Wow, your WW sounds like the female version of my STBXWH. He LOVES talking to people and is a big FLIRT.

[and you are right about the gullible part, she knows what she is doing.]

She has an independent lifestyle and allows men to meet her ENs (conversation, admiration, etc) and unless she makes some radical changes, she will continue to have affairs.

I would highly recommend you & your WW get some coaching sessions with Steve Harley because his recovery plan is very methodical and he doesn't fall for any wayward crap. He emphasizes and reemphasizes the need for ExtraOrdinary Precautions, would make sure your WW understood her lack of them was the reason for her affairs and have her come up with a written protection plan.

This not only protects the M, but also helps the BS to feel safe. If the BS doesn't feel safe, the M will just "limp" along and never recover.

In the meantime, don't try to educate her on MB. Read up on all of the basic concepts and I would stop talking about the affair/s (if you still are) and avoid lovebusters and meet her ENs and try to get some fun UA time in....

Looking to get Kindle SAA, but not available on amazon. Where are you buying it?

I didn't jump online and look for help with cheating spouses. Instead I just dove in doing what I thought to be the right thing.

We began talking of the affair. First thing she did was change her story. She told me sex never happened. She said what took place was holding hands, making out and oral sex. That was bad enough, but I exploded when she now denied ever having sex. I asked her why, because that was the first thing she admitted to on her own. She told me that she was just telling me what I wanted to hear and she knew I would never believe that she and the OM never had sex. Makes NO sense right? This went on for weeks...months. I demanded to know why. What did I do to cause her want another man. She gave me stories upon stories, each time she would change her reasons.
She told me that she was no longer happy with me. That we just didn't click anymore. She said she wanted to live a better life, more financially stable. She said it was the OMs fault, he tricked her and "played" her. The reasons went on and on until she finally settled with 'she did it because she was mad she had to get a part time job and she wanted to get even with me and hurt me the best way she knew how.'
She, at first denied any gifts or dates, but she finally told me of these things. 3 dates she admitted to. Gifts were exchanged several times.
One night I get home from work...She says shes needs to talk to me, she needs to clear her mind. Now I know I am jumping a bit, but this was some 6-8 months down the road. We still fought at times, and I am still a confused in our relationship. The first thought the crossed my mind was "Oh God, shes gonna tell me that they did have sex!" Later that night after the children were in bed she sits down with me in our bedroom and says shes been meaning to tell me this but never knew how I would take it. "You had sex didn't you?" I said. "No it's worse I think" she answered. And then she just jumps into telling me how she would be at work with him, after work they would go out to his truck and she would give him oral, and then...then she would come home and wake me up by kissing me on the mouth. OH SNAP!! To me this screams I HATE YOU! It was back on! It was like the affair just happened and I felt a low blow from hell, what a nervous wreck I was, talk about emotional roller coasters!
So the hornets nest was stirred up again, and round and round we went. After a few more weeks of this, I said I could not do it anymore and went to our pastor to talk to him. He advised a marriage counselor, and I picked one that was close by.
I had to meet with her first, and alone. I gave her all the story, as much as I knew. Then she met with my wife alone and, apparently, chewed her out and told her how wrong and awful it was to do what she was doing to me. AND then she met with the both of us. The meetings were once a week and at first seemed to focus on communication, and reaching out to open up what we love about each other. These types of meeting went on for about a month. Then at one of the meetings she said to my W, are you sorry for what you've done. My W says yes. The MC says, tell him you are sorry. So my W did. The MC said to me, and what do you have to say to her. I said "I don't have anything to say. I don't forgive her. I don't trust her and because of her I am either going to die an early death or end up in prison for the rest of my life." The MC was furious with me. She told me that I ruined all that she had been building up for between my W and I. She told me I was the cause of the affair. She told me I would be the cause of the next affair. She said with my "non-forgiving" attitude that I would continue to push my wife into affairs. She demanded that we keep coming because she was going to break how stubborn I was. Keep in mind, I am such an emotional mess at this time that SOME (a small some) of what she said made sense in a weird way. So I kept going for the next couple of months. The MCs main focus was set on making me accept my wifes apology. I never did. I told the MC that my wife had hurt me too much and with no good reason and I would not accept her apology until I heard the truth.

I just wanted to know the truth. Do you love me? Say so and look me in the eye and tell me WHY you did this to me twice!! She never could look me in the eye.

Do you not love me anymore? Just tell me! If you no longer love me or hate if you hate me, tell me. We'll get the big D and be on our way!

No GRAY AREAS! WHY can't it be either BLACK...o WHITE!?!?!

So I quit going to the nutball MC. Her last words to me were, "you get what you ask for." I shut down for awhile after this, GOD BLESS my children for keeping me sane through all this mess. I would feel alive around them.

Almost 2 yrs after the affair and no real healing done, my wife comes to me before I leave for work and says she has something else she needs to tell me and we really need to talk that night after the children were in bed. OH GOD...I thought...here we go again. I went the whole day like a walking accident and then on the way home I got a call that my father suffered a life threatening Aortic Aneurysm and my world crashed in even farther. The Dr told us that his chance of surviving the operation was at best guess a 10 percent survival rate and that we (his family) needed to say our goodbyes before his surgery. The whole mess with my wife was put on hold, i guess, and I dealt with now taking care of my moms financial needs while my father was in the hospital.

This was pretty much how it ended the talks of the affair and why I am still to this day holding up a shield while looking over my shoulder. My father, by the Grace of God Almighty, survived that surgery only to have yet another Aortic aneurysm a year later and again by Gods Grace, survived that one. I started a construction business and half of everything I made went to my parents..and still does.... My W never told me what it was she needed to clear her mind of. Its now 6 yrs after the affair...My wife got a part time job at a big name hardware store. I cringe. I gave her the same warning. I still cringe.

I don't know if further explaining my situation makes any sense. I don't know if it still makes me sound like an enabler, or a wuss. I do know that I have some battle scars.

Anyone and everyone... Please help. Any advice? Should I try to open up this can of worms again..finish it off...kill it? Do spouses that have cheated this way just continue on doing so? I know I have heard of once a cheater always a cheater...there are mixed opinions on that saying, some agree some don't. But how about twice a cheater always a cheater??

Have any questions to ask to make this more clear (in case I skipped or left anything out)?

I just need help here.

Having questions that have never been answered will always haunt one. Thirty years post Dday not knowing will haunt you.

I don't know how you were able to go to work that day after your WW said she needs to tell you something.

So tonight ask WW what she was going to tell you that night years ago.

Its pretty easy to see why your marriage has not recovered and why you are filled anxiety. She has done nothing to affair proof your marriage and as such, you sense you are headed for more affairs. She got hit by a car playing chicken - twice - and she is still playing in the road. The solution is to get out of the road. It's that simple.

Your wife has inappropriate boundaries around men and nothing will change until she changes that. You have nothing TO forgive until that happens. That is WHY she has affairs.

So you think I should open up discussions about the A again? How should I go about this? Should I set some guidlines or limits on what is to be talked about? I mean with the time frame & the poor way I handled everything will this be getting into discussing the details of what all happend in the A? Or should I simply just focus on setting up boundries?

I wish I would have known of this website from the start. With yrs behind us & I am still insecure about our marriage...i worry that it may be too late. Are there guidlines, or plans and/or steps to handle the type of situation I am in?

Whatta mess....

And you should be insecure. Playing chicken causes insecurity.

I would talk to your wife about setting up extraordinary precautions to make sure an affair doesn't happen again. Explain to her that EP's are necessary to protect you from a repeat affair and how unhappy you are. Tell her that this program is designed to affair proof your marriage and to restore the romantic love and invite her to participate. \

But what you can't do is settle for a situation that is doomed to a repeat affair. I would not settle for that. And if you, then you only have yourself to blame for your insecurity. The solution to insecurity is to change the conditions that fuel it, and that needs to happen here. Otherwise, I promise you that you are headed for repeat affairs.

Raise the bar and give her an opportunity to meet your standards.

Thanks for the advice. I'll talk to her tonight about setting up EPs & how unhappy & insecure I have been. Tonight will be good, the children are all at a sleep over. Deep breath & hope for the best....

Indy,

Do you hear what the veterans are saying? You gave your wife a slap on the wrists for her affairs. You have done little to stop them re-occuring and they have.

You've done well to get to this point in the passed few days but the law needs to be laid down. No contact with OM, a plan to EARN your forgiveness albeit 2 yrs too late, EP, and all the MB stuff to better your relationship with her.

Can I suggest you put the prior stuff with other marital self help sites away and get on with the MB. If shes not on board, thats fine, MB helps you thru that too.

But you need to stop with all the lament of past history and start working on future no matter which direction it takes you.

Lastly, a philandering wife is hugely emasculating to a guy, I know it too well. The MB proces I feel gets a little of that back to a guy. Fighting for your wife and the steps taken to defend her from a predator like all OM are is manly. And, if it ends poorly which can happen you can move forward knowing you did all you can do to save your family. And when your wife is dumped by OM which will happen you get the eternal 'I told you so' to tell her.

Hang tough.