I have to agree with the viewpoint on persistence. Any sort of Plan B type action would only be a self-protective measure on my part. I'd be withdrawing in order to stop my own pain. And really, I'm the proximate cause of that as well. It would be punishing him for not engaging in recovery...and regardless of how much I want to recover our M, he has every right to refuse to do so.

I suppose there is a small chance he might would miss me if I wasn't trying to meet his needs when/where I have the chance, but there's also the chance he could see it as "Ha! See, I knew she didn't really love me. If she loved me she wouldn't give up." It's anyone's guess as to how he would see a cessation of need-meeting on my part.

But if anybody finds that time machine let me know...

Hey, WPG. Your latest dip in the rollercoaster is a tough one, and while I understand the danger of false hope and expectations, I will second the majority opinion here that it is but that: a dip in the rollercoaster, as opposed to a final exit from the ride.

I know it's dangerous territory to speculate on your H's thoughts/motives, and, at the end of the day, it's not entirely productive. But with the hope of reassuring you, I will give it a go:

A few times early on in our recovery, (actually, a number of times, and not all that early even), I fumbled the recovery ball -- e.g., instead of putting my foot down to defend my BH and the position in which I had put him, I "mm-hmm'd" and "sure, uh-huh'd" my family while they put down my BH's actions. Or when a guy introduced himself to me, and I actually did introduce myself back.

Those are both situations that said, loud and clear to my BH, "You are not the most important to me." That's the sense I got from your recounting of the latest exchange between you and your BH.

It didn't matter what my intentions were - what mattered was the message he got. As NG, I think, put it: I had to learn how to filter everything I said and did through my BH's eyes -- how would this affect him? What would he say if he were here? How do I reassure him with my behavior regardless of whether he's here or not?

I'm not trying to educate you, as you clearly get it. We all fumble. We all hit those lows. I think many may even have those "(s)he is really done" moments. (I had one just about a year ago, which actually proved to be a positive turning point for me and how I approached recovery.)

Keep on keepin' on. Oh, and I'll totally join you on that time machine thing, just FTR.

It would be punishing him for not engaging in recovery

...similar to this motivational poster:



Hang in there, WPG.

I suggested modified based on this article: When to call it quits


WPG - my thought was to prepare for the plan B - in this case took almost a year. It was modified because Ellen was still contacting her husband and fulfilling his needs.

It was my suggestion based on what Dr. Harley wrote concerning the husband. Granted WPG has a BS not just a man that wants unconditional love.

If it doesn't seem right or you can survive Plan A for sometime then by all means take that path. I struggle as the BS with expectations. It is something I am working on myself because it contributes to my DJs. I have to learn to go into situations with no expectations in return. That is hard because of the pain it causes.

Tough~

What Dr. Harley wrote concerning WPG in this very thread the last time posters, some long term vets, began the "Plan B" train was a "NO."

So, if it is enough for you to turn back on the whole Plan B advice, Dr. Harley himself advised against this in this very thread, to this very poster.

Putting a Plan B on a betrayed spouse is a slap in the face on top of the infidelity.

My intention is not to do a Plan B on her BS in the normal way; I suggested a modfied where her BS is still getting needs met. How does WPG situation concerning a woman in Plan A for long help the situation?

I agree WPG is unique in the sense of her being a WW. I only suggested the modified Plan B, not as punishment to the BS, but as a way for her to keep her emotions strong.

Dr. H has suggested the needs of the spouse still be met. That is why I felt it may be appropriate so she can keep herself healthy. The above example can be tailored to meet her particular situation.

It was not my intention to suggest it to harm her BS in anyway shape or form. As a woman who did a five month Plan A before I found MB -- my emotional state was so fragile by February I was back into lovebusters before I knew about Plan B.

If she can isolate herself from some of the damage caused to her by a lengthy Plan A was my thought.

I don't know what a "modified Plan B" is, as Plan B is "Never see or speak to your spouse."

It is, or it isn't.

Just my thinking, but with her BH having moved out, I would think what Plan A-type activity she has carried out should be carried out until a divorce is FINALIZED (not just filed), and I believe there has been times where it has bee suggested to continue up to 2 years past that.

The issue with Plan B popping up here is people becoming personally involved and emotionally invested with WPG herself, and not her plan for recovery.

Her plan for recovery is to Plan A his behind home, and get him on board for an MB led marriage.

If she were to get him home, get recovery rolling and MB adapted, and then her BH continued to refuse to meet her needs? At that time Plan B may be appropriate.

At this time, while he is withdrawn and hurting, even the words "Plan B" say; "You aren't worth the effort."

This, of course, is up to WPG - and I'm sure she has plenty of "Plan B-ish" breaks when her husband isn't having contact with her.

Until the divorce is final, and some time after. Plan A.

There is no room or place for a plan b here.

I'm glad doc H has agreed with me on this

Many a divorce has stopped just before it was finalized. Some have recovered post D.

This is the time to show her BH that the changes his WW are making are real. To do so she needs to continue even past the D if her BH is still not dating. As long as he's breathing and not starting any new relationship she has a chance.

I can picture any WW telling her BH well if you don't want to recover our marriage after I did the OM then I'm going to plan B you BH until you come to your senses.

Picture the WW saying this with her arm's folded in an I mean business take no prisoner posture. Puntuating her last sentence with a Hurump!!!!!!

I think the "When to call it Quits" article would have applied at some point over 2 years ago for us - before I had the A. At any point prior to that, had I found MB, and tried to get H on board and he refused, THEN a separation and Plan B would have possibly helped save our M.

H is hurting and he's scared. He still doesn't trust me, and all I can continue to do is try to show him the changes I am making are permanent.

He did come over this evening, I cooked dinner for us and had scooted the kids out for a bit so we had some time to ourselves. I kept things light and acted like nothing was wrong. He didn't bring up anything from the other day, and I didn't either. I'm not going to push.

There's a very real possibility he'd view Plan B as me giving up, and I reiterated to him Thurs. that I'd promised him I would not give up.

I still hurt sometimes over things he says, does or doesn't do, but those are the result of lingering expectations and my own tendency to keep beating myself up...but the difference is now the spells of depression don't last as long, I rebound a little faster and I'm able to keep more focus on just day-to-day life - work (the school I ran the last couple of weeks helped majorly with that, as well as having him around a little more), enjoying time with the girls, keeping up with the house, etc.

I've got another trip scheduled this week, which I'd rather not have to deal with but it is what it is. If we were both 100% engaged in R I'd much rather travel with him. But I get the opportunity to focus on work and just down time, I read a lot and watch movies, can go for a run and don't have to worry about the girls, etc. It gives him time to spend with the girls and all 3 of them need that.

Thursday was rough, I admit. I'm going to treat it like a dip in the roller coaster and keep on riding. I'm trying to look towards the future and be prepared for either being with him or without him. I believe I will be OK either way, although I would certainly prefer being with him, but he has to make that choice.

Don't stick a fork in me, I'm not done yet!

Good girl!

Yes HHH and The road are right.

Being a BH, and knowing how long it took for me to start beliving again that my talented and gifted but emotionally messed up WW and I might have a chance, ever so slim, but worth it because well. its allways worth it, even if for just the children, I believe he will be back if you stay consistent.

I know you want to heal him, and want it right now, but you are to smart to belive that it will happen overnight right? Don't panic, stay strong and consistent, and when you guys have the chance, grab onto MB with all your might.

yeah WPG you are not done yet, not by a long shot. He took a big shot to his self-image, if this didn't hurt him, you probably never would have fallen in love with him in the first place. Let him heal himself and fall in love with you again at his pace, with that freedom he has, and does not yet know he has, to rise above and forgive, when he is ready.

It doesn't come because we deserve it. Its a gift.

I am gonna go out on a limb here, and sound a little preachy maybe, but it is words of hope, and words of truth, and I will highlight the parts that move me, and also inspire me. I hope they will help.

1 Peter 3
1IN LIKE manner, you married women, be submissive to your own husbands [subordinate yourselves as being secondary to and dependent on them, and adapt yourselves to them], so that even if any do not obey the Word [of God], they may be won over not by discussion but by the [godly] lives of their wives,
2When they observe the pure and modest way in which you conduct yourselves, together with your [a] reverence [for your husband; you are to feel for him all that reverence includes: to respect, defer to, revere him--to honor, esteem, appreciate, prize, and, in the human sense, to adore him, that is, to admire, praise, be devoted to, deeply love, and enjoy your husband].

3Let not yours be the [merely] external adorning with [elaborate] [b] interweaving and knotting of the hair, the wearing of jewelry, or changes of clothes;

4But let it be the inward adorning and beauty of the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible and unfading charm of a gentle and peaceful spirit, which [is not anxious or wrought up, but] is very precious in the sight of God.

5For it was thus that the pious women of old who hoped in God were [accustomed] to beautify themselves and were submissive to their husbands [adapting themselves to them as themselves secondary and dependent upon them].

6It was thus that Sarah obeyed Abraham [following his guidance and acknowledging his headship over her by] calling him lord (master, leader, authority). And you are now her true daughters if you do right and let nothing terrify you [not giving way to hysterical fears or letting anxieties unnerve you].

7In the same way you married men should live considerately with [your wives], with an [c]intelligent recognition [of the marriage relation], honoring the woman as [physically] the weaker, but [realizing that you] are joint heirs of the grace (God's unmerited favor) of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered and cut off. [Otherwise you cannot pray effectively.]

8Finally, all [of you] should be of one and the same mind (united in spirit), sympathizing [with one another], loving [each other] as brethren [of one household], compassionate and courteous (tenderhearted and humble).

9Never return evil for evil or insult for insult (scolding, tongue-lashing, berating), but on the contrary blessing [praying for their welfare, happiness, and protection, and truly pitying and loving them]. For know that to this you have been called, that you may yourselves inherit a blessing [from God--that you may obtain a blessing as heirs, bringing welfare and happiness and protection].

10For let him who wants to enjoy life and see good days [good--whether apparent or not] keep his tongue free from evil and his lips from guile (treachery, deceit).

11Let him turn away from wickedness and shun it, and let him do right. Let him search for peace (harmony; undisturbedness from fears, agitating passions, and moral conflicts) and seek it eagerly. [Do not merely desire peaceful relations with God, with your fellowmen, and with yourself, but pursue, go after them!]

12For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God), and His ears are attentive to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who practice evil [to oppose them, to frustrate, and defeat them].
13Now who is there to hurt you if you are [d]zealous followers of that which is good?

14But even in case you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, [you are] blessed (happy, to be envied). Do not dread or be afraid of their threats, nor be disturbed [by their opposition].

15But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully.
16[And see to it that] your conscience is entirely clear ([e]unimpaired), so that, when you are falsely accused as evildoers, those who threaten you abusively and revile your right behavior in Christ may come to be ashamed [of slandering your good lives].

17For [it is] better to suffer [unjustly] for doing right, if that should be God's will, than to suffer [justly] for doing wrong.

18For Christ [the Messiah Himself] died for sins once [f]for all, the Righteous for the unrighteous (the Just for the unjust, the Innocent for the guilty), that He might bring us to God. In His human body He was put to death, but He was made alive in the spirit,

19In which He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

20[The souls of those] who long before in the days of Noah had been disobedient, when God's patience waited during the building of the ark in which a few [people], actually eight in number, were saved through water.
21And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

22[And He] has now entered into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with [all] angels and authorities and powers made subservient to Him.

Your Husbands heart is hurt, and it will take time for it to heal, but do not be afraid, you are doing what is right now after your fall. Once he is certain that you are his again, and that you are completly transparent in everything, I am sure he will work with you in protecting your marriage.

Yes I am being protective of you, but only in the stead of your Husband as he is my brother in Christ, and he has been wounded temporarily in this battle, and I know how blinding the pain is. As a man who loved his wife more than life itself, and would take her place if God would have allowed it, the worse pain is the helplessness you feel. It is fear of the unknown that parylyses us, all you can do is make it known that you will never be part of crushing him again, as his fear subsides and his bitterness can be replaced with trust again, and that takes time.

Hang in there you warrior WPG, this does not define you, it is only part of the lessons in life, which you are learning, and taking your beating for. This too shall pass.

H is hurting and he's scared. He still doesn't trust me, and all I can continue to do is try to show him the changes I am making are permanent. I kept things light and acted like nothing was wrong. He didn't bring up anything from the other day, and I didn't either. I'm not going to push.

He needs to feel it's real, just seeing is not believeing, your actions can be an act, your tricking him again.

There's a very real possibility he'd view Plan B as me giving up, and I reiterated to him Thurs. that I'd promised him I would not give up.

the difference is now the spells of depression don't last as long, I rebound a little faster

Thursday was rough, I admit. I'm going to treat it like a dip in the roller coaster and keep on riding. I'm trying to look towards the future and be prepared for either being with him or without him. I believe I will be OK either way, although I would certainly prefer being with him, but he has to make that choice.

Eventually BH will feel this inner strength you are building. It should become contagious to him.

Don't stick a fork in me, I'm not done yet!

Keep fighting.

WPG:



Thank you for your pitch-perfect note this evening to HFD on his thread!

Thank you, CP & TR, for the words of hope. CP, not preachy at all! I always appreciate your words, and the time and care that goes into each of your posts.

NG, I see a lot of hope for HFD and his W. I think somehow the timing of events in my life sort of influenced my thoughts - it stuck with me that my H told me last week, when our 'coaster derailed (temporarily???), he told me, "You're not worth it." It sucks, as I said to HFD, that he's the one wounded by her betrayal, yet she is looking to him to confirm her worthiness. Because that's exactly what I've found myself doing. And having to instead look to my own self to determine my worth, which is not always easy, and HFD's W is not there yet either. He can help her to get there, I think, as they help heal each other.

I am so glad to be home again and hopefully done with the overnight trips for a while. Coming home today, I knew he'd be here, since he was going to pick the kids up at school today. And my heart was glad.

My MIL called me today. I felt so bad, I missed her b-day and her anniversary and had been meaning to call her, but I've been either so busy with work, or when I've been here, H has been here too, and things between her and H are strained right now and I was afraid he'd get angry with me if I called her.

She's hurt and confused by his behavior with her, but I had no explanations or assistance to offer. I'm in the dark as to what is going on with him as well. Since the whole deal last week, he's acted as if nothing has changed. I guess really, so have I.

But it has worn on me, particularly the comment that I mentioned above ("You're not worth it"), as the issue of "worthiness" resonated with me when I read HFD's updates.

One of the speakers at the conference I went to gave a presentation on what he's learned about leadership. It was from a work perspective, but when he mentioned one of his "rules" - the 24 hour rule (when possible, wait 24 hours before making a major decision) - he said had probably saved his M. He said when you say things in the "heat of the moment" you so often regret them, and your loved ones never forget them.

It's true no matter which side of the awful infidelity equation you are on.

Anyway, it's advice applicable to any couple who is actively engaged in recovery, perhaps, to be aware of how those AOs and DJs sting. I suppose for us, being we're not in R, and perhaps never will be, that it doesn't really matter what he says to me, but it still hurts.

Even my MIL today told me to just stop trying, I was wearing myself out and that he was just too angry for anything I did to do any good.

I need to shift my focus for a while and take some kind of break, step back a little or something, because right now I am drained. Certainly not a Plan B, don't anybody worry!

I heard a saying that went.."years to build something and 5 mins can destroy it" It had to do with many things, but I related it to descisions that were bad, anger, adultry, drugs or violence,(allways considered them the same thing).

Don't forget to spend time building yourself up, strengthing yourself, because you are still going through the humanizing pain of realization of your own guilt. You will need that strength, to calm yourself, and help you in the future, no matter what you guys do.

This stuff takes time, and I dont know if I told you this, but when I left WW for her drinking and carousing I was so done...When I would make my cruel and using booty calls,(I say that because a lot of that was getting even, and cruel because I was giving false hope, but didnt care), there was still some love inside me, that didn't come out for quite a while after. We did not have MB like you guys have, but if we did we would have done much better in the big picture, because the model here is just as we had both believed in at one time, at the pinnicle of the relationship.

But right now he probably doesn't even trust that he knew what love was, and is really messed up in the head, so the coldness and ambivelance towards you. Hang in there WPG, you are not your sin, and he will get sick of himself at some point, and want to love again. Whom else but the one he married before God? If he ever loved you he still does, but he does not trust it anymore. All you can do is show him he can trust you, and not be afraid, you will never fall like that again, you also love yourself to much.

It took me two years to admit there was some small chance, and two more years after that to be really invested again. I am not the type to be rash, and it took a lot to leave the first time, but the fall into drinking again after 5 years into recovery, well it lead me down the path of "marrige at any cost", and it cost me a lot of myself, and I was just by then so invested, with adolecent children, that it was do or die, and I had no place to even imagine I could go. Such is false recovery, not based on real help like Dr H has laid out, and emotions alone.

In this case, the scripture is very appropiate, "Lean not unto your own understanding"..Trust in God and his plan, and the plan here also. Don't be harder on yourself than is nessesary to do what is right, and your emotions don't think, so never lean on them, they understand nothing.

Praying for you WPG

Don't listen to people who tell you to stop trying, that is something that only you can decide.

As you and I both know, it is extremely difficult to try and engage the other spouse who is withdrawn. Of course, the BS has every right to set the pace of recovery or even want to go down that path. Remember to take care of yourself, do nice things for yourself and enjoy life the best you can in this situation.

Don't take word so personally. Things can be said that we do not mean. As well, look to his actions which are more important. Just like he will look to your actions not your words as well.

Even though I am now at a different point than you, I still see hope and I am rooting for you always.

Yes WPG, just like GloveOil has remarked, you have so much going for you.

I am sure I/we are not the first to tell you that in the world, and how know that can work on our egos, because it has on me in the past also.

Like gloveoil says we can call ourselves blessed, when we teeter on the edge or a bad decsision but don't take that road. Blessed we were scared, afraid, or previously hurt by the same thing in the past. To put on holier than thou robes when we don't deserve them is, well, just fooling ourselves.

Remember the story in the bible, about the famous Pharasy, who called Jesus to his house at night, because he wanted to hear the words from this man, because he sensed the power in them? He wouldn't be seen by the public, talking to Christ, because the popular concencus was, that he was a heretic, and it might hurt his reputation. So he called him at night to his home.

Then also a woman, Mary M I think,(There were a lot of Marys for variuos reasons and called Mary because the name means something special), but she was a Mary, who was brought in also, and she sat at Jesus feet, washing them and kissing him, and accually doing all the proper things that are done to someone who is honored and brought into a Jewish home.

The story comes from Luke,(The physician I believe?), and I prefaced it with a little intro because of what is precious to me, as compared to mans understanding,(limited of course), of the forgivness of God of people, because we really don't have that power. We try to, with all our actions, to have it and produce it even by rituals and behavior, but even in our trying to be good, we are weak in our fears, because really we are all scared to screw up. Jesus gives a lesson on forgiveness here that is very clear, that people do not forgive unconditionally, and for the most part, surround themselves with traditions, that make them secure. Thats just how people are, our flesh and emotions are limited, and we can only go by our senses for our judgements. What we see is what we believe.

Now we can understand when someone is scared, that they resort to fight or flight, and this reaction has happened to your BH. We lose our objectivity, and lets say our ability to see things from Gods eyes, and even our faith for a time, because we are human after all. We are still taking inventory on ourselves. "If God loves me then He will.....", but the problem is with the "if", when we are talking about God. In the old Hebrew something either has allready happened, or is now in existance. There was no waiting and hoping or co-incedance, it either was done allready by God or not. Everything comes from God, trials and tribulations, and all things are spoken into exsistance and when they are said, they just are. Don't waste your time wondering or measuring, they are allready here.

Much of the problem is our personal perspective, because we are allready blessed. We just keep going back to that tree of knowledge, becoming self aware, and doing our own comparison studies. Then our seed thoughts are contemplated, and brought into reality when they are acted upon. Its totally human, and if we are blessed, God takes us to the woodshed. We ussually thank Him later.

Its interesting that the new testement was written in greek, a language that had many words for love, and definitions also. It was written in an emotional launguage, and for me, furthur shows that God wants to reach us, and guide us, and comfort us, showing us that even though the law is good, we are weak and not able to keep it without Him. Its just another way He has reached out to us, His mercy is endless.

So here is the scripture from Luke, and it shows the traditions and policys of the day, and how this totally repentant woman, was offending the holy people of the time because she threw herself on Gods mercy, publicly not caring how she looked, or what the cost.

Luke 7 36-50

36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee�s house, and sat down to eat.

37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee�s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil,

38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil.

39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, �This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.�

40 And Jesus answered and said to him, �Simon, I have something to say to you.�
So he said, �Teacher, say it.�

41 �There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.

42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?�

43 Simon answered and said, �I suppose the one whom he forgave more.�
And He said to him, �You have rightly judged.�

44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, �Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head.

45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.

46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.

47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.�

48 Then He said to her, �Your sins are forgiven.�

49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, �Who is this who even forgives sins?�

50 Then He said to the woman, �Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.�

I hope this encourages you, that even though in comparison and common sense human reality with the weaknesses us humans don't want to admit we have, and sometimes step out of reality to try and prove we are not limited and weak creatures, that coming to and facing our humanity and weakness, is truly the only way to help ourselves. Because I for one see that in you allready happening, I have hope for your reconciliation in time, because of how you have described your Husbands heart, when you were closer in the past.

You are broken and in front of the truth, and sharing your mistakes, and pointing out the stumbling blocks to others also, with great depth and clarity. Not making excuses, and willing to take your lumps, in a effort for reconciliation.

If you recover this marraige, it will be a totally new one, built from what has remained in the ashes that could not be destroyed, because it was Gods to begin with. I have lived my life knowing that people make mistakes, poor judgements, and that forgivness of self is nessesary, to learn anything of real value. A bitter and pretty messed up aquantance of mine one time asked me, being pretty upset with me.."Why do you give people so many breaks!?".. I said.."Because I need the same breaks, in order to move past anything, and change with a clear conscience" My problem was not seeing that some people just need the truth revealed, and to stand for it, without to much explanation, consequences will do there job, and that was Gods business anyway.

So allthough we can be support, and can see how repentant you are, in the end it is up to your husband to be able to forgive, and that process will take a while. It will take courage, and determination, and conviction, that it is the right thing to do, and really none of our business either, because truthfully, in the big picture, it isn't.

But that is what you want anyways right? That he takes up his mantle and place of authority, and sees who you are now, and protects you? Then I hope we find we are in the back seat, where we belong, and have helped heal, instead of destroy, what God has put together.

Best wishes on your sabbatical WPG

Thanks, all. I have to admit that I feel very selfish posting about my sitch. At least here, in this community, I get the validation I need that I'm doing the right thing, fighting for him. Not that I don't feel that in my heart, but I simply can't talk about my sitch anymore IRL. The email that got him so upset is proof of that - it's not that I can't "vent" because of what his response might be, but b/c IRL I simply don't get the support I am seeking for marital recovery, if that makes sense. I love my girlfriends, but I just don't want to talk about the sitch anymore to them. It's ironic that the little email exchange got him so upset, b/c I consciously try not to engage with them in "venting." Whether about my own M, or theirs. I've tried to offer MB-based advice and guide them to resources to help make their M's better.

So many people IRL see my M as something I shouldn't bother to fight for anymore. Even my mother tells me the same thing my MIL did, and makes DJs about my H and gets frustrated with me when I don't agree. No one IRL sees any hope anymore, and so when I feel hopeless I come here. And I read something like CP's last post, that literally moved me to tears, b/c it gives me a glimpse of hope and a prayer for the future.

GO, I think I can totally understand the "survivor's guilt," b/c I freely admit that I can and do feel bitter when I read the stories of BH's that fight for their WW's at all costs, trying to restore their M's despite all the indignities they have suffered at the hands of their WW's, and I can so clearly see the love they have for their W's and how enduring it is. Same as when I read the stories of FWS's who somehow, against all odds, have restored their M's. And I know every sitch is unique, and logically, rationally, I can't compare ours to anyone else's, but yeah, I can at times feel this little worm of bitterness, but more often than not it cycles into self-blame, b/c had I just been a better W, had I been an honorable woman, none of this would have ever happened. It makes me feel "less than," not good enough for a restored M, "not worth it." AFter all, it is not my H's fault, it is mine, and all he's doing is what I gave him the right to do.

So if I can help someone to avoid my mistakes, then at least it all wasn't for nothing. The sad thing is that so little makes it through the fog that all people like Violette can see is that "Well! Look here is someone who told the truth, and she lost everything, so telling the truth is bad!" I set my H free, free from M with a woman who, when she was WW, truly wasn't worth it.

It remains up to him if he can see anything in me, either pre-A, or in the woman I am learning to be, that is worth it. If not, then all I want for him is happiness, because he is a good man, who has been hurt many times, and not just by me. And as hard as it is for me to accept it, maybe I am not who he needs to bring him happiness. I would never want him to spend his life alone and bitter, to never be able to love and be loved in return. He deserves someone who is worthy of him.

The "break" that I need comes on the heels of the knowledge that I can't continue to live my life thinking I am worthless. If it was just me, that would be easy to do. But I have daughters, who are looking at me, learning and growing. And the loss of their father is tearing them up, and the times I allow myself to selfishly sink too far in my own depression and guilt, I am blind to what they need from me as a mother. They are so smart, so clever (yes, I know, every parent thinks that about their children!) and they see so much, much more than we give them credit for. DD#1 is so like her father, personality-wise, that it's jarring - she is closed and guarded with her emotions, and she picks up on things like he always did, and when I am down she tries her hardest to make me smile. I remember how he used to do that, how hard it was for me to stay angry at him for long, because he'd do something to make me laugh. I miss that...maybe that is part of him being my protector, as CP said, that he could even protect me from myself.

ANyway, all that to say that it's now going on 8 months of separation, and in a little more than 4 months he can file for D if he wants. I can't allow myself to feel bitter anymore, I can't allow myself to believe that I'm worthless. There has to be a shift in focus that comes from continuing to release expectations, searching for worth in myself apart from being his W, being grateful for the little things in life, and believing not only in myself but in something greater than all of us, which I have tended to lose sight of often in all of this. I need some peace, some comfort, and yes, some confidence, and I can't look to my H, or my role as his W, as the source of that anymore.