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Im not as delusional as some people may think right now. I have some peace over divorce. I have already had women hitting on me. I do not feel at this time it is appropriate for me to engage in that behavior as i am still married and i am doing the best for my kids. I have had most of my married girl friends tell me that people will be lining up, if they havent already started lol. I do not have a big head about dating, not really interested in that right now. I am still a devoted father first that still has issues with the mother of my kids going down the wrong path. She needs god back in her life and i try to help with that. She is now dumped(for the moment) and this is an opportunity for me to get her to see our errors and get her thinking. She is still very WW right now. I swore to her that i would fight for the right thing to the end. I am a man of my word and i have upheld my end of that agreement. She has taken note of that and told me she sees me fighting for whats right. Its just a matter now of keeping her away from him and get her healing on track. I keep divorce matters in order and on track, making sure she is not sneaking anything in. i have yet to receive the final papers to resign and i will reread them. I feel i have my life in order. Just still trying to get a ww wife to come home to where she belongs. I mean really i have had a relationship for 18 years with this girl and been dealing openly about an affair for 4 months. You just dont turn off feelings, at least i dont.


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
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Part of me wants to hoot and hauler at the possiblity of your marriage being saved, but only if you want that kind of support. Otherwise another part of me is fully prepared to support you on your D.

Standing in your shoes - I would be fighting very hard. There are many cases on this board when waywards come home and they defog quickly and/or over time. I see my four babies and the greatest gift I could give them is their family. That means I have to take on huge amounts of sacrifice. I was the giver most of my marriage. I was the one who gave and gave to my husband and his taker took, and then my taker shut off my physical attractiveness and SF for him. Then His taker ultimately took him into the arms of Proverbs 7.

I actually sit here and pray to God that he would hand me something like your situation. I pray that God will show my WH the light when he comes home from deployment. Maybe just maybe he will want his life back.

My WH is very stubborn at the moment. He is running and I know he feels tormented. He is looking at two options:

1) If I go home my wife will hold me seriously accountable and I will lose all my freedoms, privacy, and wayward friends. (This will be his hardest and most difficult path, but it produces the greatest reward in life.)

2) If I leave my wife then I have my freedom, my wayward friends, noncommittal sex, and fun. (This is lazy, immature, and scapegoat life that requires little of me, but in the end produces nothing.)

According to him he wants #2. I am giving him time down that path when he comes home. I have to say I am stuggling becaue raising these four babies is exhausting. Times I feel like giving up and running for the hills.

My heart is telling me to give him patience, delay the divorce at all costs, and let him taste his freedom.

I have an advantage his kids and I live 1500 miles away now. He knows I am not treating him as a friend. He will have his visitations in hotel rooms. He is super pizzed at that prospect. He tought he would come to my apartment.

I will be here for you on whatever decision you decide because I have a strange feeling I will be writing about my wayward and the possibility to Plan A again for reconciliation and/or divorce.

I just look at my four babies, and my heart says I have to fight for this until I know 100% it is over. Today I am not there, and only by God's grace can this family be saved. My faith tells me all things are possible through Christ.

I firmly believe that, so I still hold out hope my marriage and family can be saved.






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Originally Posted by lostman101
I mean really i have had a relationship for 18 years with this girl and been dealing openly about an affair for 4 months. You just dont turn off feelings, at least i dont.

No need to defend yourself to us. The above makes perfect sense.


Me (BH)
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lost - it sounds like you're "kind of" following the motto you should - 'hope for the best and prepare for the worst'

IMVHO - that's where you need to be. TimB, NW, you, and me are all in a similar place in terms of D-day timing. Fatigue is probably setting in a bit for you, as it is for me. That makes it even more important that you have a plan - you can't bring your A game to this 100% of the time. Please work on the things you control - that's mostly you and your kids. WW is beyond your direct control, so you have limited influence there. Be the best Lost you can be!


BS(me)- 45
WW - 41
D-day 1 - (PA) 01/2011
DS - 6
Exposure: early 02/2011
Started Plan B - 7/11
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Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Part of me wants to hoot and hauler at the possiblity of your marriage being saved, but only if you want that kind of support. Otherwise another part of me is fully prepared to support you on your D.

This is exactly where im at. With most everything being in my favor at the moment. She still claims she does not want to come ever, but i know she is also holding on to the om as they just broke up and she is in WW fog. So, i still try.


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
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Originally Posted by nesre
Originally Posted by lostman101
good points nerse. She takes care of the kids during work. she picks them up and drops them off at school(christian school no buses). She doesn't even have money to take them to Mcdonalds to get them dinner. I have thought about changing locks on the house. Yes she is running me over. Yes she does make me feel like crap. OM doesnt give her money, he doesnt have any according to his wife.

Yes im in a rut and im trying to get this back together.


LM101

I also asked you to read What are Plan A and Plan B.

Plan A is the set up for Plan B. We can't live long with the pain from the knowledge of our spouse having an A.

Plan A= We demand our WW end their A. If they don't then within a time frame (usually up to six months for men if they can take it puke) we make reasonable attempts to persuade them without LoveBusters. This whole time we are planning for Plan B. Getting fianaces in order/Lining up an IM/consulting an attorney about legal rights etc...WE DO PLAN A WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OUR WW IS GOING TO BE WITH THE OM.....

Should that pre-set time elapse without an end to the A then we move to Plan B. We try to move into Plan B when we still have some balance left in our LoveBank. We write our Plan B letter spelling out the conditions that our WW can return to the M.

Would it help if you spelled out a plan here and let other critique it? At this point with what you are saying it appears your LoveBank balance is running low. If this is the case then Plan B is in order.

You have to know what direction you want to go in this M. The above is the very short version to the MB's plan.

A written plan may help you to know there is an end point to all of this. When LM101 has done all of this(his plan) then LM101 is done instead of going day to day with whatever a fogged out WW tells you or decides to dish out. HOPE is not a plan.

What do you say? Can you come back here with a plan and let others help you to refine it further constructively?


From chapter 13 HNHN's

Quote
Step 1: End the Affair

The first step on the path to surviving an affair is for it to end. An affair ends when the straying spouse ceases all contact with his or her lover and never sees or talks to that person again. Time and again I've watched what happens when a drastic and decisive break with a lover is not made. They try to remain "friends" and maintain casual social contact. But inevitably they find their way back to their lover's arms. It seems that when it comes to this one person, they exhibit incredibly flawed judgment and almost irresistible force draws them back.

But even if there were to be no risk of rekindling an affair, if any contact continues, the affair still remains alive in the mind of the betrayed spouse. Since an affair is the most hurtful and selfish act that one spouse can inflict on the other, any contact restores the memory and perpetuates the pain. Wives have told me that their husband's affair was worse than being raped. Men have said their wifes affair was worse than losing a child. It's the ultimate betrayal.

For some, the affair ends the right way. The unfaithful spouse sends a letter to the lover that communicates how much suffering the affair caused the betrayed spouse and how thoughtless it was, a desire to rebuild the marriage, and that all contact would be terminated forever. The betrayed spouse reads the letter and approves of it before it's sent. After the letter is sent, extraordinary precautions that I'll explain in the next step are taken to avoid future contact with the lover.

But most affairs end the wrong way -- they die a natural death. Instead of taking control of the situation, and making a decision to end it, most unfaithful spouses continue in the relationship as long as possible. Affairs, however, don't usually last very long. I estimate that 95% of them don't last two years. Those few who eventually marry are extremely fragile -- much more likely to divorce than the average couple. So if an affair doesn't end the right way, it will almost always end, even if it's the wrong way.

If your unfaithful spouse is unwilling to end an affair the right way, I know of a way to help speed up its demise: Expose it. Your own family should know: Your parents, your siblings, and even your children. The family of your spouses lover should also know, especially the lover's spouse. The pastor of your church should be informed as well. Exposure of an affair is like opening a moldy closet to the light of day. Affairs do well when they're conducted in secret, but when they're in full view for all to see, they appear as they are -- incredibly foolish and thoughtless.

Even if exposure were to be ineffective in ending an affair, I'd recommend it anyway. The betrayed spouse needs as much support as possible, and exposure helps friends and relatives understand what's going on. Keeping an affair secret is no real help to anyone. But I've been amazed at how well it dismantles the illusion that affairs rest upon. Instead of assuming that the relationship is made in heaven, an unfaithful spouse quickly senses that it's a one-way ticket to hell on earth.

The first reaction of an unfaithful spouse to exposure is to try to turn the tables on the betrayed spouse. "I will never be able to forgive you for hurting me this way. Don't you ever think about how I'd be affected by this?" Of course, it's really the affair that hurts. The exposure simply identifies the source of the pain. The unfaithful spouse should be the one begging for forgiveness.

In spite of the suffering that an affair inflicts on a betrayed spouse, during this period of exposure he or she should try to make as many Love Bank deposits and as few withdrawals as possible. If you argue about the affair, you'll damage recovery. Insist on the unfaithful spouses complete separation from the lover (no contact for life), but don't fight about it. I call this strategy to end the affair Plan A.

If exposure itself doesn't end the affair immediately, my advice regarding what to do next is usually different for husbands and wives. I encourage husbands to try to stick to avoiding arguments and meeting their unfaithful wives' basic needs (Plan A) as long as possible (six months to a year). But I usually encourage wives to separate after about three weeks if their husband is still in contact with his lover. My experience has taught me that the health of most women deteriorates quickly and significantly while living with an unfaithful husband. Men, on the other hand, tend to be able to weather the storm longer with fewer emotional or physical effects. I call the strategy of complete separation Plan B.

In addition to avoiding health problems, a separation also helps a betrayed spouse hang on to what remains in their spouse's Love Bank account. Daily interaction with an unfaithful spouse causes such large withdrawals, that a separation with no contact between spouses can actually help the marriage by temporarily freezing the betrayed spouse's Love Bank. When the affair is over, the betrayed spouse is less likely to divorce when the unfaithful spouse wants to give the marriage a chance to recover.

Yet another advantage to separation is that some of the basic needs met by the betrayed spouse suddenly disappear. This is especially true when a couple has children. An unfaithful spouse often overlooks the betrayed spouse's contribution to the family. While the lover may meet two basic needs that were unmet by the betrayed spouse, the betrayed spouse may have been meeting the other three that cannot be easily met by the lover. During a separation, the unfaithful spouse can become acutely aware of what he or she is missing.


Do you have the books SAA or HNHN's?


nESRE



LM101

I posted this to you on 3/22/11.

Insanity=Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

You have a chance here now that your WW is waffeling to really work the MB program.

OR

Are you going to stay with Plan LM101? Your showing her the same old LM101.

The D can be put on hold should you decide to Plan A or B. ALLOWING her to bounce in and out of your lives (you & the childrens) any time she chooses is not healthy for any of you.

What message are you sending your children by allowing this?

Just a few thoughts....I feel for you brother. D is not where I wanted to end up either.

nESRE


M 29 yrs
DS 28 DD 18
Me 53 FWH FBS
MTA signed 5/11/2011
D final 5/16/2011

Free.... and going wherever the big guy wants me to go......
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Well here is what im going to do. I have a plan. Its called Divorce. She is done burning my bridges. I said i was on the fence and could see both sides. Well this ploy about her being dumped was all a show just so i would be nicer to her and get divorce over with in a nicer fashion. I was optimistic, she put on a good show, but i suspected this the whole time. I even called her out on it several times. She told me today after i knew she spent the night there again. That is also why i wouldnt back off of no contact letters or anything else. I stick to my guns and i guess i will be heading back to the divorce forum.


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
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Posts: 1,719
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Lost - I'm sorry to hear about this development. You have just experienced one of my greatest fears. I feel sorry for you.


BS(me)- 45
WW - 41
D-day 1 - (PA) 01/2011
DS - 6
Exposure: early 02/2011
Started Plan B - 7/11
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Thanks Andy. I figured it was a little to good to be true. I also figured that she would be a little more vulnerable if it was the case. I treated her as if she was dumped, but questioned her everyday if it was true and had my doubts about it the whole time.

Last edited by lostman101; 06/03/11 03:21 PM.

Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,870
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Sorry to hear this LM101, she is digging a pit and doesn't seem to care who falls in it.

Take good care of yourself OK?

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Thanks CP, you have been a big inspiration for me and i value your opinions and views.


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,820
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Lostman101,

well now all that is left for you is taking care of you, do not give her another minute of your time............
your children and you, that's it............
let her figure out her life will be a mess all on her own.
the OM won't live up to her expectations..........can't wait to hear that fell flat on it's face........
I am angry for you.............she is a mean one...........
leave her in the dust on your way to your new life..........
hugs....
jessi


BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
Working on Recovery
Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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Thanks Jessi, just had a ball game for my oldest and she had to be there. Just hearing her talk was enough to piss me off. I never spoke to her unless spoken to and when game was over i was out of there. she bought a new car today and i didnt even care. I dont know how she afforded it and i was out of the parking lot before she could even show it off lol. im done caring, lets get this divorce over and on to better things. I will make sure my next one will be better and make sure the kids love my next wife more than her own mom. She is very mean and none of us deserve her. poor kids.


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
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I am so angered for your babies. Know you have the truth on yourside and all you can do is lead by example. Kids are smart, they know how to read people.

I have no doubt you will be teaching them the difference between right and wrong and why honesty is always the best policy. They will stand for something. Their integrity, character, and values will shine as they grow.

My stomach is sick by her behavior. Stand tall and be proud of the man you are today. You will thrive from this and you will go onto do amazing things with you and your children. Your WW will lose it all. Within two years you will see a woman that is so consumed by depression, guilt, shame, and lonliness. People of her caliber (my WH included) don't get far in life. Their behavior will leak through in their day to day existence.

They cannot hide behind this behavior for long. Human nature doesn't allow for this to be supressed. It will eat at every fiber in her body no matter how hard she tries to make it go away.

I will give you and your babies many prayers. I will pray for her addiction to be healed and God brings her to her knees. She is a broken woman, and with time you will see her slowly deteriorate until she is ready to repent, and begin a new.

Cheers Tough~


Last edited by itistoughlove; 06/03/11 08:54 PM.
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I am so sorry this happened to you lostM. Its seems to me my take on it is that she being completly out of control. I know you probably see it that way too, and Ill bet like me you can't figure out the attraction. Why would someone want to act so bad, and have no accountability to thier God? That has got to be the toughest thing on you because if I read you right you are a righteous man.

Its feels maybe like God has forgotten you, or that you did something wrong, I know, I have been there if that has been part of your pain. I don't know. I did everything to make my late W happy and gave her full rein of her life, encouraged her, and gave all I had. In my case it was different yes, but she had a whole church to go to to understand herself, and she chose to do what she felt and make the rules of life fit around that.

The man she went to fancys himself a sorta "connected" guy also. But I know what kind of child he is, I used to know them long ago. I am nobody Lostm, but i was respected because I was not afraid and I treated them like human beings, even in thier fears. I thought at one time they had some secret because they intimidated others, but I came to the realization that they were like the bad dog behind the fence, their pain and loneliness made them afraid, and fear is the most powerful motivator to everything that feels and reacts to it.

Thank God for his Son that we have been taught well, and we don't even have to fear death, because in his Kingdom we will allways live. Those who cannot see, or hear, will not bow to that truth that thier is more to life than our physical bodys that are dieing every day. We see it all the time, but when someone we love falls like this, esspecially our mates we have commited ourselves to God to protect, it is an extreme pain only God will heal over time as you seek understanding and grace.

It IS a terrible place that he WILL heal for you. In time you will be able to forgive her I am sure, but untill then just take your time and let God in and poor your heart out to him. His grace is unmeasureable and greater than the evil that your WW is embracing.

How is your relationship with her parents and/or between them and the children? Do you talk to anyone in your church about this? Are you part of a prayer group? Soak up as much of the word as you can and draw near. You and your kids need it.

You will overcome this LostM, I promise. If that means anything, but more importantly God promises, and He can allways be counted on for his promises.

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Originally Posted by lostman101
she bought a new car today and i didnt even care. I dont know how she afforded it

Just to make sure you're not somehow liable if she cannot pay for it, ask your lawyer about it.


Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

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CP it does feel like god has forgotten me part of the time. I was really feeling that way at first. Now i dont feel that way so much. I have come to understand that there are much better things in store for me in the future. My relationship with her parents is good, as well as the rest of the family. I was just at their house with the kids for their 40th wedding anniversary. There were a lot of people there that i got to visit with. Sadly tho, WW wanted no part of it and looked for excuses not to be there. She has done her job getting the point across to me there will never be reconciliation. Cant figure that part of her out with 4 children, but like we all know, she is messed up.


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
Joined: Apr 2011
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Lost I have been doing some research on how infidelity can be seen as an addiction. In my case my WH also hid pornagraphy from me for years. And POSOW looks and acts like a porn star. When she dangled that body in front of my WH his boundaries went out the window and his fantasy came alive.

I struggle like you, "How can this father become so emotionally unavailable to his kids?" Part of my situation is he is deployed, so he has detached himself from his life stateside.

Still he has completely detached from my kids. When he calls and/or SKYPES with the kids he isn't connected at all. My kids don't give him much time, and they don't have much to say to him.

I don't know how he does it with his emotions but it has to be so difficult to realize this is his life. I can only assume he has to regress and detach further because the pain is so overwhelming.

As of today, nothing has knocked any sense into the man. Losing everything still hasn't allowed him to hit rock bottom. That is why I have to look at the situation as a strong addiction.

His addiction has gotten completely out of control while deployed because he has so many enablers around him (MIL, friends, military, etc.) I also think my WH has some narcissism in him, but who knows.

I can only assume your WW must have a set of strong enablers around her that are feeding her addiction. Her addiction is being fed and it is strong to break. Your four children are probably a trigger for her. They trigger her on

1) Responsibility (it is an exhausting task to raise four small kids),

2) On love (she knows she needs to love them but is overwhelmed by the responsibility),

3) and Hard Work (she knows giving her children unconditional love is hard work because she has to discipline them, tough love them, and meet their emotional needs.

How can she possibly do any of 1-3 when she cannot do it to herself. For her to do 1-3 means she will have to first do them to herself, so she has the ability to walk her talk.

Like my WH it is easier for the wayward to regress, escape, and walk away.

I decided moving forward in my own personal recovery I would not settle for this addiction and the codependency I have to affect my children. All I can change today is how I teach my four babies how to cope and handle life's stressors.

I do have to thank this affair for one thing; my ability now to change the course of their future. Together we can do this. We can raise these babies to know the difference and hopefully protect them and their marriages.

Cheers Tough~

Last edited by itistoughlove; 06/06/11 10:20 AM.
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Tough, That is very logical and really interesting point of view. Thanks for that.


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 393
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To go along with toughs post, she is supposed to have the kids everyother weekend and now on those weekends she wants me to take the kids at 5 on saturday night and she wants them back on sunday after church. This is so the kids will get to go to their normal routine on sunday morning as ww does not go to church. Just really odd that she is now ducking out of that. I should make her keep them, but my top priority is the kids and the less time with her the better for them. I jump at the chance to keep the kids no matter what to keep them from her. Goes with that philosophy of not taking responsibility


Me 37
WW 37
Married 14 years
4 boys 10,8,6,3
exposure Day 2/18/11
A started 11/2010
Divorced 7/21/2011
Has it been a year already??
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