WHEN he retires. I�m pretty sure that your husband isn�t going to be able to retire, and probably neither will you, especially if you keep going the way you are going right now. You won�t be able to put away the kind of money necessary to be able to retire, and you�ll be very vulnerable at a time in your life when you need to plan for the possibility of a debilitating illness or accident as you age.

You need to decide whether the desire to homeschool your SIX children is worth destroying your marriage and your life in the future?

It�s nice that Dr Harley says it should be a choice of the wife to stay home or work, and I agree, when we�re talking about your average family of two to three children. But you and your husband made the conscious decision to have a very large family, and I assume that you made the choice together, right? So instead of a one size fits all policy the two of you are going to have to come up with a plan that fits your peculiar situation, not one that dumps the onus for everything upon your husband. I feel for him because I think he called it right when he said it looked to him like he was going to be the one doing all the changing.

FH, let's put this simply;

The people who toil the longest, are the ones who expend all their time and energy on these forums complaining about how horrible their spouse is, and doing nothing to improve themselves.

Worse, they go around, like a virus, and spread the same nonsense to other posters; your spouse blah blah blah.

NO.

You are here, work on you.

If your husband love busts you... ok, he love busts you.


WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT IT?


WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?


I hope the answer will become; I stated "I would love it if you ________." Kissed him, and then went on with a pleasant, EN meeting day.


You are here, it is up to you to become the light at the end of the darkness.

That's what I'm working on.

Here is my accountability report. I think I did fairly well at meeting dh's ENs this weekend. We had 3 cookouts to attend, the last one being at our house. We did ok at the first two, interacted a little, lots of family time. SF was good. Dh golfed Sun. Morning and I asked how he did, texted him to beat his partner during it, etc.

Our cookout went well. My Mom and stepdad came which was a big thing since Mom just recently recovered from an accident. Dh's best friend, the one he golfs with, came and brought beer and they had quite a few together, seemed to enjoy themselves.

Dh and I just interacted in passing, I had all the food prep to do. He did grill the meat then sat with his buddy the rest of the time. I was just on the periphery. At one point, I was saying something to contribute to their conversation (was sitting behind them) and dh says, jokingly, "is she talking
again?" like I'd been such a bother, even though I'd barely been around them. You have to know dh but that's just his sense of humor. Still, it hurt a little.

I laughed at the time. Dh hugged me after the cookout and said I did a good job with everything. I guess he really meant it when he said DS is a Big EN for him.

Anyway, at bedtime he said "we've been together all day and barely said 10 words to each other." I said I just thought he was busy, he said the same about me. Then I told him that that comment earlier did bother me. He said "you really think I was being mean?" and I said no. I just tend to feel left out when that particular friend was around.

Also several of us had been comparing license pictures and I got mine out as an example of finally getting a really good pic. After dh looked at it, he joked "I wish my wife really looked like that" or something to that effect. So I also mentioned that hurt me a bit.

Was I practicing RO, or is my focus still wrong? Yes he LBd me, but I should have let that go. I'm focusing on my own behavior and trying to fill his love tank and those statements don't do that. I'm thinking I'll need to do some self-care in order to keep my Taker in check. I'm not sure what else to do other than what I am already doing.

Good for you Findinghappiness, living from your values regardless of your H's reaction. Meeting ENs, eliminating your DJs, sharing your RO even when it's hard. These things will help you in every area of your life, whether your marriage gets better or not.

Plan A is super-hard to keep up for long, what support do you have? Are you getting your ducks in a row in case you get exhausted to where you want to move to Plan B?

Are you at the same time practicing negotiating to get your needs met too?

Update. Since I last posted dh and I have had some good UA time. Not a lot, but what we had was enjoyable. I drove out one afternoon this week and surprised him, we went out for a nice dinner, good SF etc.

I've almost completely eliminated my DJs, AOs, and SDs. I am beginning to take better care of myself. The new ADs are helping, so much so that I've even lost 9 pounds (yahoo!). I have been fun and pleasant to be around as much as possible. I am asking how golfing went etc and showing an interest in how he does.

I'm sure there will be some setbacks but I plan to continue to work on me. I'm feeling happier. As for him, he has been more affectionate. He seems happier. I'm sure he has his doubts about whether my change in attitude is long-term, but I'm determined it will be.

As for my needs, it seems like they are beginning to be met more. Affection, some good conversations, some compliments from him. I'm grateful for this but want my focus to remain on making my changes for now.