I suspect this family is grieving an intrauterine fetal demise.
Saddest thing ever.
But, I could be wrong.

I believe that it was actually a molar pregnancy.

That's when conception takes place and then almost immediately the placenta starts growing rapidly. The baby dies very quickly, but the symptoms of pregnancy continue.

The out-of-control placental tissue must be removed very carefully and anything that's left can recur and may even be cancerous. The woman must avoid pregnancy for some time after pregnancy, too, because the possibility of recurrence.

Oh, yes.
I don't believe Mopey mentioned how many weeks this pregnancy was ....

Thanks guys
That happened to my mom also when I was ten
I just didn't understand the terminology

Hey C.P., I think it's great you can do all that technical stuff, and help out a friend in the process. When my stbx was here, I was always impressed that he would figure out how to fix different things. Me, I'd just see some of the small tools and say stuff like "that's so cute", and what's that thingamagig?". Now, it's looks like I'm going to have to figure that stuff out.

Changing subject....

I'm sorry if I confused you about my daughter. I read back over my stuff and I can see how you were confused by what I said. On Monday morning, during her routine pregnancy exam, they saw that the baby was not alive. At that point, I said she lost the baby. They actually did a D&C yesterday in the hospital to take the baby, and tissue out.

Kirby, Pep, C.P., She had a partial Molar pregnancy, and Kirby was right about all of this......




She was starting her 13th week of pregnancy when she got the news. The baby was probably dead a month ago.

She's doing ok today. She was able to get out a bit today to go to her inlaws house with the puppy. I was glad to hear that.

WARNING: SOAP BOX

Me...I am so down and hurt I feel numb, and have since yesterday. I can't cry. I'm back to not wanting to do anything at all. The depression is not just about the baby, but hurting so bad over everything.

I am SO angry right now that stbx tried to convince me he wasn't going to be dragged off by some other woman again, was ticked that I didn't trust him, spent 4 yrs trying to REcover in a very painful situation, only to have it all end up like this because he thought another woman was the answer. If I had any idea that this was the man he was, I could have saved myself the last 4 years of crazymaking. I would have been recovered by now probably. At this moment, I hate his actions, his twisted logic and thoughts, and the complete and total cruelty and disrespect he has shown me. I do NOT like being angry. I hate him, and because of that I constantly have to work on forgiveness towards a man who is not remorseful for this damage in the slightest. Not an easy task to forgive.

I'm getting to the point where I am petrified about my finances, and shouldn't be going anywhere for fun if I want to eat later. Due to my depression and the finances, I think I'm going to have to cancel the big canoe trip for this Saturday. So, the situation with the finaces isn't helping my mood either.

Changing subject again.

I just received notice today that mediation is scheduled for July 5th.

There's nothing worse to me than going through a process that is expensive, time consuming, will put me in the poor house, make me single, and all against my will.

Do not forgive the man who has stabbed you in the back. Repeatedly.
And he is still wielding the knife!

Are you NUTS?

You are in survival mode.
SCREW HIM !

Every ounce of my being wants to listen to this advice.

I don't share any of my forgiveness with stbx, but when I feel SO angry, I don't feel at peace, so I try to go straight to forgiveness. I'm actually scared of my anger at him. If I let my anger out, although I have never done any of this, and would never do any of this, this is what I think about....

None of his stuff that is still here would be in one piece.

His car would have been beaten to a pulp with axes.

I would expose the [censored] he is to all 108 of his facebook friends, and his family too and not to get him back into the marriage. It wouldn't be like the exposure letters you see on MB.

He'd be in the hospital with broken bones if I could afford a thug.

I'd tell him just what I thought about him to his face, in the lobby of his office.

A lot of my depression is from repressed anger, and it helps when I forgive. It really never leaves me happy though. Just sad and borderline accepting. Acceptance is important because I cannot change what is happening.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

I see.

OK

What you are talking about is not forgiveness. What you are talking about is releasing the outcome. And acceptance.

You can do that!

There is so damn much on your plate. Just tend to what is necessary.

BIG HUGS !

Im with Pep,

I was talking to my IC, and I told her I have a hard time explaining to my kids why Mom hurt me so bad..

"Yes my wife was another human being with weaknesses as all of us have, but to try and protect her reputation with the children means I have to absorb, or let go, the issues. Now I will absorb them if I have to to spare them the pain of living through them, but I will not forgive her for her crap she did to me, or how she screwed up herself and the children also."

"Niether will I let myself off the hook in getting over it by the same token. Yes the Same sense of value. Its like "Hate the sin and not the sinner" but ramped up to "You are what you do".
She represents a very painful person in my life, becuse of what she has done and how she has acted. A Mom or Dad might say to a child, "Are you a thief?. Then don't act like one!" "

" She acted a certain way and it effected me a certain way. We are as we do. Thats who she was to me, and unless I realize that I will not get any better myself. Why would I bother unless there was some accountability laid somewhere? So no I do not forgive her actions, and to me that IS who she was to me."

"I don't want to lay all that at my childrens feet though, because I promised myself they would not suffer like I did, and I would take the bruises for them. It was not thier problem as much as it hurt me and not something I even want them to understand the depth of crap I went through, otherwise, in what way had I protected them from the pain, only for them to experience it and pay for it anyways?"

We are all adults here MJ, and we know what he did was vile and low. Call a spade a spade and let this serial two year old feel the full force of your wrath, at least here its totally understood.

In your heart, dang right SCREW HIM!

Hmmmm.....when I'm angry at him for the painful domino effect his actions have, I have a hard time accepting all of the repercussions, and I get stuck.

When I try to look at him as a weak, sick, lost, individual and try to forgive him, I can accept things a little easier.

So maybe it's a little of both? Forgiveness and acceptance?

It's a challenge to see him as I described above though.

I've always been conflicted with these two quotes. So, which is it? I think the Bible backs up the first quote. What about the 2nd one?

Stbx says there's no wrong or right. Which means there is no sin to him, right? I should put that one in the "stupid things waywards say" thread. I wonder if he says that when he does his taxes. I wonder if he believes in the 10 Commandmants anymore. HE is the one that told me a few years ago that all anyone really needs from the Bible is the 10 Commandments. He must be practicing cognitive dissonace to justify himself again.



Sometimes, when I'm not in a forgiving mood, I do wished HE would FEEL the full force of mine and God's wrath. For now, I'll just have to share mine here, where's it's safe.

I would love nothing more than to SEE him learn some lessons while he's still here on this earth. So far, there is no justice in this world as far as I'm concerned. You can't feel loss if you value nothing.

I would say yes to this, and the time it will take to process it.

I see my late W as the same, a weak, lost, sick, individual, feels like, "well what do you expect?" Later what she did was just as painful..

Look at it this way, you don't put scorpions in your bed becuse you want to have a relationship with them, then blame them when they bite you, and then not shake the little buggers out and kill them if you have to. I suppose you could feel sorry for them and forgive them because they don't know better..but the sting will still hurt for awhile.

So in time yes you will have to accept and see him as a fool, lost, messed up, person to have some peace, and the anger turned inward which in sometimes deppression will still be burning the fires of reason in your mind. But again its time that works this out, and eventually you will be able to tell the scorpion to stay away from you because you know his nature, and that he can't help it. It won't feel so personal. He will just be another bad dog on the street.

I'm sorry you have to go through this also. I think it is what happens to those who have been with serial cheaters and stayed with them way to long. They are so used to forgiving and putting things behind them they forgot that in life they really did not start signing up for abuse, they just learned to accept it along the way..

You are doing good MJ, keep up the good work.

I would agree with time + forgivness + acceptance + taking care of yourself = healing.

Problem is, negative emotions take up 80% of your energy, so I can sometimes only do a little of the above. And that means that healing isn't coming as fast as I'd like. There's been a lot of abuse to heal from, and it's still coming constantly. Feels like one step forward and three steps back at this point.

I do get mad at myself for accepting his level of care for me for as long as I have. The only thing I can say to myself about that is that I was where I was at the time, and I am where I am now. At least I'm trying to become healthy, although at a snails pace it seems. It's like walking through the fire, and it's painful.

The way I see it, I am doing exactly as I set out to do 4 yrs ago. Fix the marriage or get out. I just didn't realize what a nightmare that was going to be.



This is such a GREAT analogy. It really helps me to see him this way. If I have to lay eyes on him during the divorce process, or ever, I will try to remember to make this connection, this visual. It DOES help me to not take his stings so personally.

....Shrug, he could say the same about me when I would lose my temper and yell at him. That always hurt him, he said. It didn't matter to him why I was yelling. I do hold myself accountable for that though. That was back in my stage of trying to get him to hear me I thought, at all cost. My taker was in full swing after what I considered offenses. He heard me. He just didn't care about MY happiness. I fought hard for what I needed, just in the wrong way. I should have just quietly filed the divorce the first time, 4 yrs ago, when he wasn't interested in negotiating my needs, my happiness. Oooh, that took a detour.



Agreed. I did learn to accept it along the way. It was easy. I grew up in a wildly abusive situation. I wished we could have stopped the cycle of abuse a long time ago. I know we both wanted to badly. I just think there was so much hurt, resentment, and lack of coping and relationship skills, and of course...one of the parties baild. But....yada yada yada.

It brings me back to the whole university of life map. One day, I hope to get to the mature love stage, and I resent that it'll be cut short for me now. Hard to do without someone mature enough to understand that map. I wonder what "grade" I'm in in this university. I sure as hayul hope I'm at least getting close to graduating. Well, not if that means it's time to die.




Thanks C.P. So are you if you're able to share the wisdom you have with me.

As far as I know niether of them come from the good book verbatim..I was talking to the IC in the manner I must deal with the combination of how screwed up W was and comparing it to what my reaction must be. Yes she was a lost messed up woman whom I allowed to walk all over me in the name of "Lurve". As soon as I laid down for this woman she took full selfish advantage and all the crocadile tears meant nothing in her conscience, except more fuel for justification.

So yeah I knew she was unstable, and got my beatin, like I deserved, over time, trying to forgive and forget..oh it must be my fault again..forgive and forget...what did i do now....forgive and forget..she belongs to the church and knows the bible..forgive and forget..she is in tears for all theses people at times...forgive and forget...God will save us if we I just can make enough money and work harder...Stuff I should have put my foot down..again..I mean insist or leave about, and instead pushed myself to limits God never intended me to. I was right the first time I was takin her crap for to long when I put my foot down.

What escapes me is how stubborn and selfish she was and how she never learned that God was not gonna change the world and how it works for her, and that that was OK, because she was in it it with all the rest of us mere mortals. she just never learned that, or should I say she was taught never to accept that. But thats another story.

Damn digressed lol. Ok well I was telling IC I was not going to figure it out anymore, she did what she did and it effected me like this, thems the facts and I will deal with them instead of the massivly foggy why she did them. Or what happened..I was saying I wanted to be done with that.

as far as the sayings.. The first one says in effect,"They are effected by a sin nature, which is not clear to them, nor do they understand the consequences they will suffer" Basically forgive them

The second one brings things into reality, because talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words, and all the lamenting about how you didn't mean it, or didn't know that would happen, doesn't get anything good done. "I wish I could..."is just hot air. So to most of the realists in the world, put your money where your mouth is.., or,

Matthew 6:21
King James Version (KJV)


21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. or,

Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

I used to believe, that if someone knew the difference between right and wrong, that they could speak the words defining the difference, that they had at least a chance of accually doing right instead of wrong. Well i wonder that now if I was even more nieve<sp> than I knew this could be before. Some people just talk as window dressing with no intention to do what is right unless somebody is looking. What is even more amazing though is that thier word means nothing, which means there thoughts have no depth of character, which brings us down to the obvious conclusion that they don't respect themselves very much. I was brought up with the strict discipline of "Say what you mean and mean what you say!" drummed into me as a little kid. Lol, Who can argue with that wisdom?

These people are vapors that never follow through with what they say, and in effect never get things accomplished under there own steam. Everything done is for the benifet of showing others how good they are, and if they cannot accomplish that they wont follow though because it does not benifet them.

Personal accoutability and pride. When nobody else sees it do you do a good job anyways? So there is the best I can do to describe what I meant about you are what you do. I was talking about people only needing to recognize what you do beyond what you say you want to, and being accountable for your position and mistakes and cleaning up your own messes, and doing it becuase YOU know its right.


Man yeah put it in the Stupid things to come out of a waywards piehole thread rofl.Have you ever wrote them down and had them handy to bounce your thoughts off of them to see which ones you might be breaking ATM? Its impossible to satisfy the law. What is really sad is that some people wont accept that they cant be perfect so they throw out the whole package.

[quote Call a spade a spade and let this serial two year old feel the full force of your wrath, at least here its totally understood.
[/quote]


But if you value nothing you have nothing also. You will see in time how his world is really empty, as he hides from what people value and the world runs out of grace for him. His juvenile ways and what he values for security will run out on him again. I am trusting you will be one of those wise people who realize in time that this is the best thing he has done for you when you hear about him in ten years, and you will be able to pray for him without it breaking your heart. Nobody hides from God or the consequences he is bringing down on himself and his family. Just look around and read on here or the statistics in the world. Without exception justice is served, they might have more comfort as they go down and look good, but they are still empty inside and they don't even know it.

Your right though MJ, if he didn't value you, DS, DD, and your marriage he doesn't know what is valuable, and there is Gods judgement, he can't be part of that Kingdom.
[/quote]

Well don't take this the wrong way lol, but I would rather be the not-so-wise person who couldn't comprehend all this crap rather than the two people helping to heal from different bad marriges together on this forum. Ignorance is bliss.

Just make sure to take your time as you ease out of all this. remember that you have been effected deeply and some things are still gonna come out over time. Just don't rush yourself and have patientce with yourself also.

MJ you can meet someone when you are 60 and hit that 4% mark in the tree. Its attitude not apptitude. I know who wants to be alone if its not nessesary right? Then again why rush anything? Life is good.

Thank you for the thought out replies C.P. However, I'll have to come back. It's late and I'm tired.

Good night.

I so understand where you are coming from here. I have said the same darn thing. But here's the deal, if we had chosen to leave 4 years ago would we be sitting back saying "oh did I do EVERYTHING I could have done. What if I did blah blah..."

I've had this conversation with myself and it NOW goes like this. I stayed bc I wanted to do everything I knew how to do to save the marriage. I worked hard. I became stronger. I learned I was valuable enough and eventually strong enough to say, "It hurts when you eat lunch with the female co-worker. You have my heart, please do not stab it. Please understand when you do this your stabbing me. I need you to protect it." When he said no...I will not hurt a co-worker...no... I will not put you and the family ahead of the job (by coming home by 6pm 2 nights a week)... I finally (very recently) ACCEPTED that he will not be able to give me what I need- bc he is choosing not to do it. He is capable- bc I have lived it with him- it's a poor choice on his part.

So I think our part is to just accept that our stxwh are who they are. It sucks. It hurts. Somewhere something changed. They are who they are.

They may say words that make us momentarily feel better, but their actions speak way louder. That was something valuable I held onto after his A... look don't listen...

bc mine stxwh was much like CP described about people doing whats right or wrong and smoke screens... he was brought up the same way... his family is all about appearances and how they look to others...and they ALL bail when things aren't running smoothly.

Forgiveness... hmmm.... that's is so hard... to forgive them we need to release them from the prison we keep them in, set them free for their crimes.... well here's the way I see it right now- I will set him free from his crime- but I'm still in a "punishment" phase... like the just compensation... and right now my JC is going to be financially through this D process... JC in that financially I desire to not struggle, to feel security for myself and my boys, for them to not suffer too much with too many changes...

his own personal punishment from his own actions are his to live...kinda like when you show up late for work your docked pay... when you walk out of a M and your kids you aren't here daily- your no longer in the "circle of trust at 1309 (house #)" I'm sure one day he will wake up and feel his punishment... their fantasy worlds will end sooner or later, and honestly we may never know about it.

have a great day MJ

OMG don't think you have to respond to everything I post lol
A lot of what I say is just food for thought

I have remembered things other people have told for years and never thanked them

Also you must remember I have the MB monkey on my back

I need to post. Don't go there....it's a scary. Addiction...

Ttyl and be sure to get your rest

{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}{MJ}{MJ's DD+SIL}


I am so sorry for what has happened MJ! Even now, I cannot imagine going through it. But, I'll agree with CP. That young innocent soul is with God.

About to head home, but I'm going to make a few quick "off the top of my head" replies...

1. With respects to the purchase of the dog, it is a distraction/coping mechanism. Both pros and cons. Not that it needs to be brought up now to DD, but please watch out for any resentment that may build. But, the entire situation is understandable.

2. STBX: I'm right there with ya, but we have to stop trying to figure out "why". We've done what we can, and can hold our heads high. We believe that as buyers, we will become better people and will continue to learn how to achieve what we want in life. So let's keep doing that, ok?

3. I recently got back into this band, Mumford & Sons. You mentioned a few days back that you were numb again. You also mentioned on my thread that when you cried after reading my "poem", that was a good thing. This band moves my heart like no other. The music itself is amazing. And Marcus Mumford's lyrics, combined with his voice, will cut through your numbness.



MJ, you are not alone in this. As brothers and sisters, we will hold your hand.