Oh yeah, I live in a state where you can't just pack up and move away. Gotta stay here. He is from here. I am from a different state.

As I am reading through other threads, I am picking up on some lingo and ideas. It is very clear to me that my hubby is not interested in moving to recovery. Just words, no actions. He complains that we don't have anything in common. I ask him, "How could we, we have been growing apart for 17 years?" He doesn't like that, but it is the truth. He has been living a secret second life our whole marriage.

He is also refusing to forgive me for telling other people about his issues. How is it that MB condones it, but he thinks it is so wrong and unacceptable and unforgivable. I haven't told very many people. I just needed to seek help and advice. He rakes me over the coals for telling others.

I notice that there are a lot of views, but most are not responding. I know this is long, but, please respond with your advice, opinion. What is going on with my husband? I hope some veterans also reply to this thread. Thank you all for reading and responding. I am going to re-read them tomorrow.

Hey little,
I'm sorry to tell you but your a very long way from recovery. None of the MB conditions have been met yet. He is having an A, he is wayward and even if you wanted to try to work at your marriage you stand little to no chance of meeting his emotional needs as he is having those met by the woman he is having an A with, never mind the fact that no matter how you dress it he is emotionally abusive to the whole family.

A starting point is always him cutting ALL contact with OW, this means he never sees or speaks to her again, if they work together he has to change jobs, if and when he agrees to this he has to send the OW a no contact letter.

One other thing is that has to own the mistakes he made and put in place extraordinary precautions so that he dies not put the family at risk.

Your part is to stop enabling the A by blaming yourself and let him grow up and take responsibility for his actions ( don't do what his parents are doing).

The purpose of exposing the a to everyone is to brake the fantasy people tend to live in when they are in an affair and bring them back down to earth with a dose of reality from all sides and gaining supporters in your battle to claim back your H. more often than not exposure works a treat and the way your H responded to you exposing his A is VERY typical. The angrier the WS Get the more you know exposure is working. I would say to you expose more, there never is a limit to exposure.

However with all the above said DR H does not recommend working on the marriage if there is abuse going on. He recommends plan B until your spouse is safe enough for you to be able to work with. There is a video on the site about mb principals. I know reading all the info can be hard try having a peek at the video.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2515783#Post2515783

Here is a link to the video there are a few useful radio clips too on the thread I just linked if u want specific information.

NB28. Thank you so much for responding. I was reading your signature entry and my heart is for you. I hate to know that you are in a similar boat and going through so much pain. They just don't know the damage they are doing by being so selfish and making the choices that take them out of the marriage.

I have been trying to not own any of his stuff, it is just very difficult.

I have finally realized that he doesn't want to put effort into anything. He just wants it to be easy and feel good. He is not interested in repairing our marriage. He doesn't want anything to change though as he would not be able to afford a divorce or to keep gambling. He can have his second life if that is what he wants. I can't will him, do the work, for him to want our marriage any longer. It is easier to revise our history, demonize me. I am broken. I don't have it in me to continue taking his abuse, and all that comes with him. I deserve love, to be loved and accepted for who I am, and he has never been able to give that to me, and he blames me. I know I am not faultless, but I know that I am responding and dealing with issues and choices that are 100 times worse than what he doesn't like about me, most of which IS response, words, sadness to his choices and treatment.

I will watch the video. Thank you for sending me the link.

Hi LB, and welcome to MArriage Builders. The big reason you aren't getting many responses is because your initial post is too long. We only need 3 to 5 short paragraphs to get it and too much information muddies the water. I know for me, I don't have time to read a post that long.

Is your H an alcoholic? Can you summarize your situation into about 3 short paragraphs?

Hey little,
I find myself in the position of not making much progress because at the start of the MB journey I was not willing to do anything for my marriage, I was full of anger and hatred and just didn't get that I needed to work too if I was to get my marriage into a decent shape. Then I stunted progress because I simply could not do a plan b. Depression finances and total lack of friends and family made it so hard to execute a plan b. However there is tons of progress because he is no longer having an A and is not actively hurting or torturing me, we have a marriage just not a good one.

In your case it's the opposite you take most the blame and don't give him enough of his share of it. Plan b is for your sanity and I can't think of anything else that would work ( there is no way I would advise you to plan A him, it's just not right because he takes total advantage of your kind heart).

Have you considered coaching with dr h? Just for you for now not both of you. If finances are tight have you thought about getting on the radio show and asking for advice for your situation from dr h senior directly??

Hi MelodyLane. My H thinks I am crazy when I have told him he is drinking too much. He never used to drink hard liquor. Maybe an occasional drink while out to dinner. Beer once or twice a week on a hot day. Then he started having online poker at our house and serving wiskey and coke. He would only have one when it was poker night. Then poker night became two poker nights. More drinking. Then it started becoming a drink on other nights. Then a drink every night. Then two drinks every night. Sometimes three drinks. Then his drinks became stronger. I measured the amount of whiskey he poured into one drink the next day by putting the equivalent amount of ice and filling that same glass up with water to the line where the whiskey was. It was 3 1/2 of the larger jigger side on a double jigger that has a small sice and a larger side. The addiction specialist I was seeing at the time to understand his addictions and to get therapy from said that was about 2 1/2 drinks. He has 3 of these almost every night. That is a progression. Just like his gambling and his pornography.

I can try to make it shorter for people to read.

Dated, pretty happy. Became engaged at 14 months. His parents didn't think I was good enough. Caused him emotional problems. He became withdrawn, but said nothing was wrong. He is even tempered, mild mannered guy, so thought all was ok. Broke up when found out about parents. He talked me back.

Got married, immediate problems. Started ignoring me. Only time he had interest in me was when he wanted sex. At tjhe one month mark, found porn tapes. He blew it off. I took second job b/c he was worried about money. That is when he did the porn 3-4 times a week while I was working at night. (I didn't know this until the year mark.) He told me at 8 months I was an embarassement to him. When I asked what I had done, he said, "Nothing, you are just an embarassment to me." I was devastated. Porn has plagued our whole marriage - arguments over continuing to find evidence, etc.. He was supposed to stop. He never did.

I am very understanding and forgiving. We now have 3 children, boys. he is not a family man. He has no real role in their lives. He plays his poker, watches his games, plays on his phone, does whatever he wants to do. I get criticism if I ask him to help out, He treats me badly. He is very verbally and emotionally abusive. Everything is wrong with what I do, what I say, how I do it, how I say it, how I should have done it, how I should not have done it, how he would have done it, etc.. Besides the "I am an embarassment to him statement, he has told me that, "I am a failure as a mother, that I should just go back to work because I have failed as a mother." "If we weren't married, we wouldn't even be friends." "I am socially unacceptable." "No one likes me." "He doesn't have a relationship with his brother and that is my fault." And so much more. Daily criticism. I have never had any issue with his family. He began gambling six years ago and we are in major debt.

He began talking to other women on his cell phone. Hiding his phone, etc. Come to find out a woman that he didn't want me to know he was talking to bought him a cell phone (she is married, lives in a different state.) This was over three years ago. I found a phone. I didn't know she bought him that phone. I have found his work phone several times, I thought he ended things with her, then I found another phone she bought him last June.

Told him we needed to start over. I was taking blame because I had been closed down. I am not saying that I have been an angel in all of this and know I have contributed to our problems, but I can tell you that I have been more of a reactionary than anything else. I NEVER turned out of the marriage. I never cheated. I have waited for him to choose me, love me, see what he has done and is doing.

Anyway, he told me that he wanted our marriage to work. He wasn't turning to me though. I tried to be patient. Months went by, nothing. He told me that he wasn't attracted to me. He is still living what I call his secret second life.

He told me that he loves me as the mother of his children, but that he does not see me in the role of wife. He just doesn't want that with me. After a few months, I call the other woman. Ended up talking to her husband and found out that she had been at a work conference that he told me that she would not be attending. It was just them representing their company at this special conference. Her husband also told me that he found a love card that my husband had written to her while they were at that conference, and a few other bits of information. In August, she leaves my husband I love you messages. He says he is not talking to her. He has not been forthcoming about his relationship with her, he has not admitted to anything. He says that he has never had an affair with her. He says that he has not cheated on me. He says that he has never slept wtih her.

I decided to forgive b/c he said he wanted our marriage to work. Still not shown remorse, turned to me, deleted her from his FB, disclosed or explained anything. He does not want a sexual relationship with me. He will only admit what he knows that I know. He never wanted our marriage to work, just words so he wouldn't have to change anything. He is not in it and doesn't want it anymore.

I am new and didn't really know of these possibilities. Finances are tight. Hmmm, get on the radio show? Boy, that would take some preparation.

I am re-posting as several people have told me that my original post was way too long. Please read and respond if you can.

Dated, pretty happy. Became engaged at 14 months. His parents didn't think I was good enough. I didn't know about this. Caused him emotional problems. He became withdrawn, but said nothing was wrong. He is even tempered, mild mannered guy, so thought all was ok. Broke up when found out about parents. He talked me back.

Got married, immediate problems. Started ignoring me. Only time he had interest in me was when he wanted sex. At tjhe one month mark, found porn tapes. He blew it off. I took second job b/c he was worried about money. That is when he did the porn 3-4 times a week while I was working at night. (I didn't know this until the year mark.) He told me at 8 months I was an embarassement to him. When I asked what I had done, he said, "Nothing, you are just an embarassment to me." I was devastated. Porn has plagued our whole marriage - arguments over continuing to find evidence, etc.. He was supposed to stop. He never did. He just developed other addictions, gambling, alcohol, affairs. I am very understanding and forgiving person. He just takes advantage of that.

We now have 3 children, boys. he is not a family man. He has no real role in their lives. He plays his poker, watches his games, plays on his phone, does whatever he wants to do. I get criticism if I ask him to help out, He treats me badly. He is very verbally and emotionally abusive. Everything is wrong with what I do, what I say, how I do it, how I say it, how I should have done it, how I should not have done it, how he would have done it, etc.. Besides the "I am an embarassment to him statement, he has told me that, "I am a failure as a mother, that I should just go back to work because I have failed as a mother." "If we weren't married, we wouldn't even be friends." "I am socially unacceptable." "No one likes me." "He doesn't have a relationship with his brother and that is my fault." And so much more. Daily criticism. I have never had any issue with his family. He began gambling six years ago and we are in major debt.

He began talking to other women on his cell phone. Hiding his phone, etc. Come to find out a woman that he didn't want me to know he was talking to bought him a cell phone (she is married, lives in a different state.) This was over three years ago. I found a phone. I didn't know she bought him that phone. I have found his work phone several times, I thought he ended things with her, then I found another phone she bought him last June.

Told him we needed to start over. I was taking blame because I had been closed down. I am not saying that I have been an angel in all of this and know I have contributed to our problems, but I can tell you that I have been more of a reactionary than anything else. I NEVER turned out of the marriage. I never cheated. I have waited for him to choose me, love me, see what he has done and is doing.

Anyway, he told me that he wanted our marriage to work. He wasn't turning to me though. I tried to be patient. Months went by, nothing. He told me that he wasn't attracted to me. He is still living what I call his secret second life.

He told me that he loves me as the mother of his children, but that he does not see me in the role of wife. He just doesn't want that with me. After a few months, I call the other woman. Ended up talking to her husband and found out that she had been at a work conference that he told me that she would not be attending. It was just them representing their company at this special conference. Her husband also told me that he found a love card that my husband had written to her while they were at that conference, and a few other bits of information. In August, she leaves my husband I love you messages. He says he is not talking to her. He has not been forthcoming about his relationship with her, he has not admitted to anything. He says that he has never had an affair with her. He says that he has not cheated on me. He says that he has never slept wtih her.

I decided to forgive b/c he said he wanted our marriage to work. Still not shown remorse, turned to me, deleted her from his FB, disclosed or explained anything. He does not want a sexual relationship with me. He will only admit what he knows that I know. He never wanted our marriage to work, just words so he wouldn't have to change anything. He is not in it and doesn't want it anymore.

Littlebit, thanks for shortening that up a bit, I guess a little superfluous information is better than alot.

So, your H had an affair, is still lying about it and has swept it all under the rug? Do I have that right? Is that the problem TODAY?

Here is your biggest problem as I see it:
From my perspective, there is nothing here TO forgive and I think that handing out unconditional forgiveness has greatly harmed your marriage. What will turn your marriage is setting CONDITIONS for forgiveness.

Check this out and tell me what you think: Can't We Forgive and Forget?

Here is what has to happen in order to recover your marriage, like Harley states, deviations are a DISASTER:

Well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

HE isn't willing to do a darn thing and you are taking all the time passive/aggressive behaviors and MENTAL ABUSE from this guy.

I am USUALLY 100 percent pro marriage when it's right and healthy, but in your case it seems it's NEVER been ok.

To me, the rational thing to do would to be get away from my daily abuser. But that's me.

All else I'd say to do would be a short plan A followed by a plan B.

Imho, remaining in this environment with him THERE in this environment is simply unhealthy for you and for the kids. He might not need to remain where you and the kids are imho.

Hey Peachy can I please just ask why suggest a Plan A in this scenario? Even if it�s a mini one. This guy is an abuser, you don�t plan A an abuser.

I respect your opinion and was curious as to your point of view.

Mine is that under no circumstances should this man be plan A�d.




This was 8 months into a 17 year marriage, there was no A at this stage and this in my book is total mental abuse.



This is vile behaviour and again its not in a cheating WS context, he was saying these things to Little before he even began the A. I really don�t think this marriage can be recovered without professional counselling (preferably MB).

MelodyLane, I cut out a lot. The rest, I thought, was important to the story. Sorry I didn't make it shorter.

I have asked him many times over the last year to just please disclose all the information about how he got so close to her, why he accepted the first phone, what have they done, etc... He won't answer anything. HE doesn't want to disclose. He says they didn't have an affair. I had the other phone in my hand, had checked it over and KNEW it was from Wisconson, and he still said it was his work phone, which is a Kansas based area code. He will LIE until he knows I know.

He has a million excuses why counseling isn't working. He's a quack, she's a quack, I don't like her style as she does all the talking, etc.. Go anyway!! But, counseling won't work when you are carrying on an affair, hiding a cell phone, and not being honest. I have been told by my therapist, the addiction specialist I saw for a short period and the Gam Anon specialist I spoke to in Kansas City, that this is not a marital counseling issue right now. It is an addiction counseling issue right now.

What will happen if he doesn't make an 180 degree turn, is that he will have more affairs and you will die a death of a thousand cuts. I would give him an opportunity to earn your trust and your forgiveness and if he won't do it, then consider divorce. It is cruel and manipulative to lie to you about his affair. Unconditional love [or forgiveness] leads to abuse and neglect just like this.


The addiction specialist is right, this is hopeless unless he first handles his addiction. Nor will counseling work when you are in an affair.

If I were in your shoes, I would plan on separating until he stops his addiction and commits to recovering your marriage. You have nothing to lose other than a future of abuse and neglect. I would first set him down and let him you are not willing to stay in this marriage unless he takes certain steps. I would write out the conditions and they might look something like this:

1. end your addictions and get help

2. tell the truth about your affairs and pass a polygraph

3. affair proof the marriage by becoming completely transparent - giving you all passwords and accounting for his time

4. commit to a marital recovery program

With an addict you have to be very firm and set very high standards in order to wake them up. They are users and abusers who show no empathy for their spouses. And if your H does not live up to those standards, you will have lost nothing other than an abusive marriage.