I know I posted yesterday looking for the sample NC yesterday, thank you Melody for that.

I promised I would come back and post my story. I first would like to thank RidicSit for helping me find this site. I know her from another place and she's been holding my hand since I found out about the affair. Without her I'd not be nearly as far along right now as I am.

As my siggy says, my DDay was July 8th. Though I had suspected since June 24th when I found a necklace in my husbands car that had been given to him by the OW.

My husband is a restaurant general manager and she was an hourly employee. I caught it fairly early on, and it was most definitely an EA and had begun to get physical, but had not yet crossed into sexual, but was headed that way, quickly. They would kiss at work, after closing when all employees had left at length, or during work, when other employees were not around, briefly. Had I not caught it when I did, he fully admitted, and the opportunity for sex had arisen, he would have taken it. Based on both of their actions, I think this would have been within days.

As I said I suspected when I found the necklace and he lied about it. Said it was a gift from a customer. While gifts aren't uncommon, it's usually during the holidays, and typically they aren't sprayed with perfume first. I however, let it go until i could get solid proof, which I did within two weeks, and it was text messages. I was never able to view the texts because they were deleted, but I was able to view that he had over 800 texts and he was not a texter, unless it was to me, and I most certainly wasn't texting him until 3am in the same house while I was asleep. I also caught him on a spanish translation site, which he hid and lied about. She's hispanic and can not type enlish very well so she'd text in spanish and he'd have to translate it.

Once I had solid proof, I traced the number, paid to find out who it belonged to, and knew it was someone he was working with. He had been texting me all day, apologizing for lying to me that morning about the spanish site (said he was trying to learn spanish to speak to his employees. He's worked with spanish speaking employees for 10 years, he communicates just fine with them). Yet he was texting her in between texting me.

So when I called him, I asked him who he had been texting all day long. He basically was like "uhhhh, what do you mean? I've only been texting you." I said no, who is XXXXXX at such and such number. THen shocked silence, then he said it's an employee. And I basically said what have you done??? Then I told him if he had any hope at all of fixing our marriage, to come home NOW. And that if he called her, because I could check, verizon is up to the minute accurate, his bag would be on the front porch. I hung up on him, and then called her. I asked if she worked at his restaurant and she said yes. I then stated who I was. She then said, I had the wrong number. I said, no, I don't. She then said she couldn't speak english and hung up on me. So I texted her. I don't even remember what I wrote other than something along the lines of he's married with 5 kids to support, keep your damn jewelry and stay away.

Then, I called his mother and told her.

Then I got in the shower and cried until he got home.

Then I became numb.

Once he finally got over his fear and came in the house, I had my oldest watch my youngest, we shut the door and that's when the confrontation began.

I told him he had one chance to come clean. Because if he didn't, that was it. I would not be lied to over and over and over again.

I laid out my conditions. That he had to end contact immediately, that I had to approve it before he sent it. That he had to live a life of full transparency. That he had to go to therapy both with me, and individually due to some PTSD and abandonment issues that he has. That he had to understand he was going to have to work through the hard parts to get us back on track and if he couldn't handle that, then tell me now because I wasn't going to work on our marriage alone.

He agreed to all of these.

He admitted that he was involved with her emotionally. It started out as a friendship and then became physical at work but it hadn't gone outside of work...yet. But if the opportunity had presented itself he would have. He admitted they both said they loved each other. He admitted that he had been living in a fantasy world and he was saying what ever he could to get to that ultimate goal of sex.

I had him do a text version that night of a NC letter. She replied, to which *I* then responded to her saying who I was, that I knew everything and to stop contact.

The next morning his phone number was changed.

I have all his passwords, but their contact was never over e-mail, she doesn't have a computer. It was all via text or in person at work.

He stayed home for 3 days. When he went back to work, she too was working that day. I did not tell him, I just showed up at his work, with our kids to have dinner with him. After she started her shift. I needed to see her, and I wanted her to see me. I did not approach her however. I did not want a confrontation with her because of potential harrassment issues.

After I left, she started crying and another employee came to my husband and said the OW was sick. She was trying to draw him in emotionally I'm sure. She went back to his office, but he left the door open, as well as there is a camera in his office (nothing ever happened inside his office.) at that point she told him she afraid of me (what??), was I coming back and he said he didn't know. (He didn't, I told him I had the right to come whenever I wanted). She then put in her notice. I can't say I was sad at that.

Her last day was supposed to be July 20th.

Until then he changed his schedule to avoid working with her completely. She was part time so it wasn't difficult for him to do this.

On July 18th she went to another manager and asked for a couple more weeks in order to have more time to find another job. The other manager who knew nothing about the affair said ok. My husband told me immediately when he found out, and also continued to change his schedule to avoid her.

On July 30th, he called me on his way in to work and told me another manager had called him and told him she had just called in and quit. I was thrilled. I didn't really delve too much into the why's of it at that moment.

Tuesday night I was asking him some probing questions, jsut because I've gotten a lot of "I don't remembers" which, I know are lies. I told him that I need to know in order to heal. I'm in my anger phase of my grief and right now I really have pressing questions that I need to know, and I think some of it was triggered by her quitting. I also had a solo therapy appt that morning, and my therapist agreed, he's liking about not remembering. During that conversation, it came out, that she had come in last week on one of her days off to talk to one of the other managers about her hours. After that, she approached my husband, in the main restaurant, and asked him if I was still mad at her. (Really??? I mean, REALLY??) And he told her that yes, I was angry at both of them. And that I was contemplating telling her husband (I'll get into that in a minute). At that point, she asked him to ask me not to, because she was afraid he'd send her back to El Salvador and keep her kids here, so pelase don't tell him. and she left. The next day she quit.

So, yes, as you can see, she is married, she also has 4 kids. I have exposed to my family, his family, several friends. I did not to her husband yet. My reasons were because I was afraid of the possibility that in turn, they would retaliate and file a sexual harrassment lawsuit against my husband since he is her boss. Even though the affair was NOT coerced in any way, shape or form. He no longer has the necklace, he threw it away after I found it, we'd only have text messages as proof. And I'm not sure that would be enough. I wouldn't care if he lost his job, he could get another one, but I don't know how a lawsuit would work. That was my only hesitation. I don't much care if her husband finds out, that's her marriage, her issue. If she was afraid of him finding out, she should have thought about that BEFORE engaging in a relationship with a married man. I believe she saw my husband as some sort of escape for her, and well, whatever. And my husband saw her as a means of attention, made him feel wanted. But that was my hesitation in exposing her husband. Also, the language barrier. I'd have to find someone to translate for me, which I have someone now. I did also find out, JUST THIS WEEK, that she does not have a greencard, just a work visa. So now at this point, I do not think a lawsuit would be likely from her. But I don't know if her husband would persue one or not. Feel free to help me think this one out though.

I have exposed in every other area though.

We are currently in therapy. Our therapist is very aware of MB and inf avor of MB. She has seen us once together and each of us seperately so far. He has another solo appt on Monday.

I have the books, how to survive an affair, HNHN, Love Busters, HNHN for parents and one other one I can't think of at the top of my head. But also a Harvey one.

The weekend after DDay he spent the entire weekend reading as many articles on MB that he could. He had an awakening of sorts and realized a lot. Especially about meeting emotional needs and the love bank and being a giver and a taker. (He said he had been a taker our entire marriage).

Now, as to the why's of everything.

The why's are deep. And none of it is an excuse at all. NONE.

Now, firstly, my husband has really really low self esteem. *I* don't see him as a failure in everthing. He does, always have, I don't know why. He needs help with this. But I've known for years he has self esteem issues. So does his mother (hello hence why she's with an abusive aldoholic after his dad left her).

Second, he has abandonment issues that stem from his father, he was a cheater and left his mother because he couldn't "choose" who he loved more. Not just from the affair and leaving them, but his dad just was never ever there for him emotionally. Ever. He doesn't care about him. We haven't spoken to his father in 7 years and I know it kills Matt. I had to e-mail his father and ASK him to call him on his 30th birthday. I mean seriously? He's never met his 3 youngest grandkids and doesn't care, but he's very involved in his second wifes grandkids lives. When his father left, his mom checked out. He was only 14 and basically left to raise himself from that point on. She took out a lot of her frustration and anger out on him. She's admitted that. But he never had the tools to deal with any of his emotions.

Third, he's got PTSD issues. Some from 9/11 and the pentagon. He worked there on 9/11. Mostly however, from my health. 4 the past 4 years I've been in a health nightmare. It started when I was pregnant with our last. During the pregnancy I had to have emergency gall bladder surgery when I was 16 weeks pregnant. When I had my gall bladder out it WAS serious. It had exploded and all the infection inside literally went everywhere. I had started to go septic. When they opened me up the surgeon thought I had cancer because it was such a mess. it had attached to my liver and intestines. The surgeon had to scrape it all off/out. In doing so my liver started bleeding and I lost a lot of blood. They told my husband that I may not survive. That my son likely would not survive. I didn't know all of this because he didn't tell me. I had to have a blood transfusion because I lost so much blood. He thought I was going to die and that made him feel abandoned again and it made him start to build a huge wall between us as a coping/defense mechenism.

Then 6 months later they realized they had left gall stones behind and had to go back in, this caused an e-coli infection. I had a 3 month old baby by then. It was the holidays. Right after that, my oldest was diagnosed with aspergers. I fell indo a deep depression and for a brief period of 3 months I began to misuse my pain medication as a means of escape. I realized the issue, admitted it to him and put myself into therapy immediately.

6 months later, I suddenly started having more health issues. It started with severe back pain. Months of testing and no answers. They did a random blood test after I passed out at a girl scout meeting and realized I was severely anemic. They hospitalized me for a blood transfusion and realized I had severe bleeding ulcers.

For two years these ulcers just would not heal despite all treatment. I was having endoscopies every two months. I was on 8 meds a day. I was still in therapy to deal with the on going depression and anxiety from this. Then in January of this year my gastro said I needed surgery to remove 1/3 of my stomach because the ulcers were just eating me from the inside out. Well, my last surgery didn't go so well. Anxiety abound. But we went for it. The surgery went amazingly well, thankfully. But 7 days in the hospital and a 12 week recovery.

8 weeks after my surgery I had my first mammogram and they told me they saw something suspicious and needed to do a biopsy. The dr. screwed up on one breast and I got a huge infection/abcesses in one breast that took 6 weeks with a surgeon to fix and now one breast is permanantly disfigured.

Literally the past 4 years for my health have been a nightmare. And as I had continued health issues, those walls got bigger and thicker. THAT is what I think is the crux of the issue.

He is also an online gamer (world of warcraft) and would often ignore me and the family for his gaming. HUGE fighting issue over the past 4 years. He used this as his escape for a lot of his stress issues.

But, finally by June, I was healthy again. I was able to focus on us. I began to plan things for us so we could reconnect.

This was all a symptom of his deeper emotional issues. And the bigger his walls got, the further *I* withdrew. Because he was NOT meeting my emotional needs at all. And me withdrawing was making him feel abandoned. Not that this in any way excuses anything. but it makes me understand HOW it began. How we became vulnerable.

Does this make sense?

Again, NONE of it excuses him at ALL. But because he was not connecting with me emotionally, and they started being friendly, and gave him that necklace, it opened that door. It started to make him feel an emotional connection again. Albeit with the wrong person. And instead of being smart and stopping and saying no, I need this connection with my wife, he went into fantasy land in his mind and got that rush and went where that emotional connection felt strong at that time. Which, was with her, not me. And he felt wanted and desired.

And because I was dealing with my own health issues, not feeling emotionally connected to him because he was involved with his gaming, I was withdrawn emotionally.

He said she made him feel wanted. That when she came in to work and looked at him she was excited to see her. When she talked to him, she focused on him. And that for years, he hadn't felt that. And well, neither have I.

And that's just scratching the surface.

But, since then, we have been trying so very hard to communicate. THere have been many bumps. Like I keep pulling details out of him. Like at first I got the I don't remember when i first kissed her, or I don't remember who said I love you first. I have gotten those detials now because I made sure he knew how important that was to me in order to heal. I NEED those details. Ridic told me about Joseph's letter and I used that to help me when I talked to hima bout how I need those pieces of the puzzle to know what I'm dealing with.

I told him that ANY contact starts the clock over. He doesn't seem to be having much withdrawal at all, but I highly think this is because he's so emotionally withdrawn/shutdown. I think she was MUCH MORE emotionally invested than he was. He just shuts down. I've seen it time and time again and he even did it with me when I was sick. The minute he thought something was going to happen to me, he just shut me off. Yes, he was with me physically, but emotionally, nothing. I got nothing. But I told him ANY contact, regardless he MUST tell me.

So yesterday, she called the restaurant (technically, he wouldn't have been there, and she probably expected to talk to another manager, but even still) to ask if they could be a reference. He answered and he said ok, and then that was it. He did immediately call me afterwards since our big discussion about it was tuesday night. And I did tell him I appreciated that. But, I also realize that even though he did the NC text, clearly, it wasn't clear enough.

The past two nights have been long discussions of details, because I told him expressely about my need to know. I also went over the chapter with him in surviving about the "I don't remember lie". I also told him, that I know he wants to focus on the future, but in order to do that, *I* need to heal from this first. We can NOT pretend that it never happened. We can NOT gloss over it because it WILL come back to haunt us. He would love to avoid/evade it. He sometimes changes the subject, but I will press and tell him, we NEED to discuss this. And he will. But I can tell he does nto want to, that it makes him uncomfortable. But I told him that this is the hard part, and this is where you have to work.

I'm sorry that this is so long, and scattered. I'll answer any and all questions.

Lemmix, this is way, way too long to read and it would be helpful if you could cut it back to about to 3-4 paragraphs. People need to be able to GET your situation in as few words as possible. It is not necessary to give this much information. Cut out all unnecessary information about his childhood and "self esteem" (of course he has a low self esteem, a man who lies and cheats has little to esteem).

If you can do that, you will get a lot of help here. I know you are under duress, so please cut this way back so you can get the most help.

I will make one comment on what I could read and that is about exposure to the OWs husband. That has to be done. First off, her H has a right to know what your H has done to him. Telling the OWH help kill the affair because if you don't, then the OW is free to contact your husband. And he free to contact her.

As far as sexual harassment lawsuits, your H is a walking legal liability and such a suit would serve him well. He has left his company at great legal risk with his grossly unprofessional behavior. The employer should be informed of the affair so they can protect themselves from this loose cannon. You do your husband NO FAVORS by enabling him to hide his unprofessional behavior on the job. He is an unfit manager who has abused his authority.

P.s.. Your husband will not recover from this as long as you help hide his crimes from his victims, the OWH and his employer. He has to make amends to those people and face the consequences in order to change and grow as a person.

Lemmix,

Welcome! It's great that you have RidicSit helping you out, she is a wondeful poster.

I need to read your post a little more thoroughly but a few things:

~ You MUST expose to OWH. This WILL come back to bite you in the azz. We have seen it here again and again. With the addictive nature of affairs, you basically have to assume contact will go underground and ALL protections must be in place ~ one of the most important ones being that the affairees are being watched on BOTH ends.

Not to mention, you should NEVER shield a wayward from the consequences of the affair which is what you are doing.

Will be back with more, need to scan through your post again.

No withdrawal?


Not remembering details?


Telling you they had contact but he kept it professional?


He would love to avoid all A talk?


I don't believe contact has ended and I ABSOLUTELY don't believe you have the full truth of their affair, lemmix.

I would stop trying to browbeat your H into telling you what you want to know, schedule a poly(there is info on this under Operation Investigation) and also again, make sure you expose to the OWH ASAP. It helps to affair proof your M, not to mention it is the RIGHT thing to do.

He is not in withdrawal because contact has never ended. He was in contact as recently as yesterday. And being "honest" about it (which he wasn't) misses the point. Every contact puts him and you back to day 1.

Nor does calling it "professional" contact change anything. It is just like an alcoholic changing the name of his drinks to business drinks and expecting to sober up.

I also don't believe he didnt sleep with her and doesn't remember certain details. But you should give him a chance to prove that by scheduling a polygraph and handing him a list of questions 2 days before. Give him one last chance to come clean before the polygraph. Polygraphs are a very effective way to get the truth out.

Dr Harley says that delving into childhood issues is a distraction.

I suffered PTSD as a child and as a result, I have a true phobia (not like I scream when I see a spider but something that I have been told I will need therapy & systematic desensitization in order to overcome). I also don't have great self-esteem. I have never even come close to having an affair.

My H had trauma in his childhood and low self-esteem and has had several affairs.

So what is the difference between him and me?

Boundaries, plain and simple.

Your H likely thought it was OK to chat, be friendly, joke and talk about personal matters with coworkers (or at least this one) and that's why he ended up having an affair. (Please read Dr Harley's opposite sex friends article)

We are all wired for affairs and must take extraordinary precautions to prevent them from happening. Focusing on that & rebuilding your romantic relationship using MB is where you two need to focus your attention...

Lemmix and I disagree on exposure. I have been pushing her to expose to the other husband, and I am glad she has posted here- so she will get more understanding of why I am so invested in that.

She has been through the wringer- emotionally and physically, long before this started, and I have been really proud of how much she has done, and how quickly she jumped on this.

I know with you all to help her- she will flourish.

The way to handle any other discovered contact is not to have a discussion about it. It is to change the conditions that allowed the contact to happen.

For example, one of the conditions that need to be changed is OWH needs to be informed. If he was watching on her end, it is much less likely that she would still be making contact.

If OWH is exposed to and she still breaks NC, the next thing would be to send her a letter stating that any further contact will be met with a restraining order. Or your WH would need to leave the restaurant, etc.

It's the conditions that need to be looked at, not trying to education your H into doing the right thing. He is wayward and he's not going to do that for you, lemmix, I am sorry to say...

I should say his childhood trauma and my health issues were his @reasons" not mine. I realize for myself there are zero excuses. And yes, him wasting to focus on those issues are a distraction. Absolutely.

i definitely understand that him avoiding discussions about the affair, claiming not to remember, and no withdrawal with continued "professional" contact are all huge huge red flags. I emphatically understand that and have discussed it at length with ridic and why I'm now posting here.

I know what I need to do, I just need the shove. I'm scared.

I don't know where OWH works so I have to send him a letter to their shared home. Is it possible to have it so only he can sign for it so she can not intercept it?

Do I still send the NC letter to her? Or wait until after I send the exposure letter to him?

This all has to be translated into Spanish of course. I know nothing about them except their address and her cell number and maybe a home number. No relatives in country as far as I know except young children.

I assume I don't tell him that I'm exposing so he does not warn her.

As for the necklace she gave him, it was very very cheap and fake. I doubt it cost 10 bucks if that. It was a cross, I believe she's catholic and there was some sort of significance.

lemmix, if you send him a letter, the OW will very likely intercept it. Are they Mexicans?

They are from El Salvador.

Do you think he speaks English? If not, do you have any friends who can speak Spanish? That is where I would begin. Figure out when the OWH is home and ask one of your friends to call and tell him about the affair. Another solution is to ask that friend to go to their house with you.

I have no idea if he speaks English, nor do I have friends locally that are fluent in Spanish. I have an online friend that I can ask if she would be willing to call, but ill have to find out how to figure out how to see when he's home and she isn't. They live about an hour from me. I do know she may have gotten another job at a panera where they live so I wonder if I could call and see hlif she's working? Then if she is call him then? But I don't know if they have a babysitter or not.

That's part of the difficulty I know very very little about this woman at all. But I will go into full investigative mode for this.

Should we still send the NC letter? He is on board with that. Or wait until after the exposure?

He has been moody on and off since that phone call yesterday so I'm wondering now if he is starting to finally feel some withdrawal.

I'm halfway through SAA and its so validating.

lemmix, yes you can have him send the no contact letter now and then work out how you will get ahold of the OWH.

It is real important that your H made radical changes in his lifestyle to prevent this from happening again. It WILL happen again unless he makes changes. He obviously has very inappropriate boundaries around women and is not a fit manager. I would be having that discussion with him. The fact that he uses his position of authority to facilitate affairs with female subordinates puts your marriage at risk. And since his employer doesn't know what he has done, he is free to do this again. And likely WILL.

I am not trying to be a wet blanket, lemmix, but unless this problem is addressed and resolved, you are facing more affairs in the future. Please read Dr Harley's suggestions about the importance of changing the environment:

here

No, no, you are not a wet blanket at all. that's why I came here. and you're spot on. when he goes to work and I'm not on my phone, ill go into further detail.

I've been reading for a few weeks, I know your advice is not about [censored] footing around Melody. if I wanted that, I wouldn't have posted.

I need the directness.

About 3/12 years ago, right after one of my big medical situations, my H had an unreciprocated EA with another employee at a different restaurant location when he was just an assistant manager.

At that time, he said things that gave me HUGE red flags and I stopped it in its tracks. Had him cut off contact (facebook) and he changed locations and got a promotion to GM. I thought cutting contact, him leaving that location would stop the situation. It did...just that one.

She didn't reciprocate, I do know that for sure. He did admit his attraction to her, and it started as friends talking about life. She just was wrapped up in her own world and did not reciprocate at that point. I don't know if she would have if I hadn't caught those red flags or not.

But she too was a "trainwreck" She ahd 5 kids, two baby daddies, the one she was with was an alcoholic.

It seems that he chooses women who can not expect anything from him or make demands of him, emotionally or physically. That way he can be as emotionally unavailable to them as he has been to me and my family. He has never chosen an unattached, single woman, because I think that would mean they would put too many demands on him. He can't give that.

At that time I didn't know about MB or I would have been able to go a lot further.

The problem is his choice of careers. Just changing restaurants is not the solution. He needs to change careers so he is not in a position of authority. Honestly, i think the best thing for your husband would be to expose his affair to the restaurant owners. This would force him to change his grossly unprofessional behavior one way or the other. They would either fire him or start watching him like a hawk to force him to behave. And while they are watching him to keep him in line, he could be looking for a new line of work.

This is the second time this has happened, lemmix. It will happen again unless there is a change of environment - and I don't mean just going to the SAME environment in another restaurant - I mean getting out of management completely. He should NEVER be a manager of women. That is dangerous to you, him, your marriage and his employer.

He has inappropriate boundaries around women and he will always be tempted in this kind of environment.

It will be very hard on you, lemmix, but I fear if you don't take tough steps NOW, you will be facing a much harsher future that will very likely end in divorce. Your marriage probably won't recover from another affair. But the payoff for taking tough steps NOW can be a GREAT FUTURE if it results in a big change on his part. That is your best shot, my friend. I would expose to his employer and to the OWH. WITHOUT WARNING, on the same day. That will be the greatest motivation for your husband to change and become the kind of husband he should be, IMO. He needs a major wake up call in his marriage and in his career.

I don't think that's it at all, lemmix. I think Mel is spot on, that you need to look closely at his profession.

My H has a lot in common with your H, he has had two workplace As in the last 3.5 years and in the first one, he was the pursuer and while the OW in that one WAS meeting ENs (conversation & admiration) she had no intention of leaving her fiance for my H.

Anyway, Dr Harley advises a career change for him ~ he explained that my H's professions is a problem due to the long hours and working in close proximity w/women and probably also (my interpretation) because it's so easy to get his admiration needs met.

Learning about MB and learning about EPs (not letting other women meet his needs by having NO personal conversation, no flirting, no joking around) did NOT stop my WH...

The fact that your H has given you a long list of excuses for his affair (such as his childhood & your medical issues) and hasn't even acknowledged it was due to poor boundaries is also like my H and a huge red flag that he does not want nor intend to change his behavior.

I am very familiar with the restaurant business and there is a lot of down time to talk, joke & play around. I can see how it is an environment ripe for affairs unless one has very strong boundaries.

Sorry to say, agreeing with Mel, I think unless there is a career change, your H is going to be at extremely HIGH risk for this to happen.