WPG,

wishing you a great day with your hubby.
don't hold back, say what you wish, be who you want to be.....don't be afraid......
I like the Tubing idea, maybe 9 holes of golf.........anything that is active, smile, laugh and just have fun together..........
I'll be waiting to hear the story........

Consistency and patience.
Consistency and patience.
Consistency and patience.
Consistency and patience.
Consistency and patience.
Consistency and patience.
Consistency and patience.
Consistency and patience.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

You caught up on my little updates, WPG. Reflect on that a bit.

You have to be a zen-ninja-marriage-jedi.

How did your date go WPG?

It was OK. I had come up with several different ideas that I suggested to him and he was not enthusiatic about any of them. The one thing we agreed on was we had to eat dinner H didn't want to go too far away and we got a little of a late start, so a sit-down meal and the early movie was out, and my folks didn't want to keep DD#1 all night long. And if we went to a movie there were only 2 he wanted to see, which didn't mesh up with the ones I was interested in. We had dinner and he didn't talk a lot, I tried to keep the conversation going but most likely ended up sounding schizophrenic going from one subject to the next. He did get a little more talkative as the evening went on. After dinner we went shopping, I suggested getting some pints of ice cream and walking thru the park. We ended up getting ice cream and coming back to the house and watching a DVD. He did let me cuddle up next to him so that was good. On the one hand I was disappointed, I wanted us to try something new or do something fun and different; but on the other we did spend time together, I don't know how successful I was at making LB$ deposits but I tried. And he stayed the night (and is still here, he helped me in the yard some today and we're going to cook dinner tonight, and maybe we can get him to stay tonight too...). So I dunno, kind of a mixed bag, but it is progress!!!!

Good girl.


Remember; "Thank you."

Progress, not perfection !

Glad to hear that you are making progress:)

Wulffpack girl,

Expectations will kill you every time, for now just be happy with what is happening....
I know that is tough because you are ready, but he isn't ....
Just keep plugging away a little every day and before you know it when he doesn't see you he will miss what you give him.
This is the key, make him want the touch, the laughter just like you

WPG ....

I went away for awhile and came back to catch up on your sitch. WOW! There is progress. Yay.

You guys CAN do this. Praying for you.

Thanks for the support! I'm glad to have some "cheerleaders" here on MB, b/c I really don't have any IRL. Most everybody is pretty much of the "cut your losses and move on" vein and can't understand why I'd want to save a M where I was so "unhappy."

They don't know what I've learned about that "unhappiness," what I've learned about love & respect, meeting EN's, avoiding LB's...how H and I can be together if we follow a plan for a successful M...things I didn't know, and to be honest, even though I believe their intentions are good in thinking they only want what's "best" for me, none of them know, either.

They also don't know my H's heart, and that I refuse to believe that he's using me for SF b/c that is not who he is. They don't know the life that shaped him into the man he is, they don't understand why my betrayal is so difficult for him to move beyond.

He has also shown me that he is capable of meeting my needs in a way no one else could ever match. I refuse to believe that four months was not the "real" H, and I get that over and over from people IRL. H built a wall around himself that he maintained his entire life and for that short time, I saw the real him, the man I always knew was there...the man I'd always desperately wanted to reach but didn't know how. And like a fool, I gave up trying. Convinced myself that my efforts were futile and allowed another man to meet my ENs. If I'd found MB first instead, who knows what would have happened?

That man is still there. He's afraid. He doesn't want to allow me the chance to hurt him again. He can't believe my words because I lied so well and for so long. I understand all of that.

The hardest part of all of this for me has been letting go of expectations. I still struggle with them. I miss him, I miss the man behind that wall. The guys here on the board have talked about vulnerability - and while I love his strength, I also love his softness. I can still see the strength, but I miss the softness. But I abused that vulnerability by trying to make him believe a lie, because I was selfish and I wanted to keep him at all costs.

I'm still not getting all my EN's met the way I'd like them to be, the way I know he can. But if I can stop focusing on just the immediate present, and look back over the last 6 months, I can see the slow progress that has been made. Sometimes that's tough to do, b/c my Taker gets pretty insistent.

In the end, there's one question I want to ask him. One question, but I'm afraid to ask it. Afraid of the answer. Afraid asking it will push him more than he's ready right now. That question is, "What can I do to help you feel safe to come home?"

I think it's just too soon to ask. If and when the day comes that he takes my hand when we say the blessing at dinner, when we're out walking around, if he puts his arm around me when I lay my head on his chest, then, then maybe I'll feel safe enough to ask. Then I will know that he is choosing me -- he's choosing us.

WPG, for your recent progress.

Now try this exercise. Forget your marriage to Mr. WPG. Forget your history together. You are now starting to date a man with whom you think you might have a future. Got it?

Okay, now treat him exactly the same way. Millions of years of evolution teach us that the MALE makes the advances/proposals and the FEMALE (after slyly indicating her general interest) either accedes or declines. You actually have the advantage of having a slightly more "active" role, because of your joint familial responsibilities, but that does not trump his prerogative to initiate more personal proceedings. If he is like many returning BHs, he'll be as skittish as a newborn colt. Do not scare him off by exceeding his "speed limit"!

(BTW: You have one advantage that most females in the mating dance don't have - you know your potential partner's heart and soul already.)

hi wulffpack girl,

How goes the battle, I agree with Neverguessed you do have an advantage when I hear you analyze your feelings now and your acceptance of your part in the marriage and the recovery I am very proud of you, you have grown and bettered yourself better than a lot of the WS's.
I sure a lot of the BS's wish you were their WS's......it would be easier to have someone like you aware and accountable for the marriage and recovery, you deserve a ticket to the other side........I believe people make mistakes it's what you do with those mistakes that count, I believe in understanding yourself and keeping that little voice inside at peace.........I believe in taking care of those we love in the way we want our true selves have to be in those relationships, when you do this it puts your mind and heart at ease that you are learning and loving the way you should........
no more doubts about yourself, know you are at this spot in life and you are worth doing everything you want from now on .......The ones you do love with have the best version of YOU>>> That is the most powerful gift you can give anyone you love.................
I agree go within the speed limit but drive that car don't just be in the passenger seat......
wishing you the best
jessi

I appreciate so many of your thoughts, feelings and words. I think you would be a good friend for my FWW.

Haven't been on in a few days so thought I'd post an update.

Ended up taking some time off from work this week and going to the beach with H and the kids. Had to laugh when I reread my last post, b/c he did actually take my hand saying the blessing when we stopped for a bite to eat on the way down. I think it was an accident, because it (or anything similar affection-wise) didn't happen again. Trip was good, he seemed in a good mood most of the time and was very involved with the girls. We were all in one room though so didn't have much time to ourselves.

I'm so d@mn sensitive to the distance settling back in again that I felt myself physically tensing up getting ready to come home. Got back home a little while ago, unloaded the car, and zoom! he took off.

I thought about NG's words a lot:


I thought about what I'd look for in someone. The issue of EN's and the willingness to fulfill them. Here's a man who fulfills the need of FC like, truly, no other man on earth would be able to do with the girls, b/c no other man on earth would love them as much as he does. He fulfills DS and FS. SF is incredible with him, only lacking in quantity for me. PA=no complaints. I still think he's sexy as h377.

The remaining EN's are where the lack is right now...even though for me, the lack of AF and AD is probably the most painful, I think what is hurting us both is the shortfall on H&O. Neither of us is being RH with each other. We dance around the elephant in the room and neither of us talk about our feelings.

B/C there is so little RH, neither of us have any idea how we're doing in the category of needs-meeting. I have no idea if I'm meeting his needs, either. That's just it - I don't have any clue what his "speed limit" is and I'm worried that I'll do something - either inadvertently or just letting my Taker out at the wrong time - that will exceed his speed limit for good.

Maybe I am stubborn, or stupid, or both. But I don't want anyone else filling my needs. I want him. When he was actively trying to fill my ENs, he was incredible. I don't want anyone else to do what he can do better. I don't want to try and find someone new, someone I can trust with my girls. Someone who would never, could never, be the man H is to me.

Maybe I am in a pessimistic mood today, but I can't seem to shake the feeling that I'm just hoping for some miracle that is never going to happen. The damage I did is just too much. I wished for a miracle, like the story of hopeful_person, but I think that my story will not be the miracle ending I wish for...it will simply serve to be a cautionary tale, and H and I will be a statistic in the tally of failed marriages. I know this is progress - yes, rationally, I know that - we've spent more time together as a couple and as a family over the last few weeks than we have in months...but does it make sense for me to say I don't trust it? Maybe because he and I are still not being RH with each other? I'm just confused.

I want to say all these things to him, but I'm afraid that WILL be exceeding his speed limit.

PS - and jessi, I'm with stretch, I appreciate not only what you say to me, but to others here on the board as well - thank you!

Hey WPG

Glad to see you posting.

Be positive! You and your H have have made quite a bit of progress. If I remember correctly, he pretty much wanted nothing to do with you except for NSA sex. Now he comes for family time and you have gone a date with him. He has not pushed you away when you show affection. Maybe you could start by being RH, I mean someone has to start right?

Also, even if things do not work out, you will know you did your best and you're a changed person. Remember you can control your actions, thoughts, expectations and the taker within you. Also, all your actions have an effect on your husband. You cannot force him or convince him to recover your marriage, but you can presuade him with your actions, patience and consistency. Another thing, he has not sent D papers your way either. So that is a good sign to me that he is not done with you or the marriage.

I am still rooting for you and your family! Take care.

Thanks, WW26...I'm just tired. I don't know how to deal with his LB's and I'm trying to protect what's left in his LB$ balance but there are days I don't do so well. There are times that he makes deposits still, but they aren't balancing out the w/drawals.

When I had coached with JC, she had said that yes, I do need to be honest, but that in terms of pointing out H's LBs, he really needed to get "on board" with MB first. She said it was something I'd have to be careful with, kind of a balancing act. It's funny (not funny ha-ha, you know what I mean ), b/c other than the fact that our finances are a lot more strained now and we're not living under the same roof, many of the dynamics of our relationship are very similar to our pre-A M. Which means my top ENs aren't being met, but now I understand that unmet EN's are why I wasn't happy then and now, now I have boundaries, and refuse to let anyone other than H meet those needs. Too little, too late for him, this closing the barn door after the horse has already gotten out, but I feel more in control of who I am. Lonely, but in control.

I just got down yesterday after he left and today hasn't been a good one. Mainly b/c I am not looking forward to a work trip I've got this week. I honestly dread travelling by myself now even though he probably could care less what I do anymore. I did ask him if he'd like to come keep me company but he said he had to work.

I wonder, sometimes, if I'd be happier if I just quit trying. Maybe "happier" is not the right word. More at peace, maybe? The pain of losing him would still be there, and all the regret and all the remorse, but I wouldn't have the constant hurt from all those stupid expectations that I'm not supposed to have anymore (they keep sneaking around regardless!). Sometimes I daydream about selling everything, buying an RV, quitting my job, and taking the girls out of school and just living on the road. Yeah, kind of impractical, I know. Maybe part of it is knowing how badly I screwed up and wanting to start over. I would start over with H in a heartbeat. I was dead-set against moving away in the beginning, but if he wanted to start a new life together somewhere else, I'd jump at it now. My priorities have changed in a huge way. Anyway, my being unable to start over with H doesn't stop me from wishing that I could still start over, if that makes any sense at all.

Probably 3 months ago, I wrote him a letter. I never gave it to him, I have it at the office. I've rewritten it several times and I have read it over and over again. It's about as RH as it gets, without the melodrama of all the earlier stuff I sent him (mix CDs, argh!). Things left unsaid, the things I'm not telling him about how I am feeling (like about the whole NSA SF issue). I think I'm ready to leave it for him when I go on my work trip. And then I'm going to have to let go. I pay lip service to letting go of expectations, trying to let go of control, etc...but I haven't done that so well. I can't very well "give this to God" and then keep trying to snatch it back and fix it myself.

I have said it before, WPG, and maybe it's awkward saying it in this context, but hear me out all the way.

Whatever pain BS go through, trying to come to grips with what has been done to them, the remorseful WS goes through much, much more trying to come to grips with what they have done.

If, on d-day, instead of learning what he did, your husband had just heart-attacked and died, you'd have less of him than you do now, but probably would be farther along in creating a new life. You might not realize it, but you are really mourning the death of your love/marriage (at least as it was), but doing so by still dwelling on your part in its demise.

I have had this talk with my FWW. I'm still making the sale (and we were only apart mere days) that she is going to have to forgive herself. It happened; she (you) cannot undo what has happened. In our case there is no further need for JC. (If your BH needs some, I think you'd know it by now, and would have supplied it.)

Let your part go, WPG.

NG, your post is insightful, and I am happy that you and your FWW are working through her infidelity. She is a very blessed woman to be given such a chance at recovering her marriage.

However, I can relate on some levels to what WPG is experiencing re: recovery. As the perpetrator, I am as surely yoked to the devastation my actions caused as my DH is scarred by them. And as wonderful as it would be to let it go, it's impossible to move beyond the destruction without being led by your victim.

Just how it feels to me.

Hey WPG. No disrespectful judgments, you do not know what your BH is feeling or thinking.

I do understand about the whole expectations thing. It is not easy to let all of them go and to not get your hopes up when you see something positive.

Yeah I would not bring up LB's. But I would be honest with my thoughts and feelings and what I want. The letter is a good start for RH. I usually use emails because I can have time to edit and reword things. As well, it gives you some time to make sure that there is nothing in the letter that is considered a LB like DJ's or being pushy. Also, the letter allows my BH to read it on his own time. Plus I forget what I want to say when I start a conversation as well or get too emotional.

You might not be at peace if you stop trying. You would have the what if's questions lingering. Your BH is not doe with you yet, so do not give up.

Make sure you doing nice things for yourself as well.

I also find that the less expectations you have the less likely it is for the other person to be withdrawing from the love bank.

It's hard not to feel down because you did not want him to leave or for the happy times to end. But think of it this way, that is what you are working towards, for it to be permanent instead of short periods here and there.

Remember to take care of yourself.