I don't see anything in her posts to indicate her Personal Recovery is suffering at all.

Kirby I think you rock. You are doing great.

Thanks, SW!

Two years ago I was consulting an attorney for the first time. Today, I'm happier and healthier than I have been in years. I have new friends and life is looking good!

I've read plenty of posters that have talked about the advantages of a solid plan-B and I get that as well, and although I m not in a proper plan-B by any stretch, I have had my distance from my STBX WW and see how much better I am for it.

What I have trouble with is when you put kids in the mix, mine are grown and in college now, and even though there will be no custody issues we still have conversations that deal with their well being.

With minor children, if the EX's can get along, I would think it is to everybody's advantage, especially the kids to communicate. Kirby I think your plan using e-mails is a good one. I like the fact that you avoid speaking to himself, but when handing off the kids I could see that happening. I'm sure there are effective ways to even avoid that. But the reality is that if you are both evolved in the kids lives some contact in inevitable.

That's where having a clear plan in place on how you will handle yourself when it does come up is key. If that contact is hurting you emotionally then finding a way to insulate yourself further may be in order.

As I have watched you handle himself, I get the since that you have a good handle on this, and won't let him push you around.

Unfortunately for all of us with kids in the mix, we will be forced to some degree to have dealings with our EX's, at weddings funerals and graduations to name a few, and I don't see away around that except to exclude ourselves, and I'm not going to do that.

That's one of the wonderful things about a divorce is it keeps on giving....... for a life time.

SC!! Dude! How are you doing?

15th depositions !!!!!!!

Fangs are out !!!!!!

I'm so ready to go in there, looking forward to sparing with her lawyer, I can't imagine what he will even ask, except what I have posted here, and there's nothing to run from. WW has seen my thread.

I've got 11 pages of questions so far for the WW, bless her heart......

Started selling the cows, horses go next week. Sad to see them go but I'm ready.

I'm hanging in there, should be back on the board proper in January

Good luck! I'll be praying for the truth to be apparent and for you to have peace through this storm.

Well, SW, you may "think: whatever you wish, but it still doesn't change the fact that this is NOT PLAN B. And when someone is actually in a true Plan B, with NO CONTACT with their WS, they recover more quickly. It HAS been proven, and it is also goes along WITH what DrH suggests. If you feel differently then what DrH suggests about Plan B, why are you posting on MB?

Oh wow, I completely AGREE with Scotland!! Kirby, I hope you go as dark as possible. I am an IM for a couple of people and am directly involved with others who are in the same type of situation as you. With one BW, for example, I can actually tell a big difference in her voice and demeanor when her bully XH contacts her. It is amazing.

I agree you are doing great! But I hope you seriously cut him out. I have been divorced for 12 years now myself and just hearing my XH's voice sends me back into a funk. ugh!

I have 3 of Dr. Harleys books in front of me right now. I just re-read the Plan B section to be sure I remembered it correctly.

You are correct that Kirby is not in a Plan B. So I guess she needs to not use a MB term that way. Bad Kirby. However, your comment above that I bolded does not apply to Kirby at all. She doesn't have a WS. She has a WXH. She is not attempting to recover the marriage or preserve her love for her now XH.

My point really was not about whether she is in an ACTUAL plan B, but rather that her personal recovery is coming along just fine with the way that she is handling communications with her XH.

I post on MB because I want to. I hope I can help people with my comments, same as you. I do not see my comments as being in conflict with Dr. Harley's advice although it is clear you disagree with me on that.

***edit***

Y'all, be nice.

I am not in a Plan B and I should not use the term for myself.

Plan A/B are all about recovering your marriage. I went with Plan D which was completed in March. I am now in Plan Kirby. I am very low contact with XH. I am moving forward and thinking about the future.

I used to have panic attacks when Himself sent me an email. That's not an issue any more.

I sold my wedding band yesterday and am trying to decide what to do with the money. My only regret is that I didn't divorce him sooner. I know I'm not fully recovered, because that will take more time. But I'm working on it and my life is so very much better than it was when I was with him. I feel like I have stepped out from underneath a black cloud and I see sunshine and joy ahead.

I know the feeling. You are fortunate that your dc don't have to deal much with him.

Now for your wedding band....I have been debating what to do about mine. XH bought me a nice 1 caret just before D-Day....I've thought about saving it for ds to use when he is ready to get married....I wonder if it would bother me by then?

I am afraid I can't get much out of it though....how did you fare on yours?

I did not have my engagement ring any longer. It disappeared about ten years ago. I think the maid may have stolen it. XH wasn't willing to buy a replacement and we did not have it insured. The diamond was less than 1/2 caret, so it wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

What I sold was my original wedding band and a gold chain. I got $185. I also have a second wedding band that I bought about 5 years ago (because the original one did not fit). I still have it somewhere. I think.

Oddly enough, since I have lost 25 pounds and my arthritis has improved due to going gluten free, I could wear the original one again. I wore it to the store. It was very freeing to take it off and get that check.

Maybe you could keep the diamond from your ring, but sell the setting?

It is a beautiful caret solitaire. Just a plain thin band....so the value is in the diamond. Maybe ds could have it reset someday...

Kirby, thanks for clarifying that you are not in Plan B.

To Smilingwoman, for someone who claims to understand Plan B, it is clear you don't even understand the purpose. Plan B is *NOT* to "recover a marriage." it's purpose is to protect the mental and physical health of the BS. It does not matter if the WS is current, former or whatever, if that person causes stress to the BS, the solution is Plan B. If you listen to the radio show you would have heard Dr Harley recommend this to spouses, even years after the divorce.

Scotland's point is correct, that if your goal is to be in Plan B, it has to be air tight to be of any effect. She knows this for a fact and was absolutely correct when she made this point. There is no such thing as a limited plan B, you either are or you arent if that is your GOAL.

And I understand that is not your goal, Kirby, and that is perfectly fine. But the point needs to be made that Plan B is very specific and I think that is what Scotland was trying to say.

As I understand the Plan-B intent is to protect what feelings a BS has left for their WS while the A continues and the BS is done with trying to Plan-A the WS. It is not an ideal solution to recover the M, but it can push the WS fully into the OP's arms and add pressure to their relationship which hopefully will fail as the A fantasy sees the light of day.

In the SAA book Dr. H has the Plan-B an integral part of a recovery when the BS is at their limit of a Plan-A, if the BS is unable to brake up the A. It is to protect the BS from further abuse from being exposed to the WS's continued behavior.

Maybe I completely miss read Plan-B's intent, but what I read was it is a tool to help a BS buy time in hope of a recovery.

I certainly see it's benefits after a D. No question about it. Any contact no matter how limited will evoke an emotional response and slows the recovery. I would expect that even years later that seeing an EX will evoke feeling that will have to be dealt with.

That said, I see the benefit of limited contact for the sake of the children. Being flexible, as both parents deal with life events while juggling schedules. I couldn't imagine excluding myself from events my children were participating in because of possible contact with the EX.

Definitely it is a individual choice that evolves multiple factors.

NOW on to the fun stuff ........

Kirby, I would think I would spend the money on something perishable, like a concert, spa trip or big night out on the town. That way you don't have something that every time you use will remind you of himself.

Although, toilet plunger might be appropriate.

This is true. But the main purpose of Plan B is to protect the BS from the WS, period. It is not intended to save a marriage and Dr Harley doesn't say that.



Sure, it protects the remaining feelings of a BS but that is only relevant to a BS who wants to save a marriage. Dr Harley has told many a divorced person to go into Plan B when continued contact with a WS is too stressful. Very few divorces are "amicable" [16%] so it makes sense for many people to cut off contact.

Right now I know of TWO BS's who were counseled by the Harleys to go to Plan B who are either divorced [1 year past final divorce] or who are divorcing and have no intention of saving their marriages. I have been in Plan B myself from my XH for about 8 years. Believe me, I have no intention of getting back with him! I am not trying to retain my feelings for him; I am trying to protect my feelings FROM him.


If there is stress between the parents, there is no benefit to limited contact. The divorced MB member that I mentioned above [I am her IM and she has been divorced for a year] is still in Plan B because any contact with her WS is very stressful to her. I can even tell the difference in her voice when she has been in contact.

I am not arguing for or against Plan B in a divorced situation, but just wanted to make clear that many people who are years into recovery - and divorced - DO utilize Plan B. Many have done this at the direction of Dr Harley, and he continues to direct people to do this on his radio show.

So when someone says they are in Plan B but they have continued contact, it is confusing to others because that is not Plan B. But as Kirby pointed out, she is in Plan Kirby, not Plan B and that is all right.

Not to beat this horse to death [sorry, Kirby!] but there was a radio call fairly recently from a divorced betrayed husband about his anger towards the OM. His wife had divorced him and married the OM.

This BH was in a constant state of rage because he was forced to pick up his child from the WW and OM's house. Dr Harley told him to go into Plan B and have someone else pick up and return the child for him. He had no intention of getting back with her at all. The only purpose of Plan B was to protect him FROM the situation.

It's no problem, Melody. In fact, I think it's important to get that information out there for other people to read.

I had several months earlier this year when my WXH was causing me a lot of trouble. His lawyer would write my lawyer a letter threatening all kinds of weird things or demanding changes to the custody schedule, and my lawyer would contact me and I had to deal with stress of figuring out how to handle the problem PLUS spend the money. It was a major pain and it was all done through an IM.

I finally told my attorney that I'm not going to back down on ANYTHING and that he would have to take me to court and tell it to the judge. After I got hard-nosed about the custody issues, WXH quit sending threats through his lawyer.

I guess it's not fun to try to abuse me through the legal system when I stand up to his bullying. I felt very empowered when I started telling my attorney to ignore the crazy stuff and tell them no to stupid demands. The last few communications didn't bother me at all.

If I were still dealing with lots of stress from the WXH, I would be in the market for an IM. That's just not where I am any more.

I'm so very thankful for all the people here on this board who have helped me through this horrible time in my life. Y'all have been wonderful!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{[Kirby}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I know it is hell and I applaud you for working through it.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

In my case, the ONLY stress my XH causes is me is how he affects my son. And there is zero way to avoid that because I am not going to tell my son, 'don't speak your father's name to me.' I am his mother and I will be mothering him.