I wouldn't bother with this because he cannot possibly know that.

I agree, Mel, that some of the finite details are probably still things I don't need to know to get the full picture. Some of the others you mentioned - are ones that I believe need answering. I'm glad you agree with me on the "feelings" questions because I really was not wanting to go there but would if it was a necessary evil. I just think to have him think back to that mental state, like I mentioned, possibly would just make it seem romantic still. Why make him think of her and that time period fondly?! And, like you said, it's speculation and a fantasy world anyway.

Glove Oil alluded to the same thing: OF COURSE OW made him feel good about himself and he did the same for her. How could they not being that they had no real world problems to deal with and only focused on each other to the detriment of everyone else?

GO, thanks for the insight. I don't expect it to be pleasant but I do think festering is a bad, bad thing.

Mel, as for asking him tonight... I had class all evening. I just got home and am dead tired. I don't think I'm ready for an emotionally spent evening, because I'm sure it will bring some of that. Plus, I want to prepare. I want to make sure that I get it ALL out - and that I don't hold back and have to have the same kind of conversation again later. Of course, some of these things just popped into my head recently. Perhaps something else could pop up months from now, who knows. I reserve the right to still ask if I need to! LOL. Right???

Trust me, I have not made the affair the focus of any part of our relationship or recovery in terms of bringing it up or constantly nitpicking about it. I try hard to find the balance between my "rights" as the faithful spouse and hurting our recovery by taking advantage of those rights inappropriately.

GO has brought up some good questions in terms of focus on the conversation.

I'll be frank - I dread it. I don't want to have the conversation, but it sounds more and more like it's needed - perhaps not every tiny detail, but in some of the things that keep popping up. Hard to believe I never even wondered before if she spent the night or not! Want to know when that popped in my head? Right in the middle of SF....Great, huh?!

Dr. Harley's advice is to gather all the details you need in one session if possible, then never ever discuss the details of the affair again. Jennifer Harley Chalmers' advice to me personally was to never discuss it with my wife again, and if I had questions to ask her (Jennifer) and not my wife.

I can certainly see that point, Door, thanks for sharing!

I guess my issue is that perhaps I should've gotten more out at the beginning of recovery. I have not been one to harp on it at all. In fact, there's been no conversing about it since H moved back home. I won't even say the OW's name, in fact!

I think the concept is, you hinder recovery if your focus is on the past and you are just LBing all over the place if you bring it up all the time - for both spouses. However, if you can't get full closure without further information, then perhaps another conversation is in order.

Did Jennifer explain to you why to never discuss again in particular? Also, did you have further questions that you addressed to her rather than your wife? Did it do any good?

Sucks, right?

Happens to me all the time. Though, not questions - just straight up mind-movies. Or glimpses.

Take a breath, and do what you can to just be present in the very moment you are in, there in the room with your H.

TMI warning;


Why not bring it up? Because recall grants strength and longevity to memories. The physiological reaction (stress) to painful memories encodes them rather hard. By distancing yourself from those memories, and building new, better memories, you can reduce the impact of random recall and triggers.

It DOES suck, HHH! I guess you're right though...you have to turn it around when the mind movies happen! lol

I certainly see what you're saying with the encoding bit. I know all of that plays a part. That's why I was having a hard time deciding whether or not I needed another conversation for closure purposes or if I was just triggering. Where I'm seeing the difference is that I'm not wanting to rehash old stuff, I'm seeking information I never had. That could be the difference.

Sorry slow responding; I find that I need to keep my doses of this forum short and infrequent or I tend to get a bit negative.

My problem was "why" questions. Jennifer seized on that and explained that she could answer "why" types of questions more easily than my wife. Love Bank balances and non-exclusive Needs Meeting explains the vast majority of "why".

I threw a bunch of questions at her, and most of them were answered within that framework. Thinking through the concepts of the Three States of Marriage, Love Bank Balances, and Exclusive Needs-Meeting helped me realize that by far the vast majority of my questions about FWW's behavior were answered by thinking through what her state of mind would have been when she made those decisions.

Dr. Harley's advice is pretty explicit, though: get the answers that you need, and then never bring the affair up again.

At times like these, it's useful to have a friend -- or a forum -- to vet your questions. Often they will be answered by asking "why do you need to know?" Understanding what it is you're trying to accomplish by asking the question, and often the answer will present itself.

Acceptance comes slowly. Part of that acceptance is knowing that your spouse did terrible things that they will never do again... and sometimes, being content to know that you don't need every detail.

I completely understand about keeping your thoughts on the positive side!

I don't really have the nagging question of "why" like most former BS's. All along I've known (at least logically) why. I did wonder HOW at times: how he could do it, knowing it was so wrong, but why was easier for me to answer.

The details thing, well, I'm still struggling. Harley says it's important to get all your questions answered. Others here have alluded to needing some details to get closure. WHy do I need to know? Well...I guess it's the same reason as why we (FBSs) need to know any of the details at all. It's not enough to say..."OH...he had an affair.... that's all I need to know as long as he doesn't do it again!"

Now, do I have sufficient details for final closure and just need to move past my questions of the moment? Well, that's why I asked in the first place.

Quite frankly, with the way our week has gone around here I haven't even thought about bringind it up: too busy and too much else on our plates. Maybe that's a good thing - for now.

Just a quick update and request for advice on how to handle an upcoming situation.

Things have been crazy busy at my house the past few weeks. Kids' activities, H's work, my school.... just beyond the usual amount of things. With homecoming out of the way and a few projects, I'm hoping things slow down a bit. H and I have gotten in time together, but not as much as we should. I always feel a bit off when our UA time is not up to par! That needs to be remedied right away! Things have been good still, but just don't feel as connected as when our focus is on each other more.

As for advice: We have an event we are attending tomorrow night (Fri) with S15. It's nothing big - just an annual outing with his Jr. ROTC group. It's a big trigger for me though. Why? Well, last year when we attended this event it was awful! S15 was with his friends most of the night and H and I were together. Well, physically we were together but we couldn't have been more apart. He was a jerk a good part of the night to me. It was all mostly passive-agressive stuff, but it hurt - badly. It was like being with a block of ice all night. He treated me like he barely knew me in ways.

Now, I know it will be different this year - that's the good news! The bad news is, I have some anger in me - and resentment -about last year. I don't know if I should tell him this or leave it alone and just work at making it a fun night.

This whole next month is going to be like this for me, and I need to cope well with it. This is "the month"....all the anti-versaries, etc... leading up to the discovery, his leaving, etc...

I'm not anticipating this next month to be easy and I need to be strong! I'm even wondering if I should've gone back on ADs, if just temporarily.

I hear the year anniversary of recovery can be tough. I'm sure it's because of all the bad memories and everything that goes along with it... Any stories on how you guys got through it???

SD, I would tell him what you told us here and get his help in getting through this month. He can help you make new memories by being especially thoughtful and kind to you. And whatever you do, DON'T make the mistake I did in my first year and bring up the affair every time you are triggered. That was a disaster! When you think about it, don't talk about it, in other words.

After the 1 year mark I thought about it less and less until I no longer thought about it at all. So I would say you are in the home stretch! Hang in there, you have done SO WELL!!

Mel,

Thanks for your response here...all of your insight in answering these posts are helping me, and others, immensely.

(Interesting, b/c I can't wait to get through this time of the year, @ 1 year since d-day...my W can't wait to get through to March -- 1 year since exposure of the A...)


We probably don't say it enough to you, but thanks for caring enough to take time out of your busy life to help others recover their marriages and keep their families intact.

Thank you.

Agreed, wholeheartedly, Help! Mel helps so many people, in so many ways.

You bring up a good point that I hadn't thought of: I am looking at all of this through my own eyes and my H may have a point of reference he can't wait to get through as well. I tend to look at these things through my perspective alone since I was the one betrayed. Yet, I need to remember H has residual fallout as well. We need to help each other and not me just looking at my own stuff.

Mel, that's good advice. I have not said very much at all to him about the affair through all of this. I've been pretty darn good about that. Yet, in staying disciplined in that way I also sometimes forget to ask for what I need from him. It's a balancing act, isn't it? You have to stay away from LBs but ask for what you need so make sure ENs are getting met. Sometimes those things are intertwined and you have to separate them. Not always an easy task!

Thanks for your kind words, hfd and SD!

Had a long conversation with H yesterday about memories, triggers, and upcoming anti-versaries. I explained all I did here - that I would need him to be understanding, supportive, and patient this next month. He said what he usually says - that he doesn't expect me to just get over it; he will do whatever he can to make sure I know I'm the only one he loves, and he is 100% committed to recovery.

It was a good conversation. H brought up some other things as well - things that weren't necessarily what I had bargained for, but I'm glad he talked about them. He mentioned HIS triggers - in the sense of why he was tempted to stray in the first place. While I know some of these things were blown out of proportion to justify the affair, I readily admit areas where I made mistakes. I still take responsibility for those. We have to make sure we are continuing in our changes - including my personal ones. I've been a bit self-centered in thinking about only my feelings lately. Perhaps rightly so in the sense that I have the bigger stuff - and the bigger triggers - to get over. Yet, I have to make sure I am meeting his needs and being the best wife I can be!

I told H that he needs to remember to ask for what he needs. I reiterated that I WANT him to be happy - I want to do things for him. Neither one of us are the greatest in this area it appears. Neither of us likes to ask for anything!

It was strange in that it was an almost business-like conversation - not very emotional. That was OK though. We both felt very positively about how it went.

One thing of note... H mentioned how when he made the decision to reconcile, a big mind shift had occurred because it was what HE was choosing...not that he was being led around in a life that he had no control over. This just reiterates to me how a wayward is operating totally in the point of view of feeling trapped. Everything they do while feeling trapped is to get away from their spouses. This is why no method of reasoning, begging, pleading, or trying to make them fall in line works. They just feel you're trying to trap them further. That's our instincts though - to want to hold on tightly when someone's pulling away.

Hey, Sunny:

We, too, have been discussing triggers, etc.

I've also said that I will need EXTRA help during the ANTIversaries, including this weekend (it started last year this weekend), and other dates leading up to DDay.

One of the things I really want him to do is to get on this website and offer someone else some help. I love reading GloveOil's posts. He's a FWH, and MB expert, and I know I would feel such a sense of pride if my FWH were to be so sure of his thoughts, words, deeds, that he would offer to help someone else.

He recently said he would consider it, after doign more reading of the forum (we only did the book/worksheets).

But keep up the good work! Sounds like you guys are building a great foundation to beat just about anything!

Thanks, SweetPea, for your support!

The triggers are hard at times. I hold onto what everyone says - that after the anti-versaries it gets easier because you've dealt with it. I told my husband that while things are so much better - it really does take 2 years to really be healed - and that's if you do all your work!

I like Glove Oil's posts as well and love hearing from former waywards who have made amends. I've wondered if my husband would ever come post here, but likely not. He's not much of a forum person or one to discuss these things. It's hard enough to get him to discuss them with me. I have not pushed it, but perhaps I'll talk to him about it.

I hope this weekend has gone OK for you!!!!

Thanks Sunny!

This weekend went really well, all things considering. Not sure if you've peeked at my post: DDay anniversary on my mind," but we had a note from my sister-in-law (who has been destroyed by her husband's 30 years of cheating; my husband and hers are brothers).

If you want the details, take a peek. But ultimately, I found myself responding to her note with the reasons why I think my husband CAN change, HAS changed and WILL remain faithful. Heck, how I've changed (not always for the best, but hey, better than where I was on DDay, that's for sure).

I really hope my FWH has done enough soul-searching AND MB's techniques to not let his genetics/family upbringing interfere with his free will to choose to be faithful.

Glad to hear you like GLOVEOIL's posts. Yeah, my FWH isn't a joiner or much of a talker either. I was actually chided by my IC once for bemoaning the fact that my FWH took a few hours to digest something we were talking about, and then address is (fully!). I wanted to talk RIGHT THEN. That's who I am. My counselor was like: Um, most men hardly ever talk about their feelings. Your husband is talking to you and talking to a therapist. And, he's thinking -- really hard -- about these things. Let the man process those thoughts, and get used to a new pattern of talking about deeply, intimate feelings.

Was quite an eye-opener for me. LOL! That MY compulsion to get everything out on the table as quickly as possible isn't the best approach for my FWH.

I try to think about that a lot more these days! And maybe that will help you in thinking about your FWH, too?

Have a great day, Sunny!

Thanks, SweetPea! I am definitely going to have to read over your sitch... we sound a lot alike in the processing dept!
LOL

You bring up some very good points! It sounds like both you and your H have come a long way. He doesn't have to be like his brother!

Thanks, Sunny!

Yeah, I know he is SIMILAR TO his brother, but not an exact copy.

It's like I want to say to SIL: Hey, you have five kids that share your genetics and the environment you raised them in, but they ARE ALL DIFFERENT. Even when some of them make the same mistakes, they don't always make them exactly the same way, nor are the consequences the same either.

I do have great empathy for her. She is seeing every single moment in her life with her WH, my FWH and our in-laws as if they all are pure evil and manipulated at every turn. Her WH had so many affairs, attempted affairs, emotional affairs, etc., gaslighted her at every step, trickle-truthed to death, that I would have trouble getting out of downward spiral, too.

And, of course, my FWH is extremely concerned that her demonizing of him will impact our recovery.

I don't think that's the case, but I do think she won't recover soon -- if ever -- from this and it might come down to us having very limited contact with her. Ugh!

Sunny, sorry for the thread-jack here. Ok, back to you!