I do believe you are right I sure hope so!

Hey wow
So hear is where I wonder about the ability for us BSs to pickum

Yes first W was just a kid, but she knew right and wrong , and she chose wrong over right whole married
It was not just a substance abuse issue though that's bad enough if it goes as far as full blown addiction. She could handle her substances and pulled herself back to reality when we rarely if ever drank after we got married.
It was not just that she was hit on by other guys and allowed it more than I liked, and then denied it to my face and made me have to put up with it,( what an insult to my intelligence , like I can't tell)
It wasn't the sneaky 17-20 yr old wild-child crap she pulled as I pretended not to notice before we got married, like hanging around with an " old family friend" who happened to be a jobless pothead that I even fed for awhile ." It's innocent you worry to much". Yeah well she knew I was a seriious guy, and even if this guy coulda used a beating, in my world I grew up in and at that time, he would have been dead.

So I let things go, knew that we were making sweeping changes, understood about the age thing and habits and behaviors, and I had made a commitment to her, her dieing father, and more important to myself, that I would take care of her. At that time keeping those commitments meant more than anyone else breaking theirs Doormat maybe? Or strong young man trying to lead?

As most of the rebellious people on the earth, lieing, stealing and cheating must be the fun I was missing out on again, but this time I wasn't buying into it. "Aw they will catch on " Yeah right

I guess I was just to seriious for her and didn't catch on, didn't fit whatever mold it took at that age, I started to work hard to catch up on what I needed to change and become that dreaded" responsible" that I along with many other youths had grossly misunderstood.

Then we got married. And she stopped the pill to get pregnant although I asked specifically that we would wait until we could afford it so we could accually spend time with our kids and give them everything. Then she only worked part time with a manager who used to hit on her. Then after DS was about a year old she wanted to move out west because she wasn't happy. I gave up a great job and moved out there and worked two min wage jobs just to afford the apt. Then she did go to work, but started not coming home nights, left the house with the ILYBANILWY speech, with leaving me with DS 1 1/2 years old. Returned just as I was leaving, and on the way home told me she was pregnant, but she had been raped, insisted on it though I told her I knew better and said it was alright, people make mistakes, we would work through it.

Six months after we gave him up for adoption, her sister showed up with a bottle of teqiula in one hand and her next husband on her arm, "Time to party"
Hadn't even had time to deal emotionally or heal from the rest and was back at old job and the only one working. Sent W and child back with Sis and havent seen her since

So why post all this? I was attempting to get my life together and was divorced because she hooked up with H #2 when I met my second wife,.
I thought it must have been my fault the first time and what I needed was to be harder on myself . Second W was very supportive and also had some history she had to leave behind, so I let my conscious get the best of me, and buried my guilt in building a new relationship

At the time I was prepared to never leave her, and I let her walk all over me for two years until I couldn't take it, and it was even worse than the first in the long run

I felt that I had become a better man when I stayed in those terrible situations. I also stayed until the bitter end when she passed away.
Always encouraging counsel and attempting change.
It was the classic "Marriage at any cost" and I think I paid for my stupidity and KISA attitude. But if I were to talk to my first W and the question is broached, which it shouldn't be IMO, I would have say I was a better man second time around only because I took it for my children.

Ok guys, what is wrong with me? Oh I know! I'm too nice. Not goin back to what I know about being selfish and nasty, but I guess I just need to balance out a little. I can pull that off in life in general, but when it comes to that "special person", I give it all, thinking I will get it back, if not in this life, then in posterity. Thank God my kids are more normal, but I still want to be more than, "Dad, he's a great guy, but knows nothing about life really, look what happened to Mom". Sure they know she was stubborn and willful, but I didn't have to allow it.
Like I said, thank God they are different

So as far as relationships go, I have picked poorly for all the wrong reasons. A lot of us here have, and so I am not alone, but MJs story reminds me of someone who also extended trust to the wrong type in her first marriage, and like me went from the frying pan to the fire on soulmate number two

Is it to much to believe for a second that letting nasty selfish people cut their own throats while playing Doormat means they have the problem? Is to to much to expect straight truth from them when you ask them what will make them happy? Both my Ws had emotional needs, but what were they REALLY?
I know one thing, I am not a young healthy studly successful provider anymore, lol, so the trophy he's a nice guy and so understanding and good in bed thing is gone. What is really funny is that I will never go on the market again without having those qualities anyway, and I am not at the age of " preparing myself for romance and marrige" anyway. There must be something better to do with my time. Tried to pick up where I left off building a future I could respect when I jumped in with second wife, not into fixing anything or proving anything anymore.

If I am reading all this right most of us consider being married as an important part of who we are. To me it was part of what made me whole. I think that is a mistake. It's rewarding and important if you want children, but it doesn't make you whole, you were already complete before you started.
I'm committed to feeling and knowing that as a priority and I hope everybody "gets" that is part of what recovery is about, and what God is about allways. Marrige ads to us, not taking anything away from us, it's us that makes the compromises , takes the chances, based on our fears.

Never be afraid of that gut feeling that is trying to tell us there is something yet to deal with, many times we learn so late we would have been better off alone

But alone is not a death sentence, it's how we look at it

Sorry for the long post MJ but the convo about being a better man struck a chord

God bless you on the mediation give em hell

Thats such good news, especially the part about finding it hard to remember. Time really does heal all wounds,and good friends and enviroment is so nessesary while we are healing.

Glad to hear it has passed for you, it is passing for me also, even though for the life of me I can't figure out why it is not all gone yet. I guess I still need a vision for the future, and new thought habits.

What makes me mad is that I must force myself to do things I used to do automatically, with gusto and determination, Lol, well it is getting better but its all internal. Guess I gotta trust time and I dont want to.

CP, your post has really gotten my attention, and has me thinking. Some of what you wrote really hits home, as I'm sure it does for many of us BS's.

First, I've seen you use KISA before, what does it mean? That one has me puzzled. Usually I can figure them out.

Don't sell yourself short CP. You have a lot going for you. Even if you don't see it.

Thanks NSZ
KISA Knight In Shining Armor

NSZ. When I read that comment it made me feel pretty good BTW
I felt likeposting this somewhere and because I Telly don't have a thread and I was just talking about first wife in last post, I hope MJ doesn't mind if I post it here
It's not really a question just a statement about a very important part of my life
Please attend to MJ s questions when she comes back cuz she is the one in crisis

Part of my greatest fear when I was young was not being a good father for my son After the problems in the first marriage I was at a point where I thought I was going crazy. I knew my dad had issues and I thought maybe I was "not normal" because of how deeply her affair and the OC and the adoption had effected me.

When I sent them back across country it was with the plan of getting my crap together, sending support money, seeing a shrink and therapist , getting a career that could afford visitation, and eventually having DS spend more time with me. I didn't see how we could recover the marrige, there had been so much damage to my allready fragile whatever you call it,life? But I had not closed the book yet. I didn't do that till she sent me D papers 2 years later.

Around that time I was set to go to school, and it was all part of the plan to do what I knew I should have done before I married and had a child. This was really important to me, and I imagined W and I would have wired together so at least one of us went to colledge when we got married. When it all blew up I was back at stage one again and still young enough to do it right, but my son could not be ignored in my plans, as a matter of fact it weighed on me pretty bad

Probably a combination of fear of college, embarrassment of the mess marrige was, and feeling we could have made it if we worked together, made me choose to get together with second wife, and because she had a. Problem or two, college didn't work out. Yeah I know nobody twisted my arm, but she was insecure about me going to college because of other women, drank to much and was out if control, and I contracted type 1 diabetes, so too much happened and I gave up on classes. Shortly after getting diabetes I got her pregnant

A whole bunch of stuff happened after that but here is the point. When we first got together I learned she had a son who was kiddnapped land as she cried about it it also broke my heart too. We talked about God and life and marrige and our past and what we dreamed of. She knew how important my plans were for straightening out the situation with my son, and how I had made a commitment to myself that that was a priority for me. This was part of what the relationship was built on, that we both wanted renewed time with our kids. She did very little to work on those things ever and helped make it so hard it was not until last year I started a relationship with him.

He told me he never knew what happened between 1st wife and I and why we split. My xMIL always had great things to say about me and also my BIL, but Mom never gave him the story. To bad I would rather she did but the boy is 33 and for. Gods sake he has right to know we both loved each other and him very much, and with fairness to XW and I we just did not know all this crap would happen and it would mess us up so bad

So last nite I spent hours sending him the first of a three part talk I allways wanted to have with him. It dawned on me today how important this had been to me all these years, I had pushed it back so far until I could fix my new marrige and get out and see him for so long, now is the time and it's long overdue.
It's part of a very important issue that has allways been on my subconsuois for 25 years.
It will make me very happy to finally deal with this fairly and objectively so he can know what every child deserves to know. The truth, and that we loved Jim very much.

I told him before I even wrote the first letter this was not gonna be ammo for him against his mom and truthfully I am not gonna cut her down and lay the blame on her anyways.

I also told him to get to MB site and get the books to help him in his marrige. If he doesn't get them soon I will send them to him . I said just do it cuz Dad said to, and he will understand later,

He is a good man and needs the Dad he never had, even if it's late. He had a good support system out there with the extended family and considering the hell I went through with second wife, he was better off there, I think, well it doesn't matter, it feels good to be back in his life

Sorry bout the T/J MJ . I know you'll forgive me.

Hi C.P.! I've been away from the house, staying busy. In a hurry to leave now as well. Just wanted to say.....

POST AWAY!

Have a great weekend! I'll be back when I can. Busy weekend planned.

CP, I went and read thru most of your original thread last night, before I got too tired to keep reading. I understand where you are coming from, with your first son.

After reading this, I spent the last couple hours I guess, typing out my own story of my first marriage, but I won't post it. It's long and as I read what I wrote, it's just not fun reading.

I was the BS in that marriage, another serial cheater like my second husband, only the first was PA's. I know now it was 8 years of fogbabble and some serious gaslighting, but I did not know it back then. By the time I left, I was so much of a nervous wreck there was no way to take my kids with me, it was all I could do to survive. A year later, I had a nervous breakdown, ended up spending the better part of the next six years livng in other states, so did not see my kids nearly as much as I wanted or needed to. This was back in the mid to late 80's after all, there wasn't the support then that there is now.

Add to it, the stigma of a mother leaving her babies, and you might imagine the that I got hit with for many a year.

Enjoy the relationship with your son. I never had that with my dad either, but for totally different reasons.

NSZ, I Tottally get the Screenname now, and glad you are here.

There is a lot to be said about the timeframe you are speaking about, the mid 80s, and what you went thru also, I understand. Being in a rough set of circumstances say Im imagining right now, mid-late 70s getting married, (I laugh at that nerfed reference TV show), and what was going on in the culture really through a lot of us through a loop.

When I met my second wife, she had legal custody of her son that was taken by her first husband twice kidnapped, but back then it was not leagally supported like it is now. In the 80s even if divorced the biological parent of a child could take posession of a child and they would not persue them leagaly per the police department as I heard. I think civil law was different, in other words, there was no gaurantee legal custody was backed up.

The first time she got her 5 year old back but the second time her XH hid out and she couldn't locate him and the law could never be used to procecute at that time. The were no Amber alerts, stuff like that. So that was one of my/our goals, to re-establish contact because it broke her heart.

My original thread as well as a lot of my original posts are very much all over the place. I came here and read for awhile, but understood the concepts quickly because, well, thats what I pretty much was shooting for anyways. Because I had allready lost my W, I was basically here to help others avoid whatever pitfalls they also had fallen victim to, and stabilize my outlook and emotions also.

But posting my whole story, with all the details, since when I got married at first at 18, and over thirty years of detail and how it applied to MB principles, well yeah, it would be daunting task. It would be like a book, would take weeks to compile and recollect, and would not really be much help to those in crisis. So I do make long posts, and most of the time it is to share about a similar circumstance I experienced, to give a full warning if need be to posters, but trying to stick to what is applicable.

In those posts though, I find that putting the story down on print, helps clarify me in what has happened, and is also theraputic<sp>. I will look for your thread, and I encourage you to also put down your long story on your thread, or at least, in your own journal, to help you get it out. Its funny how much we hold inside that needs to get out, ya know? I tell my therapist everything, and even send her copies of my posts sometimes, because of how much I share here also.

Thanks for understanding NSZ, and it must have been hell you have been through. I am glad you are here to help others avoid that, and as I am sure you understand when I say this, "ignorance is bliss" compared to having to go through some things better off avoided. I am reminded of that song by CSN&Y, "Teach your children well", and the one by Mike and the mechanics, "The living years". I think we belong to the group of people that realizes mistakes will be made, and not to let them own us, but yet helping others to avoid the same is the honorable thing to do.


OK gonna go look for your thread, and yeah, wish we had this support back then huh? But very thankful for it now too. It seems God waits till 11:59 sometimes.

thanks CP, see you found my thread! Read thru that and you might get a better glimpse of hell, and I don't even have that part written. It's currently ongoing. My screen name is a reminder to me and calms me, reminding me, not to let life stress me out more than my health can handle.

Guess we should let MJ have her thread back eh?

Thanks MJ for letting us t/j for a bit! Keep your chin up girl, it really does get better! Just might take a while to heal.

Please pray for me. I'm starting mediation in a few minutes. It feels so suurreal.

Praying for you, Sweetie. ((((MJ))))

You can do this stuff. It will be okay.

Praying again.

I know mediation can be rough.

Thank you Kirby. I also called a good friend of mine and asked her to pray for me as well. I think the prayers helped me with my emotions today in mediation, and kept me focused on the task at hand.

There were no deals struck in mediation today. I told the dark side that the judge can decide for us.


I only cried a little today, after the mediation, and it's because of what my daughter just told me. I went and saw her at work after I left the mediator's ofc.

We were under the impression that my daughter had about 2 or 3 months for her HG levels to go down before the possibility of chemo would start, due to the molar pregnancy. She learned today that it's only going to be 2 more weeks. Her HG levels are now at 87, and they'd have to go down to zero to avoid the chemo.

I am asking that anyone who does pray, will pray for her. I am so incredibly sad right now. However, my daughter has the most amazing attitude about it all. SHE is amazing. Thanks again for all the prayers.

MJ

Sorry for the news on both fronts.

You two will be in my prayers.

nESRE

Thank you very much nESRE.

((((MJ))))

Be her rock MJ, as I am sure you are allready.

Prayers going up.

(((((((MJ)))))))) same here, so sorry to hear this. I am not the most religious soul here, but I do pray and will be sending a few your way.

(((MJ)))

I'm praying for you and your dd.

CP, NSZ, Kirby, and anyone else who is praying for my daughter and I, thank you from the bottom of my heart.


A question for anyone.......

I STILL have this numb feeling that stays with me 24/7 since the day my husband left. No matter what I do, I cannot shake it. I feel like I'm just going through the motions, just trying to survive. Even on my really good days, if I stop for one second, I know it's there. Is this normal after he's been gone for 8 months? It's been 10 months since he asked for the divorce.

When I try to get to the "root" of that numb feeling, I always seem to come back to my thoughts of "I can't believe he hurt me like this AGAIN". I guess I'm just still in shock that someone can be that cruel, to anyone.

I'm still in shock that he cared so little for me. His addiction to women and admiration won out over me. I couldn't compete, nor did I want to, at the time. I was trying to heal from a lot. He wouldn't protect the marriage. His needs, nor mine, were met. He found someone easier to meet his needs.

If stbx ever really sees himself, and what he has done to so many, it'll suck to be him.

I pray for all of our healing. Including the woman who is helping him to rip my heart out.