MJ

Good to see you are doing better under the circumstances. D is not easy in any way, shape, or form. The alternative of living in a crippled broken M where there is not much hope of ever having the love, respect, or the essential basic elements required are not being met also isn't fun. I did that for way too long.

I am catching up on my reading and sorry I just couldn't let this go

T/J


This is 100% Bullsheet from another program, treatment center, personal opinion of one who has not recovered, or physco babble. This is no where in the AA program, approved literature or books.

The same way on this board if I was giving misinformation against MB's or Dr. H a Vet would stop me dead in my tracks. A Vet at that meeting needs to step in and set the facts straight.

There is a thread going with alcoholism/co-dependency in general. Hope you will join in with questions.

I stumbeled around for 15 years being a dry drunk. No empathy for my alcoholism or being a WH. I'm certainly not an expert at either MB's or AA. Some of your questions may be answered? Several on both sides of alcoholism chime in.

Link


End T/J

MJ-Just wanted to let you know I am still reading along, support you, and want you to know you are way stronger than you believe you are.

nESRE

A very sensitive and wise post from the same. Wondered how you have been doing also MJ.

Thamks for the link Nerse, I will be looking into it myself hoping I can gain wisdom and insight.

Link no workie for me nESRE, maybe you want to look into it. But still..

How you doin MJ??

link not working for me either.

Ok MJ,
I dont wanna have to worry about you now
Just a short hi will do. I guess I am just addicted to my MB freinds lol
Anyhow I will just force myself to believe the best anyway because of what I see in your posts of who you are
Sieze the day

HI C.P. {{{hugs to ya}}}

I'm alive and kicking. Thanks for asking. I'm sorry if I have worried you. I get worried about some of us on here from time to time as well. I know that sometimes I will dissapear from here because I'm too down to even bring the words to post and work through it with you guys, and other times I'm out having fun, or just busy.

My absence over the last few days has been a mixture of all the above. Had some down days, and was going to post a few days in a row to work it out here. Plus, I just wanted to reply back to everyone. Both days as I was sitting down to reply, this one gf of mine kept calling me to go off and do stuff with her. Well....I guess my choice was obvious. Going off with her did help to pull me out of my funk. I went out with her right after work, and stayed gone til midnight both Thursday night and last night.

Although, it doesn't matter how much fun I'm having, I still have this underlying sadness in my heart, along with that disoriented feeling, and it's hard to shake it. I even went to a psychiatrist yesterday after work to discuss anti d's, again. Still haven't filled the prescription. Not sure that I will. I believe my feelings are all situational, and the negatives will go away when the divorce is over and I know which direction I'm going.

Right now I'm at my club filling in for the bartender who took the weekend off. It is so slow I can't believe it. That's why I have the time to post right now. I don't get why it's so slow though. The weather is beautiful and a great day for a sail. That gf that I was talking about earlier, is a member here at the club, and she just hung out with me for 3 hours.

Since I'm on the subject of sailing.....I've seriously been considering buying a boat to live on once the divorce is final, and everything is settled financially. There's a pretty marina not far from here. This gf would be able to help me learn everything I need to learn about having a sail boat. Heck, her boyfriend has a boat yard and she knows tons about it. Plus, I can take friends off for the weekend sailing if I did this. I'm liking the idea more and more.

I'm not ready to buy another house anywhere, and won't be for about 2 yrs. I don't like the idea of throwing money away on rent, so having the boat to live on temporarily could be a solution for me. She said the boats that we're looking at would hold it's value.

Then, maybe my MB friends could come sail with me too. Wouldn't that be fun?

I see someone's sail boat pulling into the dock, so I'm going to log off for now. If they don't come in, I'll come back.

Hope my MB friends are all doing ok.

I've gotta get to Itsa's thread and congratulate him. I am SO happy for him.

Hugs all.

Sure is tempting MJ
If this winter you are stll posting here mayber I'll take you up on sailing. IDK we will have to see
Living on a boat sounds way cool and bohemian lol. Ok manages a bar and lives on a boat in florida. Is it in margaritaville by any chance?

Joking of course. Anyway it was the right choice going out with your gfs rather than coming here and beating yourself up

My son who is sweet and smart and a very understanding and compassionate kid for 20 yrs old, and shall I add knows people need to work things out with support also, refers to me being on the forums as, (ya gotta love this), "The sad friends Network). Lol. Well he's just a kid he bounces back faster.

But. If anyone can actually go out and live life to the fullest and healthy, and keep the self analyzation down to a heathly balance , I believe that is. The best way to heal.

I am gonna have to discipline myself to staying away and doing more active things in my life because I have so much God is waiting for me to partake in. I think an hour a day or every three days would keep me connected but not feed my addiction lol

It's cool it's just part of the adjustment to a new life that I have no idea or plans for , well a lot of plans , and ideas, but need to kick myself in the butt sometimes.

You are doing everything right as far as a can see. When the D is in the past it will get better

If you wanna rant or turn stuff over in your mind here we are allways around
Have a wonderful weekend

Linkie Repaired

nESRE

Sounds like a good plan.

Through out the journey to my D I kept getting a small weekend place again and still in the near future in my mind. 10 years ago we had a place an hour and 10 minute drive northwest to a premium walleye lake.

On friday night we'd drive up-unpack-maybe mow the 2 strips of grass on each side of the camper-Be playing or fishing on the lake within less than an hour.

Now with living on the lake I never completed my Honey-Do list or all the maintenance/work that comes with keeping a lake property looking nice and well groomed.

Never had that problem with the camper. The good old days. I actually fished and played way more then.

Keep that dream going MJ. Sounds practical too until you decide to settle into a house.

nESRE

LOL... that is true but funny...the thing is about our little network, as least for me, when I see someone like MJ thriving it gives hope, or when I'm having a bad day some comfort... it a great little network and one day we will be the happy friends network!

MJ- glad your out having fun. I get the I'm having fun yet the sinking feeling in your heart...for me that sinking feeling is shrinking a little in comparison to weeks or a month after mine walked out... I think those are steps towards recovery...and for me I dont think signing a piece of paper will make that feeling go away, I question if it will for you...there might be relief like I dont have to talk with the Jack Wagon about bills again- but not wow it's Sunday afternoon "I sure miss hanging out with the Jack Wagon, reading the paper, talking, playing with the boys, making the big Sunday dinner kinda thing." That, at least for me is fading... I'm ready for it to pass, but I know its a slow process- for me (sure wasn't for the Jack Wagon )

Yeah Faith, My son is 20 and doesn't have to think about these things or has kids and so on. So he does not know the value of friends in hard times as you sift out the garbage and put the past behind, bittersweetley as it is.

But that brings up a whole different point we gotta consider with child rearing. Do we accually WANT them to understand? Give us respect, and know the cause and effect of the idiot descisions, and have a deeper respect for love sure.. But how do we accually explain how different we become after the loss or if things go bad? How do we explain that we lost a part of us and the other spouse took it out and stomped on it, and we have to learn how to be alone again, and be strong again.

Kids need us to be strong anyways, and to explain to them how many insecurities are creeping in, because you have been crapped on and abandoned and lied to, well, that detail of the conditional part of love is allready being thrust on them by the Wayward, in thisr own private world and with its own torture. They need our reasurance, and even though they see you suffer, it is good that you can reassure them in the midst of it.

My kids know I am not the man that I was when they were little. Then I was a guy who would not stand still, allways working or studing, at church and very active and positive. When I talked and spent time with them I was allways positive and encouraging, and not afraid to tell them the truth.

Well why not? I was doing what I was created for as far as I knew, and standing for truth, hard work, detirmination and conviction and trusted it would bring us all a good future.

Its to bad that it wasn't my wives cup of tea, and I could feel that too, although at one time yes, she could get behind it, but she was allways partial to the people who had a hard life, and were bitter. All my warnings about how she let them in and infuence her went out the window when she herself could not show them how better off she was, because of course, thier value had been exchanged for things.

"Well I just want a house, after all with all I've suffered and how bad life has tricked me and people have hurt me..." My wife started out trying to win them to God, and giving them the promises, but these people wanted to see the richness in cold hard cash, the power of infuence, and the luxuries of life.

To borrow a line from Braveheart, "Thats how slaves are made".

So they see I am not the man I used to be, and they understand I loved my wife, issues and all, very much. There has allways been a part of me that takes the blame for her fall, and I even think they allow that belief within themselves to some extent, because they still can't accept the negative parts of our relationship, the lack of personal dicipline, blackmail of threatening to fall off the edge unless things went her way, denial of ever doing anything wrong or being corrected even by plain reason, and of course the lies and deciet I covered up over the years, and how they broke me down over time. If they question me I can't point out that thier Mom had a hand in why I still feel a failure, not to my daughter at all, middle boy can't handle it, and youg boy just gets depressed when he thinks about it all.

In truth its my own crap to deal with, and they will do better remembering when she was doing well and a good Mom. Her demise and death is enough for them to deal with, and for them to know she screwed up is enough insecurity for those kids. What they need from me is to see me bounce back, put it in the past, and be there if they have any questions. They need me to return to the hard working positive force they once knew, with no excuses and not needing any.

In time it is all getting better, and they do not understand the nessesity and timeframe of mourning, but Ill be DAMNED if I do not set an example for them that they might not understand yet, but will show them life is good, and you should treasure it.

Sadness is a part of life, and we learn things in the valleys, but its not thier time for that, and if I do a good job as a parent, they will never have to comepletly understand that as I experienced it, and what parent wants them to. Its enough for them to see me getting better, and not worrying about me anymore, while they make good plans for thier own life. Thats what 20 something kids SHOULD be doing, and I insist they do, I will be fine.

To be here well, I dont know what I would had done if I did not hear about the solid reasoning of how damaging it was to me to stay in such a screwwed up marriage, alone and for so long. I allways knew I was taking damage, but I believed in recovery for all the wrong reasons. I thought if I just took it eventually she would hit bottom, and come back to earth. It seems I was right the first time, its not "Marriage at any cost". When things got so bad and she did not bounce back from the bottom but yet died because she could not handle the withdrawl and kept medicating herself, well I had to know, what did I do wrong, and what I did was love too much and do to much for her.

I was right the first time for leaving her because I saw this kind of future and pain if I stayed with a selfish nasty alcoholic. I came back and out of guilt for leaving swore I would never leave again, and then by the time the cycle was starting to repeat itself, I was in so deep and the children and all..it turned out just as I feared long ago, accually worse than I imagined, and yet that pit of selfishness she dragged me into that I was fleeing from before, still took its toll.

The only thing good to come out of it, was that my children saw how screwed up she became, a tottally different alien being, and saw me love her anyways for who she once was, a pretty decent Mom who loved them very much, just not enough to give up drugs and denial. They now understand why Dad worked so hard, cuz Mom wouldn't. Why Dad would have problems with/when Mom wanted to go out of town for a couple weeks. They understand why Dad seemed to be controlling. They know I was in a battle for thier Moms life. So many times I had been tempted to leave and take the children, but I never had enough money to, and the kids thought there Mom was the poor suffering servant of God, and I didn't have the desire to crush them with how much she used God to get away with murder, now she has murdered herself.

By being here I can see what I should have done a long time ago, damn her "God is all I need and I will not drink around the church people or my Pastor". If people were not kissing her butt and praising her up "Whatever" she was doing she had no use for them. I should have insisted she go to AA and admit she had a problem with certain thoughts and behaviors and triggers, and taken the kids if she did not. But she played off my guilt for leaving the first time, gaslighted me into believing everything is my fault because, "You are the spiritual leader, you just don't know God enough", so I did what I was used to as a child, suffer through it,trust God that he would save us, put up with selfish behavior and emotional blackmail and abuse, and let God deal with them, because he does, there was never any doubt in my mind, never was, never will be.

But coulda shoulda woulda..doesn't matter now..bouce back, rebound, pick up the pieces and with God and his angels like the good ppl here, there is no doubt that in time, I will be the Man I used to be, but better. Part of the process for me is being here, helping others to see even after recovery, it is important to continue to communicate and to not let, "oh, thats just a little inconvients" go, and not live like an ostrich, sticking our head in the sand and hoping that negative things will go away, as long as you pretend they are not there, and can keep all the plates spinning on sticks until then.

The "Sad friends Network" is full of real people with very deep problems that are embracing the real facts of life. They are not running and hiding but instead supporting others just like me. I am so lucky to be here for as long as I can with the time I have.

Hi MB friends, and lurkers. Oh, and you too stbx.

Trying to catch up now..........

C.P....



What huge insight for a 5 year old C.P. I'm 47, and I have only recently had that conversation with God. I think it was the conversation he was waiting for me to have with him all of these years. For me, it meant that I wouldn't rely on anyone else to fill my needs, except for God. If I have an unmet need, I go to him first, and work to accept where I'm at. When anyone does meet a need of mine, it's icing on the cake, and it makes life a little sweeter. I have been having lots of sweet times in the midst of the storm.



Regarding NPD...I mentioned that I thought my stbx may likely have this disorder. Is that what you were referring to?

Stbx rarely tried to build me up. He did for a little while when we first found MB. However, he also tore me down more.

I believe stbx has always been insecure. Why else would he lie about his actions for YEARS, and seek admiration from women, even skanks for years.

The confidence I have, I have worked for it. When the kids entered middle school, I started going back to school as well to get a degree. I was making excellent grades, good friends, and was president of student government. My confidence started soaring then. That was the time stbx fell into online sex with skanks, and left me and the kids for an online skank. I didn't desert stbx during that time. I tried continually to get him involved with US. I remember feeling embarrassed to tell my friends that stbx and I never did anything together.

After d-day, and the accumulation of my backbone towards boundaries, my confidence grew there as well.

Stbx told me during our marriage that I was controlling, especially after d-day. The way I saw it, he was trying to control the relationship by NOT doing poja. He wasn't willing to resolve conflicts with me. HE wanted to control the relationship.

He also told me during the false recovery that he married me because I was cute, liked sex, and didn't complain about his drinking. So, since I developed a backbone, I'm suddenly controlling. He also said he hated "boundaries". Lol.

I think that my case supports your theory about insecure men who become controlling.



I did the same thing with stbx too. I believe I understand this from personal experience. Stbx always told me that I was unhappy with him because I wasn't close enough to God. He was walking around telling everyone, still does, how happy he is Yet he is the most miserable person to others who don't feed his narcissistic supply). He was studying new age religion, among other various religions. Claimed to be learning the secrets of happiness, without amends, poja, or EPs.

For awhile, I let him make me feel bad, guilty, etc, because I thought he MUST be close to God if he's reading about it, and preaching about it. I questioned myself constantly.

In summary, he was gaslighting me so that he continue his independent behavior, and addictions to admiration, OW, video games, and golf. He also did it so he wouldn't have to meet my needs.

It's true that the ones who are addicted, or dry drunks, will just devour you in their quest for more, more, more. (Thanks nESRE. :))




I totally agree.

You're welcome Pep. I was happy to do it. Sorry it took so long.

It was a little painful reading that thread of mine that prompted the post on the false recovery thread, but there was a payoff in it for me as well. Besides the benefit of helping other BSs, it gave me a CLEAR picture of what you can look for in a false recovery. And that is the absence of POJA. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, imo, the relationship is doomed. POJA covers a ton.

Btw....I think it's cute that you still call me Mopey.

SoughtOut,



I showed my love to stbx by trying to recover with him after learning of his infidelities. I was showing empathy in that way, but I couldn't admire my husband as much as he wanted me to with his actions during the false recovery. I did try to admire him for other things though. Admiration is about the only thing that my husband WANTS to feel. Since I couldn't give him my total admiration, he didn't feel for me.

nESRE,

Good to hear from you.



Thank you.



No apologies necessary. I'm glad you picked up on it. I didn't know it wasn't a part of approved AA literature. Thank you for letting me know that. Now that I think about it, why would AA say that anyway? You'd think they would want you to follow all the steps, and take in all the blue book tells you. It really doesn't make sense to "take what you want and leave the rest". Good eye nESRE.



Thank you for the invite and the link. I have read the thread, but haven't yet posted on it. I did have some things I wanted to talk about there, so I will get to it in the near future, God willing. Great thread btw. It has already been helpful to me as a lurker.




I will find your insight helpful, no doubt.



Wow nESRE, thank you. I really appreciate the support, and the confidence. And again, thank you for the insight that you have already given me.

C.P., thank you for that. You guys are blowing me away.

That would be fun C.P.! And I'm positive I will still be posting here this winter.




Lol...All I want to do is make a trip to the southern cross. I won't even have to leave my home. Seriously though, I have been giving it a lot of thought, but I don't think I'm going to be able to live on a boat if I can't find someone willing to take my pets.

Just for clarification, I don't manage the bar, but you're close. I manage the office, and on occasion, I fill in for the bartender at our sailing club if she is out for whatever reason.



Sometimes.



I'll agree with HF's take on this one. In addition, I have learned a TON on this board. I am surviving, and will be thriving, because of this board.

But I get it, my son has basically said the same things to me...lol...He doesn't understand that I'd be worse off without this board. I would have been MORE UNHAPPY with these events, had it not been for this board. That's what I will try to get him to understand next.



It's all about balance, as you said yourself. I've swung from one side of the pendulum to the next. I'm still trying to get my balance.



I understand. I've done that, do that, myself. I can accomplish things when I break it down into smaller pieces.



Well, that's because you don't see everything...lol...Trust me, I've made my share of mistakes. But thank you for the confidence to do better.



Thank God, and thank you too C.P.!

Nesre, again.



I'd like to live on a lake, but wouldn't want to have to do all the yardwork by myself!

I'm so glad you are getting away for some relaxing weekends. It sounds nice, and peaceful.

I love the story about the camping trips. Yes, the good ole days.

I think I feel so weighted down with my current living arrangements, because this house was meant for stbx and I to live in together. It's too much for just me. I find myself at this juncture in my journey wanting to simplify as much as possible.

Thanks for encouraging my dreams. I trust you guys to let me know if I'm being ridiculous.

HavingFaith,




I couldn't agree more!



I agree with you. I'm sure there are a lot of us who have the unfortunate pleasure of knowing about this. I also truly believe that we are FINALLY in recovery, and progressing.



The bolded part of that paragraph struck me when I first read it. I know you're right. I'll still have the same "stuff" to work through, and probably more, once the divorce is final.

And yes, I also agree there will be some closure for me. I'll be free to start new relationships, when I'm ready. I'll be out of limbo, to a point, on wondering what my financial future is going to look like, where I'm going to live, etc.


There will always be trials and victories. It's not going to end on the divorce date. Such is life. I plan to embrace it, good and bad.