Cheers! I hope I meet a buyer some day.

So, I forced myself to take some down time last night and tonight. I had to. I was exhausted. I was afraid to do it though, because I didn't want my mind to slow down long enough to think about the changes over the last few weeks. Sure enough, I slowed down and thought about things and was brought to tears.

I found out recently that my husband is seeing someone. I've been trying not to think about that at all. Hurts too much. I know I'm still in love with him.

I had my appt with my divorce financial planner the end of last week. She told me she doesn't think I can afford to stay in my home. I'm hurting over that news, but will do my best to adjust with a good attitude. I find it difficult to hold the attitude I'd like to have. My stbxh promised me that I would never have to lose my home. Just one more lie, one more promise he would never keep. Guess I need a lesson in security....I've grown quite attached to my neighbors, and my house lately. I am having a difficult time when the slightest thoughts of other women in my home come up. Any good mental gymnastics for that one?

I had to tear through my house today to find some theatre tickets I purchased last year for a magic show that's this weekend. I bought the tickets for my husband's birthday that just passed. Just looking for them was triggering. While looking for the tickets, I ran across the pile of cards my husband had given me over the years. I read a few and the things he said in the cards seemed so honest and heartfelt back then. They were all lies he would never keep. I don't know that I will ever allow myself to believe a man ever again.

Between all the above, I was down enough to cry.

4 1/2 years ago, I was naive, felt innocence, and believed in marriage, God, and my husband. Today, I grieve all the innocence lost, my lost marriage, and the loss of trust in my husband, in myself. I have the faith of a mustard seed, but I will press on and try to find joy in every day, every moment. I will even find joy in grieving, because it shows me I have a heart, a soul, I am reacting normally, and it cleanses.

4 1/2 years of changes and I am wiser, stronger, less trusting (not a quality I enjoy), and have more depth than I ever thought possible. I wonder what the next 4 1/2 yrs will bring.

I'll drink to that.

C.P., just made some decaf. Wish I could hand you a cup. I have some Dove dark chocolate too that I'd share.









C.P., I do feel like I'm struggling to make sense of things. When I fought for what I thought was right, I was told by stbx that there is "no right or wrong".

If there's no right or wrong, how do people determine what is "decent". I know it was all just his fogbabble clouding my brain, but the fog is still lingering and hasn't cleared yet. Sometimes I have a hard time navigating in it.



I've lost myself in his chitstorm.

Then we must be kindred spirits, because my stbx thought I was psychotic too.



I don't think I knew that about you. So you can relate to both sides. Good to know.



Same here when we first found MB. For the first time we were really connecting, or so I thought. Those first few months of what I had always wanted kept me hanging on for as long as I did. I get it.




Yes, I do believe that forgiveness is what's at the heart of the matter. I think you are right on target with that one.

{{{{{MJ}}}}}

<yoda>In lockstep, we are.</yoda>

Life goes up. Life goes down. Even our planet has yet to make the North and South poles static.

And you will trust again. Look at what you share here. You are trusting "strangers" with your inner feelings. Knowing that at anytime, one could come in and invalidate or counter-attack those feelings.

And down time is good. It may not be as "fun", but it still serves it's purpose. Remember, we're not the ones that run away from all of it. That's what makes us Buyers!

Itsa, I swear, it's this kind of stuff that keeps me going. Just knowing there are people out there like you and others on this board, that can still have humor in the dark nights. I l.o.v.e. it. I'm honored to be in this battle with you.



So, I really am one with the universe.



That may be, but you guys haven't promised to love, honor, and forsake all others for me.



Yeah...I think it was good for me. I feel better having let go of some of what I was trying to not feel.




"Meditate on this, I will."
&#8213;Yoda[src]

Purposely detaching. I like it. Detaching does have it's purpose, and to do it "on purpose" feels better and more empowering.

Ok I need to "splain Lucy SPLAIN!" a little. To be clear I am not trying to sound innocent, I am not, I ran and I was still married no matter why I did it, it was wrong, but it may help some see how easy it is to recover poorly and for all the wrong reasons.

Prior to my leaving, there were many traumatic events, and my wife was drinking and getting worse. Cheating, leaving overnight while leaving me with no car, I had seen the posibility of her having a drinking problem, and foolishly had thought I could help eventually, but she would not seek help, or admit she needed it, and I allowed this behavior while I worked and studied hoping to prove to her she could trust me. Lots of stuff happened during the first 3 years of being together.

She got pregnant out of wedlock---needed to drink because she was guilty,(Even pregnant?). She found out she had cervical cancer--needed to drink because she knew she was gonna die,(drinking helps this?). So I did what I could and stuck by her, I still had hopes of making it work after the baby came and the cancer was dealt with and she got treatment for drinking,(she didn't need that of course). I held on and kept working to create a good enviroment for her and I and what I hoped was a family in the future. I managed to keep the drinking down by being there, or I am convinced it would have been worse without supervision.

After my DD was born and WW had the operation that saved her life, I was ready for the intervention part, I was REALLY ready. The nastiness and insult from her dissapearing acts and attitude had me poised to deal with this. Buuut guess what? She was not married and that still was her reason for the guilt and why she couldn't go back to church where she had to go to get strength to quit. I said I would go anyways, that God certainly wants you healthy and you must have some misunderstanding going on. I bought it though and it was my own guilt.

So I insisted we get married, even at a justice of the peace, so we could go back to church if that was it..(Ok you have my permission to laugh at this lol). We got married and she was miserable the whole ceremony. I was totally entrenched emotionally by this time, she owned me, and the guilt and ego problems I had about this crazy woman who was nasty and drank and binged every other day were wearing me down. I was responsible for a child born into this mess, and bordering on leaving and bringing in CPS to take DD away from her. Now this was 3 years into meeting her..

Then we got her first son back because her first H who left his second wife for a girl with better boobs,(Yeah thats right.. }, called us and told us where he was hiding him. Ok, this was something that broke my heart when I first met my W, her story of him being kiddnapped from the church daycare and how she cried about that. He was a loser anyways and had co-hearsed her into marring him because he would kill himself if she didn't. She was 16 at the time and all the girls thought he was cool because he was a musician.

Funny sidebar.. Years later when they were standing in a pentecostal church and the audience was asked to give testimonys, her husband stood up and motioned to her to also. Then he pointed to her and said,"just look at her", like behold or something. W was embarrased and he stood there smiling. You gotta understand, she was incredably beuatiful, and apparently he was incredably stupid and in love with himself. She was never really in love with him but was determined to stay with him because of God and her son. After he left her for a women with more upright boobs,(What an [censored]!), she was engaged 7 times to some pretty good guys but never stayed with any of them. Your guess as well as mine to the truth of why, but the guy who handled the divorce he asked for looked at the judge and said, "He wants a divorce from her?" The point is.. she really was striking and like most pretty women, they appreciate being treated like real people, well, they respect it anyways. I hoped to continue to uncover the jewel that was buried under all the curse beauty had bestowed upon her. She was really still very mixed up and scared, ( well I thought that anyways)

Ok back to the story..After she got her son back I thought it would be an awesome healing part of her life. It could spark the beginning of her recovery from alcohol. We were bringing her children back together, and she had a way with children, a real soft spot and she was fearless in her love for them. I witnessed this when we were first together working with emotionally disturbed kids. She had a gift. But instead she started berating the poor kid, yelling at him, accusing of thinking all sorts of evil thoughts that were put there by XH. Of course I stood up for him and pleaded she get help. I was not going to stand by and watch the poor kids get treated like that. She stayed stubborn and kept accelerating her drinking. I stared to get violent reactions and shoved her in a few arguments, that when I decided I was losing it and I had to get away, she was gone and I could not help her, she was in love with the bottle and misery and did not want to be helped.

I decided to bring her and my DD to her foster parents, because I knew they would not put up with it and she respected them, never to return, and only to encourgae her to get help, that she had something good inside her, but we were over, there had been to much and I had allowed it also. I stuck by this for two years, even though after six months she pulled herself out of the bottle, and rejoined her church, and started a campaign to win me back.

Was I strong? Heck no, after six months I slept with someone else, and refused to make plans with her to be with her, which of course meant she wanted me too. Came to my house uninvited, through herself at me, even attempted suicide.(Why did I end up with crazy ones? Must be me). Anyways I was stupid enough to keep seeing her for a year and a half, until her therapist put a stop to it but by that time I was wrapped up in her too. Thank God for the therapist, and I hope she is ok, but something she said stuck with me allways. She said,"I felt sorry for you but I have come to realize you are a wolf in sheeps clothing, I reflected on a verse in the bible and it applys. "From thier fruit you shall know them, a good tree bears good fruit, and a bad tree bears bad fruit". You don't know what you want or what you should do. You wont get a divorce but you want to sleep with me while I wait. My therapist pointed this out to me. You need to leave and never see me again"

Something I read from a book borrowed from her had me thinking prevoiusly ,and when she asked me before if I belived in starting over, and putting the past behind, how I felt that if that was true, why would it not apply to my wife I had left, if it was accually possible. I could not escape that reality in my mind and it flooded in when I considered that possibility. The book was "The Road less traveled", and it was talking about children, and how they suffer the most when someone will not stay with them through anything, and never leave them, and how even though I left Mom for good reasons, they were now alone also. I was faced with the knowledge that all of my emotions and feelings, judgements and fears, were being allowed to rule my life, and that poor innocent children were suffering the consequences. I was using this girl cruelly as someone who was a wild screw, and eager to please, and I was really a wolf in sheeps clothing. I was also using my W, becuase I would show up there also and sleep with her, sometimes right after I left the girls house. (Remember the Dark side?) I was in a position of power and I hurt both of them, as I selfishly got my revenge.

This realization took me down a notch, and after two months of seperation from the girl, an attempted suicide,(Still can't figure out how I woke up), and with the withdrawel from the new girl hitting me pretty hard, I decided my life was worth crap, and I needed God, and maybe wife was right, that was all anybody needed. I went back determined to make it work, wavered on the AA thing,(although I did discuss it), and embarked on a new life before God.

So yeah I have that perspective MJ, and the experience of doing a half-azz recovery, and the burn-out of affairs. If I had left and stayed away, took the children, saw a counsellor, insisted on AA, not encumbered myself with trash that made me go back into the loop of guilt driven behavior, it is quite possible my wife would be alive today. It is only because she died that I am here. I would have continued with my behavior and my fear of exposing her issues probably as long as she lived. But as I look at it, God would have none of that, he demands truth and humility in our hearts and minds, and without it in a marriage, you are setting yourself up for failure.

I could have left anytime, and should have, my guilt meant nothing as far as sacrifice, unless I wanted that to be what I based the marriage on. See I wanted to earn her respect, even when I should have demanded it confidently and gently without fear. Her pride helped to kill her and hide herself from the truth that she needed also. Cronic shame is as deadly as any weapon formed by man, but many wield it not caring how they use it, or who it hurts, as long as it keeps people in line and serves their purpose. We both suffered from it to some degree, and wanted to let each other off the hook, to bad we protected each other so much, and were so afraid to open up about the wounds we had, both from the past and how we hurt each other too. Oh we were hero types, fixers and bearer of other peoples pain and sometimes thier consequences too. Both came from dysfuntional homes and shaky emotional backgrounds. That was what we saw in each other, that was the draw, that was the joint dream we recognized, and that was our undoing. Over achievers, unbalanced and reaching to high.

Well That was rather personal, but I felt it nessesary if it can help someone to be honest. I would not share it with anybody other than this board to help those who are in a fog, or contemplating a revenge affair, or moving ahead to fast trying to fix themselves and their lonliness. I was 28-31 when I left WW and had the affiar, and even though I might have had good reason to go, why I was there and what I did was wrong in both cases. But that why I am around here, figuring it out, confirming my convictions, and hopefully helping others to avoid the same crap.

Yup, thats part of controling your thoughts. Very healthy and like meditation, proactive emptying your mind.

Ok MJ, I was worried cuz I don't follow posters, I follow thier thread, and I did not see you on this one.

I was interested in what you thought about the book I wrote on my personal rebound relationship experience.

I knew it would be a tough transtion because of what you have been through, and although your experience might not have been quite as tragically dramatic as mine, I had an interest in sharing the truth with you, because I wanted to show you how easy it can be to go out and try to fix these heartaches.

Hope it helped and you are doing well.

C.P.,

First things first...you are not responsible for your wife's death. I'm all about sticking with your spouse through think and thin, but she chose the bottle. You also did try to help her, and she paid you back with more cheating and drinking.

No, it wasn't right that you had an affair while married, but you learned from those mistakes, right? To me, that's the difference. Some people never learn, keep doing the same things, and hope they get a different result.

I can see how easy it is to try to fill your hurts, and lonliness, with someone else, when your spouse ignores you for an addiction, or neglects your needs. I've been wanting to spend time with someone I could connect with badly. It's probably a good thing no one has crossed my path, at this point, that I'd want to do that with. I feel very weak right now, so yes, I know it can be very tempting to get that fix.

If it matters, I don't think less of you because of what you did in the past. It's what you do now that matters.

Sorry C.P., I've been in a really wierd place this past month. Much going on that I can't share here, and that has been difficult for me. I've been getting great advice and support here IRL, from my counselor and friends, but it's not the same as sharing it on this board. I hate that my stbx knows about this site, and has posted here. I seriously doubt he gives a rip about my thoughts, feelings, or what I'm saying here, but I can't be too careful.

That being said, I'm coming out of hiding for a bit. Once the divorce is final, I wonder if I'll want to come back and revisit the craziness that I'm living today. I may need to. It's going to take some time to heal from all of this.

One things for certain, I've learned today that I'm still hurting pretty badly. I married a man, who if he was a married woman, he'd be called a tramp, or a whore. He has absoultely no guilt or remorse for his actions, because "he is divorced in his heart". Yeah, I heard that one today. I think I've actually already read that one on the stupid things waywards say thread, so no need to add it. Lol.....It does pain me to joke at his expense, but come on.

I'm sorry it took me so long to respond. I sound like a broken record, but sometimes when I am feeling pain and confusion, I get overwhelmed and cannot post. It doesn't matter how short, long, deep, the post is...

Speaking of which....your post can cause me to dig deep to think sometimes. I do enjoy them. You're the kind of person I could enjoy talking to IRL, because I like to talk more than I type.

Just for the record....or for the sake of my recovery timeline, I find it interesting to note that for the first 5/6 months, I was in such pain, and a deep depression, I didn't want to talk to anyone (hardly), much less go out and socialize. I did on a few occasions, but I turned down a bunch of offers to do stuff with a lot of different people.

Now, I don't want to stay home, except for the last two days because I have been emotionally and physically exhausted. I have swung to the other side of the pendulum, and I don't want to stay home. I cannot wait to even out.

It's wierd how I've been able to go out for the past two months and have a great time, and not think about the stbx. But I've had a few setbacks learning of different stages regarding his 8th affair, and I can get SO down. Only now, it doesn't matter how down I can be, I still want to go out and have fun.

That is progress to me.

Lol well I will post later and rebuild the big long reply I just lost when I stepped away from the PC..Having a hard time with that latly.

Thanks for getting back to me and yes you are making progress on the rollercoaster that will slow down eventually MJ. Heck you might even get a chance to get off and pick another ride soon. Just be careful of the house of mirrors.

TTyL MJ I gots to do some stuff..I am Glad you replied I thought I might have gone to far.

{{{{MJ}}}}

Honestly MJ, I think you're doing great. It was kind of nice to see that you weren't on here ALL the time. I interepted that as "MJ's out enjoying herself". And that my friend, is a good thing. I'm not naive enough to think that it's been all sunshine and daisies; but, can't keep a good woman down right?!?!?

Sorry to hear that things on the D and STBX fronts are stressing you. But, the way that I try and look at it, is that I'm a person who has enough heart to let it all affect me. Some may call that weakness. I consider it a strength. It's much harder to sit in the rubble and still have vision of the collapsed hopes and dreams, and plan for the future; than it is to run away from it all.

And you're spot on with the learning comments. If I didn't learn from my past transgressions...I wouldn't be here. And that is the truth.

You are progressing. Sometimes, it doesn't feel like that progress is moving, or even in a direction we'd like. Chin up, and tell those IRL peoples "thanks!" from us for helping you on your path.

Oh Itsa, I'm on the biggest rollercoaster ride right now. I know you know what I'm talking about. I stay away from home just so that I don't have to think about how my husband is hurting me so. When I am away, I've gotten excellent at being in the present, and thoroughly enjoying whatever happens. Even if something is going wrong, I can find humor in it. Things that use to stress me, no longer phase me. Everything is minor compared to the anguish over my husband doing this to me again.

I have found that my life is immensely more enjoyable "living in the present" and enjoying every moment. It's just hard to do that here in triggerville, meaning home. So yes, I have been out enjoying myself.

The last two weekends in a row, I finally took a sailing class. I had a blast. Perfect light winds to learn in, and on the last half of the last day, we had up to 15 knot winds and was able to use what we learn. Those were high winds for us noobies, and it was a bit hairy and scary, which actually made it more fun. At one point when the winds picked up, the boat was up on it's side, and we were staring straight down on the water. My partner was frozen, lol. I let the mainsail go, and she straightened out. The pitcher of bloody marys the bartender made for us came out, and we downed a whole drink in about a minute and sat there for 10 more while we gained our composure and quit shaking...lol... After that, I broke out the water balloons, put up the pirate flag, and the rest was the best day on the water yet. Good times, good times.

Today I was invited by a past commodore to sail with them in a race tomorrow. I am SO bummed I can't go. I have a family wedding to go to. I am hell bent on spending my summer on the water. Two weeks from now...all day canoeing trip with 20 people.

The highs are feeling high, and lows still feel pretty low. I so want to even out. My counselor, who I just saw two days ago, tells me I'm doing good. A couple of things happened recently that convinced me there was no God, again, and she was concerned about that. It's been hard for me to keep the faith when I don't feel protected at all. Maybe God is protecting me. My constant prayer for months now, has been to reveal and heal. Well, he's revealed alright. Now I need to heal.

I'm trying like hayul not to let him keep me down. Some days I feel I'm worth so much more than my stbx knew, and other days, I question it. Counselor was TICKED off when I filled her in on some of the things my husband has said to me, to make me doubt myself. I feel bad though, because I said some pretty degrading things to him. Thing is, my husband did some pretty degrading things....




Itsa, I wished you were about 10 yrs older....lol...you get it. I am so looking forward to meeting someone who can feel. To me, that is strength. One of the things my husband use to tell me was that even though I could get really sad and angry....on the flip side of that, I can also be really happy and joyous. I know it's because I can feel. He once said on one of his threads here, that he could feel emotional pain, just not for me. There was some kind of block. And I'm thinking "Great, a serial cheater who can't feel for me". I'm doomed, and I was.



(Just fyi....I just had ribs on the grill at the pool with 4 other friends, and beer and wine to go with it. We stayed in the pool so long, I am pruned. Feeling a little on the fun side at the moment.


I will. Two of them are taking me to the movies Sunday. Sunday is my 18th wedding annivesary. I'm going to want diversions. My daughter has taken off work and is spending the day with me too. I am surrounding myself with people who are awesome and caring. I think I've just been attracting that into my life, because I have so much more compassion, understanding, patience, non judgement for everyone....except for my stbx who still shows me no respect. He's a fungus in my garden.

I come alive when I'm around people who show me respect. I shrivel and die around those who don't. I am choosing who to be around.

On the way home this evening, I rented the movie Casino Jack, and am about the curl up with some chocoate and peanut butter ice cream, a blanket, that movie, and my son who doesn't have to work tonight.

Tomorrow...family wedding, outside, laid back, sundresses and sandals, outdoor games, and my family.

I really do hope a bunch of us can meet up, and have some fun for a few days in the near future. I think it would be amazing to meet my brothers and sisters on this board who are all fighting to survive the affairs.

Peace out Homies.

Itsa is right on about how good you sound MJ. On second thought I will not reply to the other post with what I was gonna say about the way you felt. What your doing is just where you should be. Reflecting about the past stinks in comparison with living in the present. I have no interest in saying anything reflective to make you think, your thinking sounds just fine.

I believe with you that God has put a hedge around you, revealed and now your healing.

I am so happy for ya MJ, God bless ya and have a great time this weekend.

Thanks for the vote of confidence that I'm on the right track C.P. It's been a struggle to get this far, but I continue to try after every setback.

You know, my stbx talked to me about "living in the present". That's what he wanted me to do. I always wanted to do that, but it's hard to enjoy the present when you know that you're marriage isn't being protected, or that your feelings are only given "consideration", and nothing else. No poja.

Living in the present with someone is more than just enjoying the good times. It's being present with the people you are with, no matter where they are emotionally. So if I'm out, and a friend has a problem, I don't ignore them. I sit with them in it, let them talk to me about it. I am being present with them, in that moment. And by being present with them in the good and bad times, the friendship deepens. I couldn't imagine being so callous that I'd only want to be a fair weathered friend to someone.

Right now, I'm sitting here in pain, knowing my wedding anniversary is tomorrow, and my stbx will most likely be spending it with his adultery partner. I also get to be triggered even more by attending a weddding today. Great timing for me eh?

But I understand there's more to life than just my pain, and that there's love all around me if I choose to look at that, instead of my pain. So I do, and when I do, I can enjoy some things admist the pain. Life is a little sweeter. My friends marvel at how good I seem these days, but now it's not just me sucking it up all the time. They are seeing something genuine, and they pour the love right back.

Someone who enjoys life, no matter the circumstances, can draw people to them. This has been happening for me. My stbx would have liked this new growth in me, but he was too impatient to see the growth.

I'd say that stbx did not practice what he preached. His idea of living in the present, only included the good things. I know that's not what it's all about.

Mj your absolutely correct about that
I am reminded of that line from Billy joel "scenes from an Italian restaurant"

It's about a couple who got married out of high school in the height of there fame

" They got an apt
with deep pile carpet
and a couple of paintings from sears..
a big waterbed
They bought with the bread
They had saved for a couple of years

They started to fight
When the money got tight
And they just didn't count on the tears"

It's strange that people do not count on the challages that bring us to break and learn about life and love