I copied the post by School bus over here Pep

clear and to the point and right on..


Thats so true BTW, relationships are conditional.

I LOVE MUMFORD AND SONS... MJ you are not alone.... I know I've said this before I so wish we lived closer... I'm thinking a road trip is in order...

I am so thankful for these boards bc I often think, OMG I was married to the man of my dreams that turned out to make my nightmares come true, then I read things that istsname post and I think OMG there are good men out there...I have to have faith that one day I will stumble upon a good decent man that is actually in it for the long haul... I pray that for you too MJ

I have faith that one day, we will all recover and be able to move on to a healthy relationship... hugs to all

havingfaith

Good morning MB family,

It's Saturday morning, and I'm slowly waking up with my coffee. I had nightmares last night about stbx and the OW and woke up hurting. I think those particular nightmares were a direct result of too much thinking about stbx yesterday. HE STILL HAS NOT REACHED OUT TO MY DAUGHTER. The D.A. ([censored]) even posted on his FB page a week ago about how "the best thing we can do for God and humanity is to become the best people we can be". Image making, lying, [censored].

It's hard to believe I was married to such a cold hearted [censored]. He's becoming the best [censored] he can be.

I'm really proud of my daughter for trying to pull herself up. Yesterday, her and a friend took their puppies to the beach. I'm very happy about that. I know she is hurting badly, you can hear it in her voice. But she's a fighter, like me.

About 10 days ago, I exposed stbx, via e-mail, to this new OW and her kids. You know what I think is funny? Stbx had the nerve to tell me once that I would have still married him, had I known how he cheated on me the whole time we were dating, and engaged. I wanted to beat him to a pulp for that comment.

Well....his new OW now knows that she's in the line of women that he has cheated on me with. So, if she stays with him, she's the fool I'd say. Stbx would probably twist it to say "well, I didn't cheat on the OW". Doesn't matter. He is STILL currently a cheating D.A., and she's with him. I'm also going to assume that the OW is a D.A. too, if she doesn't take the time to verify my story and get the hell out.

I can see it now...years down the road with the OW when things get tough, he may say to her..."well, you knew I was a lying, cheating D.A. What'd you expect from me?". He didn't have any respect for me, and I didn't even know he was a lying, cheating D.A. when I married him. OW KNOWS he's a cheating D.A. I wonder how much respect he'll have for her? I wonder how much respect she'll have for herself? Dumbasses.

I'm a bit down about not going on the canoe trip today. A lot of people went. I'll just have to wait for the next time. Today I'll be doing yard work with my son. I may attend a luau at my club later this evening. Not sure yet.

I really need to take some time this weekend, probably tomorrow, and work on a settlement agreement to give to the dark side. Mediation is scheduled for July 5th. I figure at a minimum, it's going to cost us $700 to $800 an hour for the mediation. My share is $350 an hour.

Going to grab another cup of coffee and come back to reply to some of the replies.

He's quite the narcissist.

Sounds like a scared little bully
Yeah so that's what a narcissist is then?
Well an A-hole by any other name stills smells as foul.

It seems this has become his nature MJ

Ok storytime.

There was a frog and a scorpion stuck on a log in a flood

Scorpion said to the frog. "Hey how about a ride to the shore on your back and I will tell you which way to steer?"

The frog said "But you are a scorpion and might sting me"
Scorpion said,"Why would I do that and we both would drown?"

So the frog agreed it made sense and the scorpion jumped on the frogs back and swam out in the river, when into the middle the scorpion stung the frog when he became afraid

The frog starting to become paralyzed and asked,"Why did you do that? Now we both will drown"

"I'm a scorpion, thats my nature"

Hang in there froggy

Lol....I know, right? Just last night I was thinking about how much dissonance stbx has had to use to get where he is right now. How far from his values he has gone, just to feel better about himself. The world wasn't working for him, here at home, where he was living in reality. God wasn't changing the reality for him, it was up to stbx to clean up his mess. I think God would have helped he, has stbx tried.

Since God didn't change the world for stbx, stbx changed his beliefs about God. He now sees himself as his own God. Stbx just thinks the "world is as it should be", and that his leaving and cheating is OK because "that's where he's at"...in his mind "as it should be". Pretty lame if you ask me. God doesn't say, "go fornicate if it feels good. If you do, it's as it should be".



I would say that adultery and divorce is not of God, so it must be on the evil side. So I'd have to say that stbx is the evil man, bringing forth that which is evil. He of course thinks the complete opposite. "He's becoming the best [censored] he can be".



I think stbx had to "not value me". It was too much work for him to. I couldn't feed his narcissict supply, because he had no debth of character, no integrity with me, so he ran out of steam. You're right, he couldn't run on his own steam. There's not enough to him to do that.


Yeah, pretty disheartening when you find out their words means nothing. My husband's character is mud to me. I see his "words" on facebook, and watch is actions in real life. He always was, and still is, an image making [censored]. I cannot respect that.




I'm not sure what you're asking, as it relates to me breaking them. I do know that I recently read some of the "stupidiest things waywards say thread", and my stbx IS saying a lot of those things. It helped to see that he was no different that any of the other waytards out there. Stbx is not special in that regards, like he thinks he is.

You know, MJ, for some reason this week has been hard for me when I think about my ex's relationship with our kids. I've been thinking about it a lot. I realized yesterday that when we were together he at least made an attempt at appearing to be a decent father because I expected it of him.

After we separated he stopped even trying to pretend to be a dad. What I've finally figured out is that THIS is who he really is. His world is all about himself--what he wants, what makes him feel good about himself.

Here's what my ex put on his FB page:

"There comes a time in life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh, forget the bad, and focus on the good. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living.
I borrowed this from a friend, it is so true!"

I believe it to be declaration of his attitude towards the kids. They aren't happy with the way he's been acting. It's much easier to walk away than to try to fix the problems.

Your stbx sounds a lot like mine. They are both very self-absorbed.

I have to agree. A lot of times, I'd rather still be nieve and not know from first hand experience about all the brokeness in this world. I'd love to have the innocence of a child again.



I need to remember that. The last d-day was very recent, and there is major upheaval going on in my life right now. I'm just trying to visualize that I'm anchored in the storm, and will sail off when the storm passes. I'm going to right my ship, in time.



Thanks for that C.P. Yes, after hearing it that way, I do still have the chance to hit that 4% mark. No, I do not want to rush it and try to get with someone right away. I want to heal first, so I can pick a healthy partner who is also healed.

And just fyi....I think everyone will always have some baggage. I consider "baggage" our life's story. I think it's how we handle the baggage, and what we've learned, and how we are using those learnings, and if we're stilling willing to learn, is what matters.

Most likely. However, I MAY have saved myself from a hysterectomy had I left awhile back. I MAY have even saved my marriage had I took up for myself way back then, instead of accepting the crumbs. Hell, I don't think he respected me for laying down. I know I don't respect me for that.



Yes. After 4 yrs of fighting for our marriage, and myself, I was finally able to do this too, KNOWING it was probably going to end the marriage. Good for us. Wished I would have done it MUCH sooner.



Agreed. Does it haunt you wanting to know when and why that switch flipped with them? I don't know where, when, and why, and it does haunt me. I can only guess....



We have that in common. Stbx's Mom, Dad, and Sister are ALL the same way. He comes by it honestly. I will definitely be watching out for F.O.O. issues with any potential boyfriends in the future. I am definitely in a much better place to pick a partner now, than I did back then. We're all going to have baggage. I'll be looking for the ones that actually learned from their life's lessons.



I don't know that I'm looking for punishment. Stbx always referred to "just compensation" as punishment. Of course that's wayward fog babble. I realize that now. At this point, I would be happy with "equitable and fair" in our justice system, but I highly doubt I will get it. The system has shown me that these situations are never fair and equitable.



I think stbx did punish himself a lot, and projected that onto me. May he rest in his pieces.



Thanks H.F. I hope you have a good day today.

Pep....thank you for the link to the forgiveness thread.

I took this from that thread. Quote by Schoolbus:



Good stuff, and the ONLY way for me to forgive and heal in this situation. My stbx probably thinks he is none of those adjectives mentioned in Schoolbus' post, but I beg to differ. Weak men are enticed and dragged away by their sinful thoughts. Thoughts that they allow themselves to have, fueled with entitlement. He's an addict, an admiration junkie, and doesn't see this.

{{{{{Itsa!}}}}}}

Good to hear from you!



Lol....HUGE smile, cuz I know that took a long time....lol....Can I just say again that your wife is a fool? It is apparent that you are thoughtful and giving, even in the midst of your own storm.



Thank you Itsa. I hope you never have to experience it either. Watching your child lose a child, is heartbreaking. Can I just say again how much I hate my stbx for not being there for her and S.I.L. during this time? He even supposedly liked S.I.L. Some friend he is...

Father's day is tomorrow. I SERIOUSLY doubt that the kids will acknowledge stbx in the slightest, other than the pain they will feel thinking about him as a father. Stbx will probably put them in a box and store the kids in the basement in his mind.



I was thinking the same thing too, before they bought the puppy. I just didn't have the heart to bring it up to them. Maybe I should have, but I'm sure it was probably already lingering in their minds as well. However, I will watch the situation. If I know my daughter though....she'll always have love in her heart for that puppy. What hurts me is that puppy is not their baby...and I think the puppy will remind her of that. I hope it doesn't cause resentment, but it may.



Ok, but. I think it's normal for us to process this stuff for a time, and even revisit the same things at times. However, if 5 yrs down the road I'm still trying to figure out the whys, I hope that someone will beat some sense into me.



Fyi....listening to that song was the first thing I did when I got up this morning with my coffee. It was also the first time I cried in a few days. I was starting to feel some relief, but my son walked in and I had to dry the waterworks real quick like. You sure picked a good one that time.

I'd like to utube the band later, with a glass of wine, and just cry my eyeballs out for an hour or so. I plan to do some planned grieving first opportunity I get. Thanks for that.



Yeah, that part of the song got me. So did the part about being the mother. That song definitely pushed the right buttons.

Well MJ what I meant was, did you ever try to keep every one of the ten commandments?
What thought just now ran through your head, what was the motivation, and compare it too the Law
If you take the time to really examine it, a lot of times you will find it is impossible to keep them

Of course unless we count on the one who came to fulfill them for us

Yes MJ we are gonna have a past and stuff like baggage

I agree with you on that

ROAD TRIP!!! I love road trips. You know....pages back in this thread we brought up the idea of having a MB get together, once our divorces were done. I really do want to do that. We could put all our locations on a geo map and pick a spot in the middle.

But besides the MB get together, I really would love to meet up with you sometime. You could come to Florida and stay with me for a bit, while we soak up the beaches. I could come there and get some brisket and ice tea.



See Itsa. I told you your wife was a fool.

I agree HF. I have to have faith that there are still some decent men out there. I will tell you up front and honest right now that one day, I do want to be married again. I LIKE that kind of connection and lifestyle. I'm a fun chick, I can cook, I want honesty and faithfulness in my relationships, I can play with the best of them, and I can be funny to boot, and not horrible to look at. I will be a treasure to someone one day.

I just need to finish washing the current filth off of me, so someone can see the real me. Not this wounded soul that I am now.

Hey H.F....ever think about moving to Florida? We could be roomates and "check" each other's dates.

He's textbook.

A few years ago, I remember reading the definition of a narcissist. I also remember feeling the blood draining from me, my heart sinking, when I read that narcissist aren't usually curable. Stbx may have received some counseling, which makes him think he's not a narcissist. But all the "individual" counseling did for him was make him an even bigger narcissist.

Stbx use to tell me constantly that he did all he was doing (reading new age crap and going to counseling) to "become a better man". Tell me, does anyone see him becoming a better man?

From Wikipedia:

Narcissistic traitsThomas suggests that narcissists typically display most, sometimes all, of the following traits:[21]

An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges

Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships

A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)

Difficulty with empathy

Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)

Hypersensitivity to any slights or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)

Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt

Haughty body language

Flattery towards people who admire and affirm him or her

Detesting those who do not admire him or her

Using other people without considering the cost to them of his or her doing so

Pretending to be more important than he or she is

Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating his or her achievements

Claiming to be an "expert" at most things

Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people

Denial of remorse and gratitude

[edit] Hotchkiss' seven deadly sins of narcissismHotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:[22]

Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.

Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.

Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.

Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.

Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.

Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.




It became his nature since before I met him. Every single one of these traits apply to my stbx. Every one.

I'm 99% sure he blames me for his leaving, since "he tried". He can't blame me. He was the same man before he met me, after he met me, and still is that man after he left me.



I loved that story. THIS is what I think happened in our situation. I think stbx had to hurt me, before I hurt him. Now that I think about it....I remember finding an old e-mail of his recently that said "something in him switched when he saw me filling out divorce papers". (I did land in my attorney's ofc a few times...wanting out of the hell I was in. Stbx trampled over my heart and boundaries constantly). There was no protection of me, by him. I was trying to protect myself. Hmmm....I guess I was his scorpion at the time.



I am, with a little help from my friends.

Thanks C.P.

Kirby,




I think you're right. I remember my stbx telling me a few times, after the initial d-day, that I made him want to be a better person, and that he was glad that I insisted on a better marriage. But neither us had had the skills to deal with it all, and he gave up.

In my mind, he had work to do to become a better person himself, as well as I. He's not there yet. In a lot of ways, he is still the same person who cheated on me since I met him. It's like he quit growing, and has digressed considerably. He thinks he's on this huge growing path. I don't think he's grown at all.



OMG Kirby. I should go back and copy and paste something my stbx wrote on his FB and compare to what your stbx wrote. I swear, I think he's written almost the same thing verbetim. Just goes to show that they all follow the same wayward handbook, and all it is is foggy wayward babble.

In fogese, I believe this means......

"I screwed up big time and created a ton of drama. I made my wife [censored] crazy. It's too much, I can't deal. I am going to surround myself with enablers who will tell me how wonderful I am, and make me laugh, because they won't REALLY know me. I can start fresh. I can get my narcissist supply from any ole schmoopie. I deserve to be happy, right now. My wife is [censored] crazy, and I need a schmoopie. So, I messed up and don't feel like cleaning up my messes. I deserve to be happy right now. My wife is [censored] crazy. I need my schmoopie. "

Anyone else want to give that a try? LOl......

Ya know what I want more than anything? My sense of humor back

I can't figure it out really why it seems to be missing but I am too heavy hearted. I liked it when I was more the optimist and had solutions or at least things didn't make me so heavy

I am giving myself time but lol I don't want to. It's probably the process of major life changes that put me in this place. Sometimes it's in these places God does His best work. The valleys
That's why I am here because this place gives me an intelligent and real foundation while being a place where all of us can think

Hey MJ your a posting fool today lol That's very healthy IMO and your attentiveness to everybody shows good social skills. It's been proven that is what keeps us healthy and i have seen it work with different ppl besides being generally polite

It's good isn't it to put things down on print and verify Thier weight? Sometimes just writing them gives us more clarity

Posting on I phone so if it's outta order blame apple
Again don't worry about answering all my posts but I like your commentary so feel free

Just want you to seize the day after being stuck home and missing the canoe canoe thing. Go wrestle an alligator or something :roflmao:


I think I'm gonna ask the Mods if they will email me all my posts rofl
It's would be a sorta journal

Well, I guess I am. One of gfs just called me. Her live in boyfriend doesn't want to go to the wedding that she is attending tonight alone. Her ex, and his wife and family will be there. She begged me to get dressed at the last minute to go with her. I'm going. I have one hour to figure out what I'm wearing to an evening wedding at a very nice venue in the the historic part of St. Augustine, take a shower and make it to her place. She borrowed a sports car for the event.

Wish me luck.

Yay good luck and laughs

Ok well Because I see that term you used quite often here "dissonance" and "cognative dissonance" I also looked at Wikapedia,(Lol, forgot you allready gave the defs), to see what it meant. The "sour grapes" example was the one I notice the most in people, like.."If they don't agree with me then they must be...(whatever),", as they dismiss the possibility of open discussion, or an open mind anyways. So it really is a new term for something we all experience since we were little kids.

The one I thought was interesting and might apply to very conflict avoidance types were these varients that I think also stick out in serial cheaters or their sociopathic types.

Here is a quote from the Wikapedia site here

___________________________________

Variants

An overarching principle of cognitive dissonance is that it involves the formation of an idea or emotion in conflict with a fundamental element of the self-concept, such as "I am a successful/functional person", "I am a good person", or "I made the right decision." The anxiety that comes with the possibility of having made a bad decision can lead to rationalization, the tendency to create additional reasons or justifications to support one's choices. A person who just spent too much money on a new car might decide that the new vehicle is much less likely to break down than his or her old car. This belief may or may not be true, but it would reduce dissonance and make the person feel better. Dissonance can also lead to confirmation bias, the denial of dis-confirming evidence, and other ego defense mechanisms.

Within this overarching principle, there are two main forms of dissonance: hedonistic dissonance and moral dissonance (Holland, Meertens & Van-Vugt, 2002).

Hedonistic dissonance is elicited when people act in a way which results in negative consequences for themselves. For instance, a person is late for a meeting because of traffic but could have been on time had he taken the subway.

Moral dissonance is aroused when people act in a way that causes negative consequence for others. For instance, cheating and lying.

Theory and research

Most of the research on cognitive dissonance takes the form of one of four major paradigms. Important research generated by the theory has been concerned with the consequences of exposure to information inconsistent with a prior belief, what happens after individuals act in ways that are inconsistent with their prior attitudes, what happens after individuals make decisions, and the effects of effort expenditure.

The Belief Disconfirmation Paradigm

Dissonance is aroused when people are confronted with information that is inconsistent with their beliefs. If the dissonance is not reduced by changing one's belief, the dissonance can result in misperception or rejection or refutation of the information, seeking support from others who share the beliefs, and attempting to persuade others to restore consonance.

An early version of cognitive dissonance theory appeared in Leon Festinger's 1956 book,

When Prophecy Fails.

This book gave an inside account of the increasing belief which sometimes follows the failure of a cult's prophecy. The believers met at a pre-determined place and time, believing they alone would survive the Earth's destruction. The appointed time came and passed without incident. They faced acute cognitive dissonance: had they been the victim of a hoax? Had they donated their worldly possessions in vain? Most members chose to believe something less dissonant: the aliens had given earth a second chance, and the group was now empowered to spread the word: earth-spoiling must stop. The group dramatically increased their proselytism despite the failed prophecy

______________________________________________________

Of course this is really not an unheard of phenomnea<sp> when it comes to people and how they want to believe, but it is of special interest to me because of the denial of plain truth my wife went through in her addiction issues. It seemed she allways had a biblical reason why she did not need AA, and to need AA would have been like saying God was not real, hence, automatic failure..

In every program I got to get her to go to in the late 80s early 90s, they all were asked to have a higher power, and Christ could not be it, because they said that would lead to denial issues. Now by 2000 it changed, but by the time she fully relapsed she was in so deep and getting methadone, and she also was fully justifing everything and giving up on God. She truly thought she had done everything and there was no hope. I am still baffled by this whole thing I guess. The simple answer might be that she did exactly as she wanted/felt like doing, but then again it still is a sickness is it not?

But thats where here in MB they draw a line that is solid and true about that stuff.

If it Quacks, and walks like a duck, its a duck, feed it crackers. Its just so much better anyways to let people suffer the consequences of their descisions, and to get the heck away from them ASAP.


Hope you had a great time at the wedding. I am gonna be taken out by my 20 and 23 year old boys for steak tommorow at lunch, then am invited by my DD and family to a Fathers day party.

We can carry on with our Junior Head Shrinking class some other time.

Rest well and have a great weekend all. Oh yeah HF go on a road trip and visit her for sure. I bet it will be great for you both.