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Getting somewhat confused as to whether i should be in Plan A or recovery. The A was oited 5 weeks ago and is over. OMW knows about it and i have talked to her. Although it has been five weeks, my wife is still not herself emotionally. Although she claims she does not want anything to do with OM, she wont yet agree to NC letter, but she promises she will let me know before any contact is made. She also says she has no reason to contact him and probably will not. OMW will be off work for the summer and watching him like a hawk, so it would be difficult. She says in another week she may be ready to do NC letter.
She is also not quite ready to commit to her and i working on things as she wanted to get all of this, her A, behind her so she could move on. She is still very hopeful that her and i can work on things.
Am i still in Plan A or recovery? Seems like i should be in Plan A.
Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
D Day: 4/28/11
NC: 6/2/11
PA 1-1/2 yrs...WW exposed to OMW on 4/28/11
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Seems like you are still in Plan A Jack. And in my sitch I am getting coached from the vets that its time for Plan Recovery.
I can tell you, at 5 weeks past, I was still in plan "keep breathing -- stay stable." Now I am D-Day plus 4 months.
If you read deep enough in Harley's articles, you may have found his advice that Plan A can last about 3 months for BW's and about 6months maximum for BH's. For some reason, men stay committed to Plan A longer (competitive will or something -- devotion to their vows... women file for D more often then men)
Plan A your A$$ off right now -- Read that Do's and Don't list. A lot of us have fallen into what we call "Plan Doormat". Keep studying Plan A everyday. And set for your self an end date.
Clearly the NC situation is not good. A lot of "probably" and "maybe". The OM and OMW need to be completely out of your life forever, even if it means you must pick up and move. That's what I've read.
I do not understand either if you must get that NC and EP agreement now while in Plan A and dealing with foggy WW.
Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children
EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012
"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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Am i still in Plan A or recovery? Seems like i should be in Plan A. Plan A is a tool to end the affair. Once the affair has ended it is time to move to recovery, jack. You need to start leading your W into recovery...
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Am i still in Plan A or recovery? Seems like i should be in Plan A. Hi jackinthebox, there seems to be some confusion about the purpose of Plan A. It is to negotiate the end of the affair. When the affair ends, it is time for recovery. I haven't read your whole thread, but in general this is how you want to approach it: Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are willing to give her a chance to earn your forgiveness. Tell her you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested: 1. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle 2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc 3. no more opposite sex friendships 4. complete honesty about her affair � passing a polygraph if necessary to earn your trust 5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage. You are at a critical fork in the road in your marriage and having no plan is a plan is to fail. You can't afford to do nothing and hope she wakes up. You have to raise the bar and make sure she lives up to those standards if you want to recover.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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. Although she claims she does not want anything to do with OM, she wont yet agree to NC letter, but she promises she will let me know before any contact is made. She also says she has no reason to contact him and probably will not. This is not good enough. You have to DEMAND that she NEVER contact the OM again. This is a deal breaker. All she is doing here is agreeing to let you know when she abuses you. And any contact with the OM is abuse. Agreeing to tell you about it misses the point [not that she would tell you] There is no "probably" about it. I would let her know that divorce is the next step if she won't end her affair for life and take steps to never see or speak to him again. Taking a complacent approach to an affair is essentially to ENABLE it. If you want to recover your marriage it is important to take a very proactive, aggressive approach. I predict if you take a more serious stance here, she will take YOU more seriously. Paint a very ugly picture for her if she doesn't end her affair. Tell her a story about how you will file for divorce on grounds of adultery and have the OM subpoenaed into court to give sworn testimony under oath. Tell her how you will file for possession of the home and primary custody of the children. Your state's laws may vary, but you get the picture: paint her a very ugly future if she doesn't end her affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Paint a very ugly picture for her if she doesn't end her affair. Tell her a story about how you will file for divorce on grounds of adultery and have the OM subpoenaed into court to give sworn testimony under oath. Tell her how you will file for possession of the home and primary custody of the children. Your state's laws may vary, but you get the picture: paint her a very ugly future if she doesn't end her affair.
And, as cold-hearted as this sounds, ensure that she knows that it will be obvious to all her family. acquaintances, friends, co-workers, etc, that it is her FAULT that the marriage must be terminated, even though the initiation is by you. DO NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THAT "GOOD BYE".
Women have the automatic sympathy, it seems, of society in cases of marital dissolution. Seize that from her. She should know that her reputation will not be one of a "poor wife, abandoned by her spouse" but of a woman who blew the best chance she had for happiness by refusing to do the work to repair the marriage that she damaged.
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Remember, i had as A three years with a coworker, and my wife and i did not dwql with it properly...i know that now...and i continued to work with OW for about two months after A was over...nothing happened and it ended on bad terms and she ended up quitting, but i put my wife through hell for two months going to work every day, with my wife having to trust me that it was over? Looking back, i could NEVER have been able to deal with that.
So going forward, i did alot to wreck this marriage first, and neither of us knew the proper way to move on and it kind of got swept under the rug.
And BTW...i did honor my word and have for the last three years...and having been in the position my WW is in right now, i kind of know what she is going through, not that it makes it any better or justifies anything.
But i am not going to sit back and let her continue contact with OM. And i have told her this and we have been bqck and forth on it. She says she cant think of any reason she wohld have to contact him, but wont agree 100%...she said maybe in a couple of days she will...and i know my A is still fresh in her mind since we never dealt with it.
And i have been NC since the OW left work. I wonder if my wife is doing this to make a point of what i put her through...because she will say to me "do you know what it.was like to watch you leave for work every day knowing that skank was in the office.next to you"?
Last edited by jackinthebox; 06/04/11 11:03 AM.
Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
D Day: 4/28/11
NC: 6/2/11
PA 1-1/2 yrs...WW exposed to OMW on 4/28/11
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And i have been NC since the OW left work. I wonder if my wife is doing this to make a point of what i put her through...because she will say to me "do you know what it.was like to watch you leave for work every day knowing that skank was in the office.next to you"? Then you owe it to her all the more to stand up for your marriage now. It is not helpful in any way to tolerate her continued contact with the OM. Tolerance looks like complacence and complacence looks like you don't care very much. If you have had an affair in the past, I would think you would WANT to demonstrate to her that you care enough to fight for your marriage. Don't cripple your marriage again by taking a complacent approach to her affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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But i am not going to sit back and let her continue contact with OM. And i have told her this and we have been bqck and forth on it. She says she cant think of any reason she wohld have to contact him, but wont agree 100%...she said maybe in a couple of days she will...and i know my A is still fresh in her mind since we never dealt with it. This is not a committment. And until you get a committment from her to end all contact for life, you can't get past Step ONE. This just demonstrates that she is not serious at all about saving your marriage. I would set her down and line out some boundaries, jack. Let her see you standing up for your marriage. If your affair still lingers on her mind, then a show of your sincerity will go a long way. She needs to see you fight for your marriage. I consider your wife, not a victim, but worse than your average WS and I will explain why. Most WS don't know what it is to be a victim of an affair. YOUR WIFE DOES. And she still did that to you. That is a special kind of mean. She KNOWS better and can't claim ignorance. She has even LESS of an excuse than your average WS. [not that they have any excuse, but most are oblivious to the cruelty they inflict on the BS, your wife is NOT]
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Okay, i am still a little confused. People talk about being im Plan A for several months...does that mean the A is still going on that whole time? The A is over at this point, but we still have several issues before we can move on. My WW told me that she is still sorting everything out as to what our future is, regardless of OM. My A from three years ago is still fresh in her mind, and she is thinking about the things i said three years ago, like when i told her i didnt know if i loved her, ans then left for a few weeks and almost threw it all away...and for what? Because i was lost and feeling sorry for myself and couldnt deal witj everything and looked for an easy way out. But she gave me a second chance to keep the family together, and she had fo live every day with how i made her feel. And when i look back i did not really make any changes when i came back and we just brushed it under the rug.
If my wife had come on here three years ago with the way i acted, several people would have probably told her to throw me out.
So now to the current situation...do i give her some time and meanwhile Plan A my @ss off? According to Mr. Wonderfuls list of do's and dont's, i should keep conversation to small talk and not discuss anything out of her comfort zone.
Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
D Day: 4/28/11
NC: 6/2/11
PA 1-1/2 yrs...WW exposed to OMW on 4/28/11
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Once the affair ends, and you have said it has, the time for Plan A is over. Plan A is only for active affairs. Once the affair is ended, you move onto RECOVERY. You should give her a chance to earn your forgiveness and commit to a program of recovery. That is where you should be NOW. In your situation, Plan A is inappropriate and hope is not a plan. So now to the current situation...do i give her some time and meanwhile Plan A my @ss off? According to Mr. Wonderfuls list of do's and dont's, i should keep conversation to small talk and not discuss anything out of her comfort zone. No, you should set an expectation for recovery. This is a very critical time in your marriage and unless there is some plan in place for recovery, there is a plan to FAIL. There is no plan from Marriage Builders that says do not discuss anything out of her comfort zone. Especially with a spouse who won't commit to cutting off contact with her OM and commit to the marriage. Here is where you should be: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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According to Mr. Wonderfuls list of do's and dont's, i should keep conversation to small talk and not discuss anything out of her comfort zone. Jack, I think you are misunderstanding the quote. What it is getting at is that foggy people are very hard to reason with...but it doesn't mean that you can't have boundaries. Within days of my sister's H's affair ending, he was still super foggy, not interested in recovery, and every conversation they had, he would gaslight her. She finally sat him down and instead of a discussion, she literally handed him a piece of paper with a list of what he needed to do for her: 1. NC letter 2. Poly 3. change phone number & email address 4. implement EPs 5. spend 15+hrs a week together meeting each other's ENs 6. coaching with Steve Harley (there was more but can't remember what else) She told him he had a day to give his answer and then he would have to leave and she would divorce him and drag his affair and OW into court. So there was no two hour conversation, no pleading. Knowing that he had to make a commitment one way or another actually helped to defog him. They are recovering nicely now.
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Okay...i guess since WW has not agreed 100% to NC with OM does that mean i should not consider the A over? I am just starting to Plan A.
Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
D Day: 4/28/11
NC: 6/2/11
PA 1-1/2 yrs...WW exposed to OMW on 4/28/11
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Okay...i guess since WW has not agreed 100% to NC with OM does that mean i should not consider the A over? I am just starting to Plan A. As I said before, I would move forward to Plan Recovery now. Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life to avoid conflict.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What about all that i have read that says you should not make any big decisions for the first three months or so? So if i push the issue and WW is not quite sure what she wants right now, then i go ahead with divorce because i did not want to give her some time. I dont feel that i am enabling her or avoiding conflict, i just want to keep my family together and try to fix my marriage so we are BOTH happy.
Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
D Day: 4/28/11
NC: 6/2/11
PA 1-1/2 yrs...WW exposed to OMW on 4/28/11
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It sounds to me like your goal is to avoid conflict rather than recover your marriage, and that is ok. That is your prerogative.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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JITB,
You might not, but someday you will, understand that your reticence is most likely NOT so much the result of "wanting to keep your marriage together" as it is "playing the American neutered male".
The "don't make crucial decisions for six month" advice is directed to those males so enraged with discovering that their wives have been banging some other guy that they demand divorces immediately.
Deciding to FIGHT for your marriage is most assuredly necessary IMMEDIATELY. Those folks who have done so, vigorously and teneciously have had better results than the "oh, dear, I don't want to UPSET her" contingent.
Your call, of course. We don't know you, her, or how seriously the pre-A dynamic has tied your range of action now. But if you can see your way to standing tall, and enduring her outrage, you'll probably have a positive result.
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Okay...i guess since WW has not agreed 100% to NC with OM does that mean i should not consider the A over? I am just starting to Plan A. jack, you killed the A with exposure. OMW is watching and it doesn't get much better than that... The A was oited 5 weeks ago and is over. OMW knows about it and i have talked to her. OMW will be off work for the summer and watching him like a hawk, so it would be difficult. The problem now is not an active affair. The problem now is that your WW is driving this recovery. Although she claims she does not want anything to do with OM, she wont yet agree to NC letter, but she promises she will let me know before any contact is made. She also says she has no reason to contact him and probably will not. She should be told that there will NOT be any more contact NO MATTER THE REASON for starters. Again, this is not an active affair but a wayward who has been given the power to call the shots. That is a recipe for disaster...
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Nothing says you can't approach it like " We BOTH had affairs" and then lead into what Melody is telling you. This is on you too. Recovery is a two way street.
Does that improve the deliverability?
FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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Fear is not a plan for recovery.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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