Glad you had a good experience on the radio, so did my H. I'm still not into the radio thing. My H had his own individual call and he chose to bring up what topic he felt needed (wasn't as relevant in my eyes or my choice, but it's his call and his feelings). H said the Harvey's won't read threads either, they don't have the time. If I find it necessary to reach out with an email, I won't hesitate. Had I known this a few weeks or months back I'm sure I would have utilized an email to the Harvey's. I'm not sure I'm there yet. I'll take your advice and re-evaluate after a couple of weeks.

IMHO is "In My Humble Opinion"

It's actually both.

http://www.acronymfinder.com/IMHO.html

I figured that was part of it. You don't have to call in if you don't want to speak; plenty of people just write an email.


I see ... have you listened to a few of the shows to get an idea of how it works?

I'll certainly agree with you that ten minutes alone doesn't give a good grasp ... which is one reason I've been hoping from the beginning that you would provide your perspective to Dr. Harley to go alongside your husband's so Dr. Harley can get a more complete view.

You're not going to get anywhere with that attitude.

Does Hilltopper agree with that?

Yes, it is. Markos and I were just talking about this. We've had slightly below 15 hours for the last 2 weeks -- a week with 14 hours, and then followed by a week with 13 hours. The kids have been sick, and we've let UA slide.

I could tell a difference very quickly. He agitated me more ... I was having to watch myself more closely to keep from DJing him ... We had a painful conflict, that triggered bad memories. It's amazing what a difference UA makes!

1 hour conversation last night that led to us deciding on talking about UA, POJA time tomorrow tonight with schedules and lists. H decided I could not pull a POJA on him last minute for wine so I went to bed and he stayed up with wine and TV.

This morning, plah

He talked to his mom about our relationship this am

H then called me later and said he would no longer stand for my abuse and things were going to change and I was going to see it. He wants this to work out but will no longer take it.

Later H said he had an appt to talk to Joyce Harvey.



All this is going in the wrong direction. I thought our marriage would be so much easier to repair. There's no infidelity or physical abuse. Why are we going nowhere. I'm feeling like this is going to end badly

I'm going to repost something to you that I posted specifically for your husband.

I do want you to know that it will get better. Neither spouse should be pulling "this is off for POJA". Well, most things anyway. If you aren't okay with him drinking, he shouldn't. I'm going to assume that it's not the drinking but the frequency and possibly amount consumed.

Here's what I posted to your husband.
Hill, something my dad used to say is that "no one knows what you do until you don't do it." Focus here is you do your job because that's what's expected of you. In adulthood we get very few "attaboys!"

My wife used to be the queen of DJs and AOs. I know you hear that a lot. But, really, my wife was queen. If I didn't understand what she was saying or did something she didn't like she'd clap her hands in my face and say, "Pay attention stupid!" This was a tradition of how the women treated the men in her family. Pretty soon you get to a point where you just know you're going to do something wrong even when you're tyring to do something right and it makes you stop wanting to do things.

But you can�t. At this point, you just have to eliminate your LBs and focus on meeting her needs. It�s really important to peg down those LBs. If one of the spouses (or both spouses) is irritating the other one, then doing those meeting of needs really is for not. One of the wonderful things about getting all this together is that when you do have the occasional LB it�s not really that big of a deal. You apologize, validate that what you did hurt the other spouse, and go on your way. You have to be really patient.

I like the house example. It works for nutrition, strength training, prepositions (yes, prepositions), and relationships. You two are still getting all the materials you need. There are times when you (as in you Hill) are trying to throw throw up the walls when you haven�t gotten the foundation settled yet. It takes a lot of work to make a good marriage and when your marriage has fallen to where it is now (as all of us that are here were where you are now), it takes awhile to get it back to good and then awesome. So go back and really go through the LB sheet.

As far as the coffee thing goes, maybe sit down with her and have her show you how she wants her coffee made. If she says it�s wrong, ask her what she didn�t like about it and then you can make it different next time. If she likes powdered creamer one day and liquid creamer the next day, then go buy both. I�m kinda like your wife�I�m really picky about my coffee, my wife is not. The other thing is is making her coffee on her needs list (I think this would fall under domestic support)�in other words is doing this making deposits? Don�t get me wrong, it�s important to do nice things for your spouse but if you making coffee for her isn�t important to her as far as the needs list, then go back over her ENs list and exactly what she feels is important. Make the coffee anyway�it�s a thoughtful gesture. In my case, my wife has a very very high need for DS and FC. She really loves it when I help cook and clean. But this is where I have to figure out what exactly she wants cleaned mostly. She likes the living room presentable and the kitchen clean. She also loathes laundry and since there�s 5-7 of us in the house at any given time, laundry piles up fast. So I concentrate on 1.laundry, 2. Living room, 3.kitchen. And I try to tie in FC to this so I make sure the floors are bleached and clean because we have a 2.5 year old that likes to lick things (like the floor or stuff off the floor) so it shows I think the welfare (so to speak) of the kiddos is important to me. This is why you two have to communicate this stuff. It�s almost like you�re picking up your bow and shooting arrows and occasionally you hit that center mark. Find out what her center marks are and this will improve your aim.

I know you�ve said you�re very hands on. So am I. I cook, I clean, I am very involved with the kids. Another thing I�ve learned is that my wife (and most wives) like me to take charge of situations. She doesn�t want to be the one to plan everything. So since I�m on summer break, I have a lot of free time. The week before, I�ll say �hey, on Tuesday let�s go to White Water and if there�s energy left we�ll hit the zoo or science museum.� She loves it. I like to also plan it because as the older I get I tolerate crowds less. So I know if I plan it and take charge of it, we�ll get to the water park at 10:30 and there�s not a lot of people. Then we can get a lot of rides and stuff done in a couple of hourse and get out before the crowds show up. If I don�t take charge of it, we�ll sit around and drink coffee for a couple of hours, and watch TV until it�s past noon and then she�s the one that�s taking charge of the situation and trying to get everyone out of the house.

But all of this takes communication and observation. At first, after taking the questionnaire, she knew she had a high need for DS and FC but wasn�t quite sure of the details. So we had to spend a bit of time really working it. I paid a lot of attention to her mood and how she responded to me. For example, she was happy if I was enthusiastic about doing family stuff. But we wouldn�t plan anything and then after being bored, she�d say, �wanna go to the zoo?� And I�d say, �sure, yeah� But it was kinda� rushed. Then one day (making this simplistic) I said, �hey, let�s go do something tomorrow� And she really lit up. And so we�d figure out what to do but I still wasn�t really taking charge and planning. But she was happier when I was initiating the activity. So then I said, �hey�let�s go to X and Y place tomorrow. We�ll get up, I�ll cook some breakfast, and we�ll get out the door.� And then she�d just �glow�. I noticed she became more enthusiastic about meeting my needs. Keep in mind this wasn�t a �You met my needs, now I�ll meet yours.� It just happened naturally because she felt closer and connected and loved and etc.

This is coming from us being on the brink of divorce. In fact, I�m not sure if I�ve ever really stated this before but my wife and I weren�t really in love with each other when we got married. We had our oldest son together. And we had a lot of conflict going. The real reason we got married (we had dated for years and lived together) was so I could have health insurance. Two things kept us together�the sex (yes I�m being serious�her words also) and children.

It really is worth it. It�s frustrating, at times you doubt yourself, sometimes (and sometimes a lot of times) you feel like nothing is improving.

Really it boils down to:
1. Find out what makes the other person mad and don�t do those things
2. Find out what the other person really needs and likes and do those things
3. Spend time alone laughing, flirting, and talking
4. Always double check with your spouse on decisions (POJA�basic consideration)

It gets a lot easier, Hill.

Because both of you aren't taking it upon yourselves to fully eliminate demands, disrespect, and anger, and follow the policy of joint agreement. Your feelings are going to prompt you to be demanding, disrespectful, and angry because your balances in each other's love banks are low. You are both going to have to override your feelings for as long as it takes to bring those balances back up.


It doesn't need to, but you do need to take a serious look at the existing problems and do whatever it takes to solve them.

It will be much easier when your feelings are in line with what you need to do. Right now your feelings are pointing you in the wrong direction, and both of you are justifying your own moves in the wrong direction.

double post

Because both of you have been cherry-picking the program instead of following it to the letter.
Both of you are still committing DJs.
Both of you are still ignoring POJA, and doing Independant Behavior (IB).
Both of you still treat each other like the enemy, instead of a lover whom you desire to care for and protect.
Both of you are neglecting to use the forms for Love Busters, and instead are trying to straighten each other out on the fly.
Both of you are refusing to protect each other.

Neither of you are considering the other's needs. You resort to IB instead.
Neither of you act as if the others' needs or points of view are valid.
Neither of you are taking any real time to meet each other's EN. You are busy focusing on how your own needs are being met.
Neither of you have been tracking your UA time. You claim you have 15 hours last week -- with no hours tracked, I seriously doubt it.
Neither of you have scheduled UA time ahead of time.

Both of you are focused on yourself RATHER than your marriage.

Both of you NEED TO PUT YOUR WEAPONS DOWN.

Do you want to use Marriage Builders to save your marriage? Are you willing to stop cherry-picking?

Grace, am I understanding this correctly? You did not want him to drink wine, you expressed this to him, and he did it anyway?

If so I am going to ride him hard over this.

tgrace,

First of all, it's Harley, not Harvey

Have you read through your thread from start to finish recently?

Can I tell you that one thing that has had me worried about you from the start is that you seem to have one of those "I know better" attitudes? I know because I have been guilty of this myself ~ so I think I can spot this type of personality pretty quickly.

Can I also say this is the type of personality that probably is guilty of commiting DJs constantly and probably isn't doing a good job of meeting your H's need for admiration among other things? Again, I can tell you this because this is what I did in the past and I have spent a LOT of time analyzing my M prior to my H's affair...

Your M is in trouble. This is the time to get humble and acknowledge that doing things your way is going to keep leading you in the wrong direction. Embrace the MB principles and Dr Harley's teachings. They WILL steer you in the right direction.

Will you get it right all at once? No, of course not. But keep trying. I can't tell you how many times I have had to re-read all the basic concepts on this site and a little more would stick each time.

In the beginning I was so in the habit of steering the direction of everything (household, kids, conversation, you name it!) and doing things the way that I wanted that I had to just remind myself constantly to be kind and respectful in the way that I speak to my H and to really try to listen to what he was saying to me. It sounds so simple but it is a good place to start.

BTW, I am not saying that HT doesn't have work to do of his own, but you need to focus on your side of the street for now.

Hang in there and KEEP POSTING!

Regarding the POJA & the wine, here is some food for thought for you:


Link: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2504161&page=3

I agree that HT shouldn't have drank when you didn't want him to but at the same time, I am not sure that you approached him the right way about it.

Steve Harley gave me a good analogy about how to approach my H about requests, solving conflicts, etc: It is like throwing a ball to someone, let them know it is coming so that they will be ready to catch it.

Had I been in your situation, I probably would have asked him to discuss the wine the following day when you were going to have your POJA/UA etc talk. I wouldn't tell my H "No, I don't want you to drink that" when he had just gotten home with a 6 pack of beer. Our standing agreement with alcohol is that we discuss it before we buy it. That's just my 2 cents.

Thanks for sharing.
I think I can take your advice on numbers 1-4. However number one will be the hardest. For example, I didn't know he was so irritated about the coffee thing.

Bingo!!

And I don't feel the need to convince anyone about the UA time, it was close the 15 hours give or take an hour

Yes.

If I had a "I know better attitude" I WOULDN'T be here on this forum in the first place. I certainly have my faults and H definitely does NOT like when I explain or justify things and I'm working on that. And of course my biggest issue is the DJ factor. This morning I really held back and listened for a change. I definitely didn't like any of it, but I sucked it in.

I'm sure your right about handling it in a more delicate manner or waiting until the next evening to discuss the wine. Please go back and reread my opening to my thread where I state that I am unhappy when he drinks. I had my limit of Friday through last night of wine, wine wine. We talked calmly but it was still unfair in my husband's eyes. Hopefully we can discuss it tonight.

It sounds to me like the ideal situation then is for him to quit drinking wine entirely. If it bothers you, he should not be doing it. Is that how you feel? He certainly shouldn't be bringing it home for undivided attention time.

Couples in bad marriages typically suffer from a lack of creativity as far as coming up with solutions to solve their problems. (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.html) Hilltopper heard you guys needed to spend time together doing something enjoyable, and it sounds like the main idea that comes to his mind is an evening of wine and something fun. Sounds like it became pretty urgent to him because he seriously wants to have a better relationship with you and wants to invest the time with you to achieve that. This is understandable; it just sounds like you and he need to brainstorm more and come up with more potential things to do. Drinking wine does not sound like a recreational activity you enjoy.