It really sucks that congress has to get to the point it got to last week and still couldn't find the nerve to actually balance the budget.

But it happens. Folks "see" peril all the time, yet don't take the action needed. Instead, they borrow more money and kick the can down the road.

It really sucks that someone has to get so fed up and allow unacceptable behavior to go on for years and years before they find the voice to tell their spouse how they really feel.

Yet that's what you did. Why didn't you just leave the first time he did something unacceptable?

So it's OK for you to delay being open and honest about how his behavior impacted you, but it's not OK for him not to get it, even though you probably were not telling him the full truth of how his actions impacted you.

OK, I see, more double standard. You have valid reasons for your actions, but his are inexcusable.

Because that's what your story looks like from this vantage point.

Enlightened...I don't believe you've read my posts entirely. I've never "delayed being open and honest about how his behavior affected me" I've talked to him about it or years.

The countless times I've approached him him either hurt and crying or angry that it won't stop is unbelievable. Asking him to go to counseling, anger management, telling him I wasn't happy. I'm not even sure where you come to the conclusion that I've "waited to tell him how I feel" if you've read my posts. Unless you have my situation confused with another

Leann,

I'm going to come at this from a different point of view. You mentioned that your husband keeps whining that if you leave how much it will hurt your son. Your son is already hurt. He is being damaged by his father. As a grown-up, you are much better equipped to deflect your husband's barbs. A child doesn't have that capability. If you need a definitive reason to separate, here it is. Do it for your son. Demonstrate to your son that, not only is his father's behavior unacceptable, it's cruel and unforgiveable. I hope you're able to disregard whatever your husband says to get you to stay. He's playing you and he'll continue to play you in every way and any way that will get him what he wants. He is not considering your feelings. He's trying to guilt you and apparently he's being rather successful. Call your own shots. You really are in charge of your own life and the life of your child's. Good luck.

OK, leave then. You don't need to convince us. If it's the right thing to do, then just do it.

I had a very good CoDA meeting last night. I'm still what they call "in the fire" of chaos and insanity. :-)

They say baby steps. Progress not perfection. I've got to quit focusing on how he feels and focus on how I feel. I've got to quit feeling guilty as I've done no wrong. The mere fact that I just told my husband "i'm sorry but i didn't check out of our marriage to hurt you I did it to protect myself from being hurt" says that I'm still feeling responsible for his emotions.

This morning when we got into the car to go to work he was adjusting the passenger seat. Made a little sigh noise like he was frustrated and said "who have you had in the car with you?" I said "no one outside our family why?" He says "well SOMEONE keeps moving this seat". It wasn't WHAT he said but the way he said it. Not only did he sound angry or frustrated but the way he looked at me and his tone indicated he thinks there's something else going on. My son always adjusts the seat so he can lie back.

Last night we had some loud thunderstorms. My little dog (bichon frise) dribbles when he gets scared or too excited. He'd dribbled a line from the livingroom into the kitchen. At least I have hardwood floors! lol. Anyhow, I cleaned it up, let him outside to go potty if there was anything left. My husband asks "why don't do anything to that stupid dog for pissing on the floor!" I said because it's not like he squatted or hiked a leg and pee'd. It was an accident. He was honestly upset and thought I should discipline the dog.

My point here is EVERY TINY thing in our life "upsets him". He's been behaving like a king the last week or two while I've wondered ONCE AGAIN maybe THIS time he's really going to change. Am I really doing the right thing? Then telling myself yes I am. Feeling so confused some days yet see such clarity others. I guess his "honeymoon" phase as they call it is drifting away. One of the known phases in the cycle of abuse. Patricia Evans has a really good book called "the verbally abusive man, can he change". She sure does nail it all on the head. Every therapist, book, etc says they simply CANNOT change on will alone. And he thinks seeing a therapist is "stupid and a waste of time" that he can do this on his own. Guess he's proving them all correct.

Today I'm seeing clarity.

Leann, I'm going to hit this from a different angle. I was someone who did exactly the above. I didn't find the voice to tell my H that his LB's were draining my love for him. Yes, I cried, I argued, but that is not the right way to tell someone that you are hurt by their behavior.

Because I couldn't communicate that to him in a way he could understand, I didn't give him a chance to change. I ended up having an A and allowing someone else to meet my needs. That has pretty much destroyed any chance that he and I will ever have a romantic and fulfilling M.

That said, people can and do change; however, they have to recognize what is broken in themselves and try to fix it. Whether that is verbally or emotionally abusive behavior patterns, whether it is weak boundaries, whatever it is, a motivated individual can change.

Yes, maybe change can come too late. For my M, the changes I've made in myself likely will make no difference, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to fix what is broken in myself. And there's always hope that maybe one day, my BH will see the changes in me and will begin to trust that they are real. Who knows.

I can't tell you whether to stay in your M or not. All I can say is that it is possible for a person to recognize the broken and weak parts of him or herself and to take steps to change for the better.

Just my $.02.

Edited to add - I just read your last post - yes, he does have to be self-motivated to change. It's all about learning to retrain his thought patterns. You can't "make" him find that motivation, so I see where you are coming from. But if I could have done my M right, it would have been to find MB before I'd had an A, obviously, but to have put into place a well-executed Plan A/Plan B strategy as in the article, When to Call it Quits

Leanne, in relationships virtually anything is "possible". The question is whether the desired outcome is probable, and enough so to warrant your continued time, effort, and pain, AND the compounded damage to your children. Look honestly, camly and rationally at yourself, your husband and your situation, and you will find the answer.

There will always be some people who will criticize you. Sometimes those criticisms are based on a deeply entrenched personal grievance at how some "battle of the sexes" played out in their own life. Those persons are easy to spot. Resist the urge to engage. Hit "ignore".

Thx kerala. Funny how it can be so complicated yet be so simple when you phrase it like that.

And yes, sometimes hitting ignore is pretty hard. When your like "what!!?? really? omgosh..." anyhow..

My daughter is pro divorce for me. She's in her 20's been on her own for a few years. She's lived this with me till she moved out and knows my situation better than anyone else. She's being very supportative of me and agree's that it's best for my son to "show him" this isn't acceptable. I sure don't want him entering his own relationships thinking the womans role is to meet his needs and give him sexual pleasure.

Speaking of sexual pleasure. guess where my husband got his "lesson" about women/sex etc?? When he turned 13years old. (the SAME age as my own son!!) His mother decided it was time for him to "learn what it's all about" and subscribed him to Penthouse! I was floored when she told me that. She's an elderly lady now and I can't even imagine doing that to my son. There are many things and other behaviors about him I've not mentioned on my thread anywhere that this explaines. His whole idea of the womans role is really messed up. If i ever tried to like hold his hand or come up behind him to give him a hug or something he would either want sex or respond with "stop! what are you doing?" type reactions. I will never forget about 5 years ago when I asked him why he doesn't like showing or receiving affection he responded "I like affection, you just gotta pull it out first". I never tried affection with him again after that. Sickening.

This is my point. I see the OP engaged in enough LB behavior on her own, DJ's about her husband and what not, that it's not as clear cut as she suggests and that from her own description of events.

She certainly has an idea of how her husband "should" be, such as her expectations around him liking affection, and if he doesn't like it the right way then he's broken.

I've yet to see where she's done a good plan A, eliminating her LB behavior and seeking to meet his needs to see if she has any real influence on the situation.

All I see is plan "FU."

What difference would 60-90 days of a solid plan A make? Maybe it's wasted time. Maybe it would show her that if she followed the plan and worked on her side of the street, what her husband sees would be motivation to do his part.

Maybe not.

But plan "FU, I'm leaving" doesn't allow anyone to grow. Not the OP, not her husband.

I respect your difference of opinion Enlightened. I'm seeing a therapist, coda meetings and have read a very good book about verbal abuse.

It discusses tools to transform a relationship and that change is possible if given the right circumstances. Advice to determine if an abuser can change and signs he is changing or not changing. According to her knowing how to motivate him is essential. A key way to motivate a verbally abusive man is to awaken him to what he is doing and do so in such a way that he realizes that he is acting irrationally and harmfully. It�s basically a good guide for �waking up the abusive man� � but not in all cases. Some men have symptoms of a deeper problem. She as well as others that are experienced all say he will need help changing. Like therapy. I�m not in a position to help him change. I have much too many issues I�m working on myself. I�m not a therapist nor do I claim to be. If I knew the answers I wouldn�t be in the situation I am now. None of us would.

As far as my not have worked on a plan A as far as you can see. Seriously, I cannot possibly put 18years on this thread. Meeting his needs I have done previously. Like I said on an earlier post, I have tried so many different methods of approach that have been suggested to me. I've read this marriage builders site before. Quite a few years ago I read so much of it every single day. I did the deposits. I dedicated myself to trying to follow different suggestions including from this website. During that particular time my "giver" was in control and his "taker" was in control as Dr Harley puts it.

We all have our personal opinions as to what�s right, what�s wrong, what may work and what may not. But one thing that is consistant is that each of us are responsible for ourselves and our behaviors. My bad behavior has been codependency. I�ve played a doormat to everyone in my life. And supposedly it started when I was young. You do what you have to do to survive.

I�ve not mentioned my childhood yet because it�s just too lengthy. But we had what they call shame based discipline. My parents were just demented. I disassociated myself from my entire family when I was 15 and never looked back. To this day I keep the door closed on them all by choice. Examples:

You were tied to the electric fence for punishment
For bedwetting they put your nose in your urine for an hour or dad pee�d in the toilet and stuck your head in it

When I was approx 7 and mom caught me �discovering� myself, my punishment was her ripping my clothing off, lining all 5 of my siblings and the 4 cousins that were over that day in a circle and made me repeat what she caught me doing in front of them all on the living room floor

I recall dad taking my older brother out to the side yard and beating him. Literally kicking and kicking while my brother was curled up in a ball screaming �please daddy please!!!!!� When dad was done he walked past me and said �there! Are you happy now?!� I was the one that told on my brother that day so I was at fault was my belief.

I spent most all my childhood trying to protect my siblings from my parents. I lied for them, took blame for them. When I failed I felt responsible for my parents anger. I took this into adulthood with me. Responsible for others emotions. Do whatever it takes to make others happy. completely disregarding any wants or needs I may have. Right now I'm learning to take care of me. I'm learning I'm responsible for me and no one else. Not their emotions, not their behaviors.

Anyhow, I have learned behaviors myself I�m working on. I don�t have the energy to work on a relationship and I am not healthy enough myself to work on the relationship nor do I want to anymore.

And regardless of what anyone says. Any therapist, book, people on a message forum.... if I'm not emotionally in this marriage and not willing to try anymore then it simply won't work. Some will consider this very wrong others very right. But it doesn't matter. I've checked out of this marriage with no desire to check back in. That's a fact not an opinion.