You sure seem to be throwing a fit to me. Just as you did last night with Neverguessed. You throw a fit whenever someone says something you don't want to hear. And in this case, what you don't want to hear is the truth. Now, that is childish. You aren't going to get too far if you lash out anyone who states a true fact, ntt. Honesty is the first step in recovery, not denial.

I'm a drunk. A sober drunk. Have been for almost 13 years. If ML and most of the other folks here told me they saw me dodging the truth, my truth, I'd be hurt that I was outed, not that they said it.

Can you both control and enjoy your drinking? (Meaning you yourself, not you as a couple.)clarify Either control or enjoy? I'll venture to guess the answer is "no", from what you've posted so far. Marriage Builders will not work until you get sober and are solidly living alcohol/addiction-free. Alcoholism is a disease, and has been since 1957-ish. If you view it as a character issue, you're going to have a really hard time cleaning up.

I used to think "I'm a young female" (I was 28 when I sobered up, and tried for years off and on before that). I also thought: "Well, I've never been arrested, or wrecked a car, or lost a home or job." I just didn't get caught drinking to get arrested. I took cabs. I never bought a home. I worked at a bar. Yep, way different from a steady corporate gig, but here's the deal: as long as you see yourself as anything but "a drunk who needs to get clean to save her life", you'll probably not stay stopped when you do stop drinking. The odds are against you, not the people here, not the people at AA meetings.

Don't like hanging out with vehicular homicide-committing folks, or people who had beaten the snot out of others while drunk, or dealers? Look for the folks in suits. Look for the housewives. Go to a different AA group, to meetings right after work, and to women-only meetings. Keep going until you hear your story. If you don't show up often, you'll miss it. If you spend your time trying to figure out how to not be "that bad of a drunk" because you're not drinking in the mornings, at work, out of a paper bag, crapping yourself, barfing when you do drink...or whatever your mind says qualifies as a 'drunk', you're kidding yourself.

Marriage Builders did not work for the people I knew who tried it while they were drinking. Why? They couldn't be honest with themselves about that, so how on Earth could they be deeply honest with a spouse about anything else?

I can't speak for my experience using the MB program drunk, because I didn't find it until I nearly drank again after 10 years. I nearly drank again because I stopped being honest with myself about how I lived life sober. Until I buckled down with that, nothing here made any sense and hurt to read.

Either get sober, or don't but right now, you're kicking the gift horse in the mouth.

You are not adding anything useful to this thread. You are simply repeating yourself and acheiving nothing. I truly cannot understand why you persist with me after so many requests that you stop posting to me.

In addition to not being pejorative in my choice of words to reference your status, rtt, I also did NOT say you currently blame your husband for anything.

The issue would be that you are not demonstrating that you are at the point of taking your necessary remediation seriously enough to self-demand success..... Getting back to my point.....and since you're not fully sold on the absolute necessity of succeeding in this process, when you do fail, you'll attach the shame of, and anger at, the failure to an innocent third-party (you and the bottle being the parties of the first and second part), and that will be.......your hubby.

My statement was predictive of how your attitude when your lack of firm commitment to rehabilitation (certainly evidenced by your shrill reaction to even having it be named) will manifest itself.

Rtt,

Your argument is that you are a "good person" who is suffering from flawed behavior.

All that is being stated is a name for that behavior.

Mel is a little bit like sandpaper, rough and dry, but trust this; she is not coming from any place which required a high horse to ride in on.

It was a little horse, a little pink pony.... er, scratch that.

The point is, believe it or not, you are getting both barrels from someone who knows directly where you are.

Quit the pity-party, suck it up, and let's get to work on your "goals."

Obviously, you aren't the best person to determine how to achieve them, as you haven't done so yet.

True failure is submission, and ignoring the lessons in the small failures of life.

You've ignored the steps I have and am taking. I said that you stated I would blame my H. There is no need to predict that as I started this improvement stating it is not his fault. I'm doing what I need to do so there is no reason for you state that I'm not serious about, will fail or blame H.

Awesome post, fullthrottle. I agree with every word. An alcoholic who is honest has not problem with that word because they know it is true.

In my early days in AA, the people who pissed me off the most were those spoke the truth. In reality, the problem was not THEM, but ME. I was in denial of the truth. That is what I see happening here: DENIAL.

The only reason a person would get angry about being called drunk is because a) its not true or b) it is true and she is running from the truth.


Absolutely true. Additionally, it is impossible to meet the needs of an alcoholic because their emotions are warped.

You already said that. What you mean is that I am not saying anything YOU WANT TO HEAR but something you NEED to hear.

I've sent a request you be blocked from my posts. You obviously aren't respectful enough to do that on your own no matter how many times asked.

I will tell you what they told me at my first AA meeting: "take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth."

rtt, you need to stop being so defensive and listen to what we are saying. You are not the best judge of what is helpful or not, you are the LEAST qualified on this thread.

I've thanked those who were helpful. I've asked you to bow out as you are not. It's a shame a moderator is necessary for an adult to simply stop posting to a member who has requested it. Hopefull you will be blocked from my posts soon.

tyvm, ML

ftt, your world will change, will open up and you will have a chance of a strong marriage--but not if you're drinking.

Facing the truth bites, it just does. But living in fear and self-pity hurts much worse. You will not become much of a better anything (human, wife, worker, friend) if you're sloshed, even periodically sloshed.

I've been applying the MB program for such a short time, and I'm already seeing how I need to do it because it's the right thing to do. When I was drunk, the right thing to do was (you guessed it) drink, then dodge the awareness of the magnitude of my drinking. Then I would feel sorry for myself, then drink to make that horrendous pain of awareness disappear. If you'd like to keep doing that, then by all means, do. Just be aware that you and/or your marriage might not survive it.

You're essentially saying "I need help, this hurts so badly, I can't stop, but please tell me HOW I can stop." Alkies in general are pretty thin-skinned. That skin thickens up when we get sober. You aren't that unique. That's just a fact.

Your implication that you are the adult and ML and others are childishly posting to you is indicative of your refusal to either take action on your problem, or of a misguided 'need' to feel superior as a safety net. That's dangerous emotional turf for you. I wish I could infuse you with the good feelings that come with being sober, but I can't. you have to go get them yourself, because it's your feelings. (Thanks to HT and SWMi for teaching me that-again-yesterday.)

And to think all this high drama stems from someone pointing out a true fact. Wouldn't it be easier to admit that "yes, that is a true description" and move on to the next post? Look at the extremes you have gone to in order to prevent posters from pointing out the truth?

Hi FT, I've not been drinking since I first posted. Funny enough, after posting with you the desire has faded well more than I expected. There have been moments that if there were something at home I recognized I would have gone for it. There is something to be said for not having it around. I'd have to make a choice to go get it, and I'm choosing not to.

I do appreciate all of your kindness.

Not drinking is an awesome beginning. However, it's just that: a beginning. To stay stopped, you'll need to change your whole lifestyle. That's what AA can do for you. After some sobriety (I imagine others who got here and then cleaned up will speak better on this than I), you'll be better able to tackle the MB program.

First things first: keep drying out, day by day. Just don't drink at all today. (Commit to this each morning.) Keep going to AA. Talk to the veterans here to determine if you're ready for the MB program. Check in, it's okay. Under the harshness here is a whole lot of empathy and a desire for you to be happy and have a fantastic marriage.

Thanks FT. I'm actually very happy in my M. The worst I can say is H could help around the house more. Even with that, I see him making an effort which I appreciate so much.

Just thinking of that makes me wish I could stop by his work for a kiss

What can we do for you? � MelodyLane, 15 June 2011, 6:29pm

Make me admit something I guess I have to. � rtt, 15 June 2011, 6:46pm

Great news.

Thank you It feels good.

rtt, i've missed a few days here, came on earlier and finally made it to your post.

Please don't attack the hands reaching out to help! It's so easy to do and so hard to repair!

rtt, I've read all the posts since my last one, and I need to ask you something.
(edited to add the question!)

rtt...can you admit to yourself first, us second, that you are an alcoholic?

One of the first things I remember having to do, was admit to myself, first, then to others, that I was indeed, an alcoholic and yes, a drunk! It's easy to sit back and say, wow, look at that drunk over there, when in a bar, easy for me to stand and see my mother, a drunk loser, sitting at the table at 7 in the morning, drunker than snot, but it's so very hard to look at ourselves in the mirror and say the same thing.

You need to be honest with yourself, first, with others next. Denying the truth is not going to work, not if you truly want to recover!

I have not heard you say anywhere in this thread that you are an alcoholic. I have heard you lash out at anyone suggesting you are a drunk. Those words are one and the same hun, one and the same. Only difference? One word is far easier to spell and type.

These people are trying to help you! They are some of the best, if not the best, on the board here, and they are trying to help YOU! LET THEM!

NeverGuessed posted this: (I changed colors I'm sure, and did not put the quote boxes on here)

What can we do for you? � MelodyLane, 15 June 2011, 6:29pm

Make me admit something I guess I have to. � rtt, 15 June 2011, 6:46pm

ML asked, you answered, now she is trying to do what you yourself asked!!! See how that works?

I'm glad you are finding AA meetings, I'm glad you are trying to get the help you need, and it is needed! But all those meetings, all that help? Won't do anything until you are honest with yourself. Being honest with yourself? means looking in the mirror and say, "yes, rtt, you are a drunk, you are an alcoholic." And once you do? You will feel like a million pounds have been lifted off your shoulders and you will cry. You will cry a lot, it will be deep and gut wrenching. and THEN you start to heal. Only then, will you start to heal.

Alcoholism is a disease. MS is a disease. Be thankful you have one that can be treated.

Admit it to yourself, then when you do, come back and tell the rest of us. Believe me, we UNDERSTAND!!!

ps. I appreciate the puppy offer! I'm a 'cat' person and have my limit of two already!!!

NoStress, you have been great and very helpful. I appreciate you completely.

The adjetive 'a drunk' is degrogatory. When drinking is described as a disease, why would there be an ugly description like that attached to it. Bulemia is also called a disease. If I were here for support of that, would anyone try to force me to call myself 'puke face'?

Cancer is surely a disease. Treatments can interfere with thought processes. Would anyone try to force a cancer patient to refer to themselves as 'chemo brain'?

I need more information to either see this as a disease or addiction. For this time of not drinking, there has been no withdrawel. I gave up cigarettes six years ago. Withdrawel happenened withing three hours.

Cigarette addiction has never been labeled a disease. I also used to over eat. Not for years now. No one ever called that action a disease. I need more information as to what makes a disease or a behavior issue. I've had to correct behavior before and did so. I'm doing so now. Still not drinking.

If this is in fact a disease I'm working with, what would give any other board member a right to hammer at me terms I don't accept and try to force a term on me? If it was clearly a disease that unfortunately can happen, would such a member come back again and again after being asked not to?

I believe some people who have accepted having a 'disease' here, don't show the same respect, not meaning you, as I believe they would if this issue required medical treatment as apposed to self control. It leaves many questions.