Agreed. I think most of us do not have the relationship skills needed when we marry. I think most of us have to learn them. Some people just don't care to learn them, and implement them with patience and commitment. Some people would rather just take the easy way out, start out with someone new, and most likely end up in the same place eventually, because the required skills were never learned, and implemented.

I believe the vintage love is what we all want, and is the most rewarding part of all relationships, but can only be obtained if you two willing partners. My stbx wanted the vintage love, but didn't have what it takes to get there.

The University of Life is where we all seem to be on this board. My husband dropped out.

I could use some prayers today. It's my 18th wedding anniversary today, and my stbx is most likely spending it with his adultery partner.

If someone would have told me on my anniversary last year, that my husband would be spending our next anniversary with yet another affair partner, I don't know that I would have believed them.

Honestly, I am still in shock that he could hurt me like this again. He admitted to me this week that he feels no guilt for it.

So everything he ever told me over the last four years during this half azz recovery, was nothing but pure BS. He didn't mean any of it. How could he? He's still doing the same things. He use to get angry because I couldn't trust him. Guess I was right not to, and deep down, I knew it.

((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))) and prayers.

Amen Sista, thanks for being in my study group



I know I know, it had to be recovery on his terms, and when he had to step up and out of himself.. he abandodned it..

But the highlighted section speaks to how I really knew inside something stunk, and didn't listen to my gut feeling, or spirit as others call it. Many good and strong betrayed people can attest to the same, they should have listened to thier gut.

Four years on the board huh? That is a tough one to swallow MJ. Its like with me twelve years in the church and waiting for her to have her ears open up, recieving strength to hold on, just to watch her fade away.

But we hear the wisdom and recieve what we need when we are around places and have our ears open. I will pray for you for today and continued covering from WHs BS.

God Bless

Couldn't access that link to the map MJ.. Dang...I can use all the study info I can find lol

Thank you C.P. and NSZ for the prayers, and the thoughts. I could certaintly use some covering from his BS.

I'm spending the day working on divorce paperwork.

Hey C.P....I think I fixed the link if you want to try it again. That whole site is pretty awesome.

Hey C.P....it's interesting to note that only 4% of couples make it to vintage love.

I believe with all of the knowledge I have now, the grit I have for commitment, and my overall belief system, I would have been in the top 4% of my class, had my study partner not dropped out. I may be overly confident of myself, maybe even delusional, but I really don't think so. I think I could pass that class.

With the knowledge I have now, I can pick a better partner next time.

I will be praying for you. Pray for me as well, since tomorrow is our 13th anniversary.

Although I never caught my STBXH in an affair, he has been verbally and emotionally abusive.

Soughtout, I will. I am so sorry you are experiencing this as well. I just went and read your posts again.

You said something at the end of your thread that was noteworthy. You stated that the healthier you became, the less you were able to overlook. That's a good thing, even though it hurts like heck now. I am proud of you for that.

I know that I feel better when I remember that I had boundaries in place to protect myself from his weak boundaries. I remember he told me once that he hated boundaries. I had been discussing something I read out of a book, and he literally shuddered at the thought of boundaries.

Throughout our "recovery" he stated his own boundaries many times. I guess he didn't like it when his wife had her own.

{{{{{{{{{{MJ}}}}}}}}}}

Sorry I'm late! I was cleaning and outside with DS all day.

I can only imagine what completing D papers is like on an anniversary. The closest I have to that, is driving STBXWW to see a lawyer on my birthday (A#1). Worst bday present EVER!

Hope you're winding the day down alright. Remember, it's ok to be emotional. Pain, is weakness leaving the body.

Oh, and had this thought earlier. You know how all the runners around here talk about how close of a community running is? Well, sailing is right up there with them. Imagine that... Meeting someone who loves to be on the water, and the RC you can get out of that. Man. Tickles me just thinking about it..

Be Well MJ. (from Demolition Man...yes, Stalone and Snipes)

Map works MJ, Interesting and I will look at it some more later. TY.

Hope Today went OK for you.

Hey Itsa. I'm glad you had a productive day with your son. Thank you for taking the time to stop in.

Today was a horrible day for me. The AC unit in my house went out, and I live in Florida. The temp in the house is 90, even now in the evening.

I was not able to get past my grief today, even for a little while. I was unproductive with the divorce stuff to boot, so I'm stressed as well.

I could have taken my laptop and gone somewhere to work on what I needed to, but I just couldn't get out of the funk. I did manage to get out of the house and have dinner with my daughter and her husband. I didn't want to hurt her feelings by not going.

The entire time we talked about them, They are starting a cruise to the Bahamas tomorrow, and we talked about their jobs, and the new baby. Normally, that would have been good for me. Today it wasn't. It just hurts sometimes when I see other couples so happy, and I'm hurting so bad I don't even want to live anymore. It's just craziness, and I still feel so out of place and disoriented.

After dinner, I couldn't stand the thought of coming back to the empty, hot house, aka triggerville. So I went to the movies alone, because no one was available to go. Just the thought of going to the movies alone on my anniversary, brought me to tears, for the first time today, in my car on the way there. I had to stop the car and cry. Then I went on to the movies.

I'm having the most difficult time understanding how my stbx can hurt me like this again. Him doing this, again, is the worst pain I've ever experienced. The other day he implied, in his maddening covert jabs, how happy he will be on the day we're officially divorced.

I just finished another crying jag after returning from the movies. I feel so lost and down, and so sick of putting one foot in front of the other. I'm mad at the so called God who is suppose to protect me. I don't feel I've ever been protected. My husband may have just as well left me for dead. I wouldn't mind if I didn't wake up tomorrow. I wouldn't have to feel this anymore.

Now cut that out MJ. Its possible your WH just couldn't handle a real live women of your caliber.

8 affairs? Ok now thinking of how many years I went thruough my late wifes wacky crap, and how painful it was to watch her kill herself with drugs and cause so much turmoil with all of us family members I understand why God took her home.

It was partially for the protection and healing of those so abused by her selfishness.

Yeah after 8 affairs and knowing how you loved him so much, and his inability to be a real flesh and blood human being with his fantasy crap, I know God is protecting you from a death of 1000 cuts.

Sorry you had such a crappy dive on the rollercoaster and BTW, I am right with ya on the 4% on the relationship map. Not only do I aspire to do all the things mentioned at that stage, I allways did lol. All thats missing is the happy part. Well of course that will take time,,, and someone someday.

I believe you have what it takes also.

Maybe this will help..
A long time ago when my first marriage broke up there was this couple I knew that made a referance to me being a "head case" because I was so messed up over it and all the drama.

The guy was a kinda ignorant smart butt and his GF was a coke head. I put up with them for God knows what reason but mostly I was freinds with his younger brother, so it goes without saying I didn't have lots of respect for them anyways..

One day one of them called me "Head case" in an attempt to embarass me. I responded with.."Well I know, but you don't understand, you have to have something going on in your head for it to be a "case""

Many guffaws from the rest of the crowd.

This will swing the other way and you will level out just try to remember that with this deep capacity you have to feel crappy and lost you also can just the opposite, anchored and alive.

God is in the redemption business and don't you forget it. I'll pray that He will give you the man of your dreams when enough time passes who will be the one who ,buy, and builds with you.

Go punch a pillow and take a breath. ((((hugs))))

I went through this once when I was living in Louisianna. I adopted the mindset of a lizard in the desert. I found a spot, and didn't move. Unlike the lizard though, I had a large window fan to help me out. But, there's no getting around the humidity. I think that is AC's biggest contribution down there.


Repeat after me: "That, was a hard day for me. That is ok. I feel these emotions. Now I can let them go."


Silver-lining alert! Whenever you doubt your abilities as a partner in life, remember this day. While I understand we develop a different connection with our children than we do with another adult, I think the two are very closely related. At the same moment you are in pain, you fight it to attempt to bring/experience joy with someone else. And I'm not eluding to being "compliant" or anything like that. That to me is genuine. Where has your STBXDA been through all of this? Has he even paid attention to his children? I don't recall hearing anything of the like...

NOTE: DA in STBXDA = Dumbazzzzz


I'll allow those remarks. I will not invalidate them, and say that they're "wrong" or "useless". But, and I'm trying to listen to my own advice here, you've got to stop taking stock of your life in the low points. I know that you're having a hard time with your Faith right now. He knows that. Everyone that sees that, including Him, understands why. Like CP said, He's not in the business of dumping [on] you.

This too shall pass.



I singled this one out from above for a reason. This is one of the feelings I can relate to the most. The fact that my STBXWW is STILL in the house, and making next-to-zero movement on getting out; all the while still engaging in realtionships (of which are worse than ours was)...I find it incomprehensible. She'll state to me that she doesn't want to "be here" and that the house feels so "strange"...yet, will not move. Not into a friend's house, not in to OM#4's house. Well, OM#4's parents' house... And yet, she's still expecting me to treat her with respect. Mind boggling.

The point of that ramble... He's WORSE off than you are. It may not look like that. Outwardly he's "being happy". Inwardly...not so much. He's running, because he can't face what he's helped create. Much like my STBX. The sad thing is...you can only run from yourself for so long.

Thanks for trying to cheer me up guys. I'm trying....

Although I woke up with the same hurt and heaviness that I went to bed with. I was ticked that I even woke up, because I prayed last night that I wouldn't. It's a emotional pain that hurts so much, I can feel it physically. It's like I am so numb with pain, it's hard to function. I've been in this place before, and it's really hard to climb out of it.

I so need for all of this to be over, so I can truly move on. All of these setbacks are draining, and it makes me wonder if I'll ever feel ok again.

My entire world is just so off. Nothing feels normal, good, or safe. Even though divorces, and aholes are common, none of this feels normal to me. It feels sick and twisted. I think of my stbx and I feel the presence of evil incarnate. Stbx's new religion doesn't believe there are evil forces out there, just people making mistakes. He has the perfect religion to hide behind.

I'll have to come back another time to reply to the other posts. I'm trying to keep in mind what C.P. and Itsa are telling me. I think I've passed around some of the same advice, that I need to take. Some days are just harder than others I guess.

I'm at work and it's busy here right now, so I have to go. Thanks again. It was nice to read the words this morning that gives me stuff to contemplate for my healing.

O.k., I just had to jump back on here real quick to say that STBXDA made me laugh a little.

Back later to answer questions. Thanks for the smile.

MJ, I can SO relate to everything you said....including the part about not wanting to wake up. I won't offer trite remarks or gloss over your pain, I know how real it is all too well. All I can do is offer my empathy and hope that you know that you are not alone in your pain..... =(

MJ-

I'm so sorry you are having a hard time right now. We have to have hope that our situations will get better, don't you think? Isn't hope what drives us? I hoped my STXWH would stop his IB's- he didn't. I hoped we could focus on us- my STXWH didn't. I think sometimes the mistakes WE, myself included, we group others actions as something we hope for, when really THEY are the ones that needed to have that hope or faith in the rules of the marital game. That if followed things would be different.

Honestly, I'm back to my thought process of the only person you can truly count on is yourself. It's sad, but I control my actions, I know what I do that is harmful or loving. I choose to have hope that one day it will be better- even if just a tad better.

I see so much change in you from years ago, when you were mopey. I was Amartini. I remember going round and round with WS. I remember hearing what he said- as if I was speaking to my own spouse. They are alot alike. I remember the resentment in you- I don't hear that anymore. We are both changing as a result of being in long term relationships with people who really didn't want them. It hurts and its hard. But I believe we will both emerge different and better women.

And I really hope one day I can honestly trust another man. It's just darn scary.

hugs to you. here's wishing you lived in texas, were we could have an iced tea and chat for hours.

MJ, I haven't posted to you in a while, so I hope you don't think I'm jumping in to pile on.

I can so relate to how you're feeling. My heart goes out to you.

By the same token, I'm reminded of the advice I was given: If you're going through hell, don't stop. Just keep going!

The wonder of this place is that we read each others' stories and see how the change and growth and recovery comes to us all. Some "get it" quicker, others more slowly. But we "get it."

I like to think that focusing on the path ahead and not looking at the road we've traveled helps in that regard.

We have all been dealt deep, painful wounds. But they are not fatal. We still breathe. We still live! Our healing begins the moment we stop scratching at the scab. You can get better, MJ. You will get better!

Ditto.

I am depresssed that I am depressed, Ashamed that I made a mistake and ashamed because I am ashamed. Still trying to figure out where I went wrong, was there just one more simple single thing I could have seen, done, sacrificed, that would have prevented this heartache, this catastrphe, this great loss. It must either be my fault one way or another in some judgement I made.

But that is way to much for one person to handle, or figure out, or continue to bear emotionally. Of course you feel like you just want to hand in your ticket, everybody will be fine without me, nobody really needs me, the life ins will pay my bills and bury me.

As a man I no longer provide for my family, have a place in society that is visiably productive that serves people and pays taxes, and at 54 I hurt phyically most the time, cannot work a full time job and I blame myself for poor choices also that I am where I am.

But you see that is all Bullchit. Just like the politician or leader or anybody who has a position leading and serving others they would be nothing without others sorrows and tribulations in life. We all need each other and different people with different roles at different times also. I will crawl out of this hole with the proper support and thinking that brings about the proper actions, if I just don't give up.

I was known for being a resilient hard working rebounding type of man, but when it comes to my wife and children, and the marraige before God and my conscience, that really floored me. It didn't help that my wife used scripure in half truths to manipulate me into thinking it was my fault, sort of "gaslighting with JEE-sis", but God sees thru all that and was still there for me in the midst of all of it, even if I was foolish enough to cling to her instead of Him at times, in the emotionlly powerful place that had ahold of me. It confused my relationship with God internally. In that too I guess the only way I would be set free was that she was taken away by her own powerful free-will choice to rebel. Teenagers go through that, and are able to survive it because they are young and healthy, but adults must get real.

We need you MJ, and not because you have to prove something and lead us all out of the shadows, or to cry in our beer with and vent negativity and stay in that place either. Its just you. Every mistake you make and every victory nobody can replace you in your families life or even in ours. You are unique and loved with all your scars as God is molding your character. You can trust that on the other side is all of the promises God made for you, balance, peace, happiness and prosperity because you are not a renter your a buyer of those things that are so valuable in life, as a matter of fact you know without them life has no meaning. Like Itsa says the pain is just part of the separation. There is more one the other side of all this.

Layman would sit back and be able to say, "Jeez CP, What in the world do you miss about your late W? She was an unrepentant serial cheater, drank herself into an early grave, and hurt you so deeply that you drove your health and self-image into the ground?" But yet it still hurts and there is withdrawal because we can become addicted to even emotional abuse.

God, fate, the stars, whatever you want to call it, has seperated us from the negative aspects our spouses brought into our life with all the BS we bought into about how we/they were special and loved us. Maybe for a time they acted like they did, and we wanted to believe with them for a better future built on integrity and honesty and making our lives together, but they went off the reservation so to speak, returning to childish things, and twisting and spinning it in thier own minds that it was our fault, and they want us to belive it or else.

So we would not stoop that low, or embrace thier new God, but for awhile we feel our God has abandoned us, but isn't that really our God/beliefs just seperating us from evil? Isn't that all about protection of what is truly valuable to us as human beings?

I have been on this post so long now I forget if there was anything else I wanted to say..Mostly I wanted to tell you again like in my first post I can relate to the deep depression, the funk so black you don't think you will ever, or beleive you deserve, that you will get out of it. How God must have abandoned you, you must be doomed to walk here and its your fault somehow, that your destined to suffer the rest of your days and he might as well take you home peacefully and have mercy on you. Yeah I know that pain and have visited that depression on and off for years, and when things finnaly came to a head and I knew WW was about to reap what she had sowed as she was dieing, I still loved her emotionally so much I had nightmares and and sunk even deeper for months after her passing.

Its so important who we hitch our wagons to in life that God gives us vows on how to survive and thrive in the process. Each word is powerful, cherish, forsake above all others, until death do we part. Because of that I know He has more for all of us in the area of healing and buying back our lives for us, redeeming our broken dreams and tranforming the ashes into something new and beautiful where we can hold our heads high because we made it through the storms in our souls. It a brave new life and He will be there as the truths remain the same but we see them with new eyes and purpose and rejoice that he has protected us even from ourselves and concepts of love that have let us down.

I am certain He won't let us down and still have a lot to learn and experience that is good in this life, all I have to do is agree with him.