Betterdays, I'm totally fine with you asking a question on here - I've done that too, as a new member. Didn't realize it's taboo. Oops.

Holy Heart, he has been helping financially. We simply couldn't afford the house without both of us there. I'm keeping the kids in their schools, and trying to keep them as close to the old house as possible - same school boundaries, close to friends, etc. I realize they need as much consistency as possible. He was being horrible about the house, fighting constantly, and quit giving me enough to pay for it. It was rent it out and move, or lose it.

I'm not trying to buy the house WITH him. I'm trying to get him to agree to the support I need, and to take responsibility for the other house (it's rented out - not a big deal for him at this point) so that I can buy it BY MYSELF. I plan to go back to school and get my master's degree so that I can pay for it BY MYSELF when my child support gets cut way back in 3 years.

You are all right about the anger (I've let him create way too much in me) and the calm strength. I did all that right in Plan A, but I've blown it since.

Thanks for all the advice and help everyone.

Oh, and Better Days - I didn't have all this info when I started. READ PLAN B (Yes, I've read all of Dr. Harley's books now - I wish I'd had them much sooner). Read "Surviving an Affair." And FOLLOW IT! No matter how emotionally difficult. I think things would be vastly different if I had done it that way. You can likely avoid sinking to the nightmare depths that I have.

Thanks, Rainysweet,

Our situations are similar in many ways...that's why your posts drew me to them.

Just ordered the Dr. Harley books, eagerly awaiting them. But have read 20some other books.

I am dying a death by 1,000 cuts...which is why I need to go into Plan B. To save myself. Doesn't seem like mine is coming back - as you've probably read here over and over - an alien has overtaken my once beyond faithful husband - and he is following the script of all wayturds here.

I'm too new to have any words of wisdom for you. I can only say, that you are not alone. I feel your pain, and am glad we all found MB for support from people who have sadly, been through what we have been before.

May Plan B save us all...if not our marriages, at least from the massive emotional pain. For me it has been 18 months of severe pain - I need some relief!

HELP!!!

So, what if you already messed up and did Plan C big time? (I started this whole mess without all the great info I wish I'd had at the beginning). I did Plan A, on my own - just instinctively, before I read the book - did everything I could to show love to my husband after I discovered the affair. He did a total turn-around, but did keep up a thread of contact with the other woman. He was honest about her occasional text messages or emails. She lived in another state, so there was no physical contact. He was a different man, honestly - the best husband and father he's ever been, honest, apologetic, doing everything he could to change his life.

I asked him to cut things off COMPLETELY. He said he was mostly ignoring her and waiting for it to just die off, it would be easier. I didn't want to create conflict. I'd seen him try to end it more forcefully earlier on, and her ridiculous drama to keep it going. I thought maybe his idea was best. And I saw his genuine efforts to make our marriage what it could have been all along.

Then we had a couple of bad days. She called him - he took the call and talked to her. He got mad over something I did a couple of days later and left. Initially, he didn't have a lot of contact with her - refused her requests to go meet up with her, was still around home a lot of the time, participated with the family, went to counseling with me.

Gradually, he let her get a grip on him again, and slid downhill. We both got uglier and uglier with each other, with all the pain and horribleness involved. I should have cut off all contact the day he moved out - left him with memories of all the love and happiness he'd felt. I didn't.

For 6 months, he was very torn - said he loved me, loved her, felt confused, wanted to come home but didn't want to do it until he could fully commit, etc. The last 3 months, he's a dark, angry, vindictive, empty person who I don't even recognize. He's quit even caring about the kids, tells me how horrible I am whenever I do have any contact with him, wants a divorce but wants to make the divorce hell - no longer willing to keep his earlier generous offers to take care of the kids and me, wants all his money for his girlfriend. Honestly, we've had some ugly confrontations - we'll hear nothing from him for weeks, then he shows up and causes grief.

He'll respond to nothing from the kids for days at a time (of course, they contact him very little anymore), but if my teenage son who's giving me a run for my money (and usually wants nothing to do with his father) gets mad enough at me for trying to enforce rules or consequences to call his dad and badmouth me - my husband will run right over to rescue him and tell me how awful I am, totally enable the unhealthy and unacceptable behavior of my 16-year-old son, just to undermine me. When this happened most recently, I admit, I exploded at him - he leaves me to raise the kids and deal with everything on my own, but shows up just enough to make my life even harder, not to mention the damage he's doing to our son.

He tells me I've turned into a monster. In some ways, he's probably right. Love Busters have been out of control. We have both been horrible. There is no more good together - no positive time at all. There's no love left in either of our love banks - it is all ugly and awful. Last time I tried to actually meet with him to peacefully discuss trying to help our children through the horrible trauma they are going through because of all of this - and the diverse ways it's negatively impacting their lives - he smashed my car windshield 30 seconds into the conversation, and took off (hit it with his fist in just the right spot).

As I said, I've never seen him like this. He is a person I no longer recognize. Obviously Plan C has been a nightmare. But WHAT DO I DO NOW? Does anyone have some real-world advice in this horrible situation? It's easy to say, "Oh, he's abusive scum - divorce him." That may be true (although, as I said - I haven't seen this man in the 25 years I've known him. This affair has turned him into a nightmare, someone he isn't). But the question I can't shake is THEN WHAT? We fight for years in court - me trying to get enough money to take care of the kids - just feed them, not come close to giving them the things they've had with him cooperating at least financially, him fighting for visitation he doesn't want just to get back at me, and then making the kids' lives hell? Being a horrible influence on them?

His parents divorced over his mother's affair early in our marriage. We had to choose which parent to invite to our children's birthday parties, argue over how to accommodate both of them for every holiday, and his mother's new husband - her affair partner (3rd marriage she had ended in an affair, by the way - she was a serial cheater) - was not permitted in our home, by order of my husband. Now he's doing the same thing to his own children.

It's gotten so ugly and awful we can't even talk about the kids, let alone take care of them. His girlfriend runs him, and is a nightmare. She has done everything she can to cut him off from his own children. Meanwhile, she lives at home with hers while her husband continues to take care of her, take care of the kids, be the husband and father my husband never will be. (Yes, he is very aware of the situation and his enabling behavior - I've talked with him myself). They still live in another state, but she and my husband text all day long and get together at least once a month now for a great escape vacation - then go home and take out all their anger and frustration on their spouses (ie: he freaks out at me over the money because he just blew several hundred dollars we couldn't afford to wine and dine the bimbo). I can't see how reality is ever really going to hit this affair, unless he just ends it.

There is no peaceful divorce resolution possible at this point. I can only see more ugliness and awfulness, and a lifetime of repercussions for my children and grandchildren, just like what we are all suffering through now - I can't help but think, in part because of my mother-in-law's horrible example.

My husband did want to come home a couple of weeks ago - said he would end the affair, be decent to me, and raise the kids. But he doesn't love me and said he won't put effort into the marriage; he still has an emotional attachment to the other woman. He just actually began to get a glimpse of what this is doing to our children.

So, I know all the ideal answers and circumstances, and with the info I now have, hindsight is 20/20. But how do I deal with the reality of my ugly situation?

Divorce doesn't end this. In fact, the divorce itself - my attorney has advised me - could end up taking 5-7 years, and costing each of us thousands upon thousands of dollars (that we don't have) if it stays this ugly.

Would I be better off just letting him come home? I can't compromise on the other woman and no contact, obviously. He agreed to end things with her if he came home. But I can't force him to put in effort to repair our marriage.

Even if he was just decent to me, and we could work together to help raise the kids, get back to a point of mutual respect and a degree of caring, that would be a huge improvement. It's possible, that with time at home - him actually being able to see all the good here and get a clearer perspective on the nightmare the affair has been again - and me putting in some effort, with or without him, his heart may start to change again Maybe he actually would begin to put in effort. Even if we didn't build a great marriage, if we could just get to a point of having some respect and caring for each other again, and help our children heal instead of causing more damage, it would be a HUGE improvement from where we are now. We could both show up at our grandchildren's birthday parties, without everyone in the room wanting to run from the animosity in the air.

I don't see how I could possibly be more miserable than I am now. I don't see how any of us could be.

So, does anyone have any advice for how to turn around this Plan C disaster? And word to the wise - anyone considering it, get out now! You do NOT want to go here.

Thanks.

rainysweet, you really should not start new threads with every question!

Oh, sorry. I thought that was what I was supposed to do. Newbie. I'll put it back where it was.

Hi hon,

Just read your plan C nightmare question (click notify and ask mods to merge threads)

You're freaking out. No wonder! Take it one day at a time. Forget his childhood, what he may or may not do in the future - doesnt matter.

Concentrate on you. Some nice treats, focus on what you can do with your life, on your own.

Take some nice peaceful time in plan b. In the quiet you will start to think. There will be a lot of grieving of course. A lot of processing. When you feel stronger, you will know what sort of marriage you are willing to 'settle' for. You will know the level of commitment he will need to show you and what actions he will need to take.

Some people have condition lists, like the ws has to agree to counselling with the harleys, transparent finances, whatever you need to feel safe, and have a fantastic marriage.

Dr Harley has a saying that genuinely recovered marriages dont just survive, they thrive.

Plan B is about making sure YOU thrive. Then you wont accept any half hearted shilly shallying from a still wayward spouse.

But right now, you are so miserable; that your bar is really low. you'll feel better in a bit, so review your list of conditions later.

To answer everyone here - yes, I am controlling (so is he - extremely, but that doesn't excuse me). It's something I've really worked on the last couple of years. I guess that's why it gets to me when he says that - he knows it triggers me, makes me stop and question myself, "Wait . . . am I just being controlling? Is this really unreasonable?" He doesn't have control of himself. The OW does.

He's a jerk. Why is it so hard to let him go? I know why. I saw so much good in him, so much happiness in our family. And it's all gone. Swallowed up in this nightmare. Will he EVER pull out of this?

When he was home, he saw all the flaws in the OW. Now that she runs his life and he does whatever she commands, everything's great. How do they get to the point where they can't stand each other when there's no conflict whatsoever with me out of the picture? How does this affair become "run into the ground"?

Do people really pull their heads out, realize what they've done, and turn their lives around after a divorce?

Indiegirl -

Thanks. You're right - I am freaking out. I do need to calm down. I can't see or think clearly. I partly feel in a panic because I have to decide something legally, one way or the other, to get the house I'm trying to buy for my kids.

Would you just do a legal separation to give you time to think? Or divorce him? Which is better? Is a separation just holding onto him still, and I need to divorce him, completely let him go instead? Or do I calm down with a separation and take more time to think?

Thanks for being so sweet and kind, a calm voice in my hurricane life.

One more thing - would you do a Plan B letter to him, starting it this late in the game? Tell him I'm willing to work on the marriage under certain conditions? (He's said flat out he is NOT willing to work on it, so that means nothing to him right now). Or just cut off contact - quit contacting, quit responding?

Thanks.

This!

Ill let vets chime in but plan b letter very important. I also sent OW a copy so she knew the deal.

This is good when the OW is insecure.

Thanks. I didn't see this post before - sorry. Yes, I have "Surviving an Affair." It doesn't talk about divorce as part of Plan B. Do they ever come back from this after a divorce? Does anyone recover? It just seems so awful, so devastating.

The letter will keep you calm, btw. Whenever you start to freak in plan b, and feel you should contact him you end up saying to yourself 'he knows what he needs to do'. The responsibility is pushed on to him.

Maybe I did see this post, and forgot. Obviously needed to see it again. Thank you for all your time.

Ok. Thanks.

Indiegirl - when you say, "go dark" you mean like disappear from his life? Just no contact at all? Or does that mean something else?

Yes no contact at all - no texts, no emails, dont see him at all, do not answer the door if he comes round, nothing.

You won't have anything left to say to him - you will have said it all in the plan B letter. If he ever decides to abide by the conditions of the Plan B letter, he can tell the IM, who can tell you.

Block both him and OW on Facebook, Change or block your numbers, block his email address, if he sends you a letter/note throw it away unread.

In addition to this, your IM will 'filter' any communication. I.e. If he sends him or her a big angry rant and then tacks on to the end 'ill pick the kids up at three' you will only get the part about the kids.

Your focus is too much on him. Yes you will disappear from HIS life, but the main reason is to get him out of YOURS while he behaves this way.

I dont even let people talk to me about my WH.I live in a small town but have no idea where he is living or what he is doing. Forces me to concentrate on my own plans.

Tell the truth, how much energy do you pour into thinking over the details of life? Into analysing the things he says? checking his or OWs FB page? You need that energy for yourself.

Well said Indie.

Rainy, you should do ML suggested and you should listen to Indie, she has given you some spectacular advice that is bang on.

As far as if you should legally separate or D, would you need to file for a D to get what you need to get legally? If not, you could decide to file for a legal sep first and then file for a D when you are ready. DrH advises to not file for a D unless you want to be divorced. Just make sure that whatever you do, that you are protected legally.

There have been people who have been divorced and then remarried their spouses. It does happen. Just remember that if you file for a D, tell you attorney that you would like to drag it out as long as possible. Tell her that you want reconciliation and that is your goal, but you need to file to protect yourself legally.

Hang tight, your in for a long and bumpy ride.

rainysweet, Scotland is right. Do what you need to do to get legal protection. Dr Harley usually does advise people to file for divorce before going into Plan B regardless, so they will have legal protection. This way you can't lose either way. If your spouse does not come around within 2 years you are divorced and can move on. If he does come around, you can drop the divorce.

And by all means send a Plan B letter! Get the book Surviving an Affair [you really need to read this to understand Plan B] and use the sample letter in it. In the meantime, this thread will give you an idea about Plan B. here