.

My vote is yes.

It's a tough one when you try to have compassion for the WS in this case though. So, instead of my human self making that judgment call, I refer to the 10 Commandments. I don't think it said "Thou shalt not committ adultery, unless there's a mental illness".

Just sayin'.

You must be kidding, you are on Marriage Builders promoting adultery? What kind of a monster commits adultery on their ailing spouse? That is a special kind of callous and cruel. What kind of a person commits adultery when their spouse lay dying?

There is no excuse for adultery and having an ailing, dying spouse is even LESS of an excuse.

How does this entitle him to commit adultery? Is there an adultery entitlement that the rest of us don't know about? What other situations qualify for this special adultery entitlement?

.

First off, he is not a "nice gentleman" he is a pig. Here is what Dr Harley told a young man who came here in despair at his father's adultery while his mother lay dying of cancer:

From "dad is cheating on mom with cancer" here

Why is this even a question? What is the right thing to do?

What part of "...for better or worse, in sickness and in health, 'til death do us part" isn't clear?

.

Hopefully live with integrity and keep my vows.

I too think it's cruel to cheat on your spouse, especially if they're ill. Doesn't mean I don't have compassion for the WS, but it doesn't make it right.

How would that be grounds for divorce? I would like to see you defend divorcing a spouse just because they are ill. How would you defend that?


How sad that he betrayed your mother in her time of need. Was your mother aware of his betrayal?

You seem to believe that an inability to meet a spouse's needs is grounds for adultery or divorce. I would like to see you defend that.

I know you weren't talking to me, but thought I'd throw some more of my two cents in.



Fred's quote already addresses this....

How does that change the principle he espoused? The principle would be the same whether it was 1 year or 30 years. Adultery is adultery no longer how long your spouse is sick. And abandonment of a sick spouse is still abandonment whether it happens 1 year or 30 years after that spouse falls sick.

What you are espousing is betrayal of the worst kind. It is one thing to betray a healthy, competent spouse, but to betray an ill spouse? That takes a special kind of selfishness and depravity.

Cypress, if you care about this jackhole, I would encourage him to not betray his wife, his conscience and his decency. Why degrade himself in his last years? Rather, I would encourage him to do the decent thing and stand by his wife. Happiness is the result of being good, not bad. Being bad never brings anyone anything more than a cheap, fleeting thrill and then the ole conscience kicks in. Why spend your last years acting like a pig?

I found a Harley article that addresses this subject:


What to Do with an Emotionally
or Physically Disabled Spouse

Letter #2

Dear Dr. Harley,
My wife suffers from Multiple Sclerosis. She has had the disease for seventeen years and is confined to a wheelchair. As you know, Multiple Sclerosis is a progressive disease and can, and probably will get even worse. Having an affair has crossed my mind lately.

My question is, how does the healthy spouse cope with unmet needs when there is no hope for the disabled spouse to meet them?

A.K.



Dear A.K.
I've noticed that people are more likely to divorce a spouse that they think can meet their needs, but won't, than they are likely to divorce a spouse that can't meet their needs. Furthermore, they are more likely to have an affair when they think their spouse could have met their need, but didn't.

It's not just the unmet need that leads people to affairs and divorce: It's also the perception that their spouses could have done a better job if they had wanted to.

So when I counsel someone who is married to a disabled spouse, and is considering an affair or divorce, I am curious to know what that person thinks his or her spouse could have done for them when in a position to do it.

Are you resentful over problems you may have had earlier in your relationship? Perhaps your wife was not as interested in you sexually as you would have liked? Or she may have shown more interest in your children or her own career than in you.

Of course, there's not much she can do about it now, but your resentment may prevent you from being emotionally bonded to her in the last years of your marriage. Don't focus your attention on the past--there's nothing you can do to change the past. Focus attention on the present and future. Integrate her into each part of your life. In spite of her disability, she is still a person who can love you. She will try to make the most of the ability that she has if you let her.

Many couples spend the last years of their marriage with at least one spouse suffering from a disability related to age. Yet, the healthy ones rarely consider an affair or divorce. Instead, they spend their last years of marriage remembering the love their disabled spouses showed them when they were healthier.

Your wife will never be healthier than she is now. I encourage you not to compare her with other women, or the way she used to be or could have been, but to look at her potential as it is today. I firmly believe that she can meet some of your emotional needs if you let her. And you will certainly give meaning to the last years of her life, as well as your own life. here

Melody,

I always enjoy reading your posts. You hit the nail on the head every time.

Yes, your right about him being a jackhole. And I will be staying far away from him.

I'm a bit concerned about your view of my dad's situation. I'd like to see it with more clarity.

Things are very black and white at marriage builders. If your married and stray its adultery. If both people are single its not. It should be that way, because poor boundaries are catalyst for adultery.

My mother was incapable of expressing love, holding a cogent conversation or remembering who we were. Maybe the answer was divorce, maybe not. No one in my family could understand why he never did it. He died of an aneurism at age 49. My mother lived till she was 70.

Maybe my dad was a monster, or maybe he was just trying to do the best he could.

Thanks

Thanks Cypress. I agree that things are very black and white at Marriage Builders, because its concepts are based on sound logical, moral principles. You don't find much of the gray fuzzy thinking that keeps some of our culture in a state of confusion. Thankfully.


If your dad committed adultery he was not doing the best he could, he was doing his worst. Like yours, my father was a cheater too. Nothing to be proud of for sure.

Melody,

Thank you

I don't disagree.

Cypress

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cypress}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Emotional needs are not things you die without. Like breathing oxygen. Emotional needs are things you "need in order to be in love." Not things you need "in order to stay alive."

The "in order to" part is very important for a lot of reasons. This is one of them. Another reason we often see is when someone's spouse is in withdrawal they often claim they have some bogus emotional need like "time alone." Time alone may be something someone needs for some reason, and they may be emotional about it, but since it never makes anyone fall in love it is not something they need "in order to be in love" and hence it is not an emotional need.

You need to eat, right? Well, not really ... I have known of people who have deliberately starved themselves to death for various reasons. To establish the context of the need there has to be an "in order to" phrase. You need to eat "in order to stay alive." If you don't want to stay alive, you don't need to eat.

You need eggs. Well, not really. You can get along without eggs just fine. Some people never have eggs at all. But you need eggs "in order to make an omelet," right? There's just not much of a way to make an omelet without eggs. Again, context. What do you "need" the need "in order to" do?

You need intimate conversation, recreational companionship, sexual fulfillment, and affection, right? Well, you only need those things "in order to" be in love with the person providing them. You certainly don't need them "in order to stay alive" or "in order to not go nuts and start shooting people." Plenty of people in unfulfilled marriages don't get these.

I something think Dr. Harley may have confused us a bit with the term "emotional needs." He might as well have called them "emotional flowers" or "emotional buttons." They are the things that, when you have them, you feel fulfilled and feel in love with the person providing them, and when you do not have them, you feel frustrated. Push each other's "emotional buttons," and you'll fall in love with each other. Leave the buttons unpushed, and while you'll feel frustrated, it is not so serious that you must have them at all cost or risk dying or sacrificing your mental health.

He certainly does. I hear him address long term illnesses regularly, including Alzheimers and dementia. I heard him address MS just the other day.


Fidelity is also an option.

I have faced some pretty severe long-term non-need meeting in my marriage. I chose fidelity.