SapphireKing, if anyone shows up to see this loser for "closure" it should be you and a couple of BIG [censored] buddies to tell scumbag he had better BUZZ OFF or HELL IS COMING.

You might want to leave your pistol in the car and just carry a big "walking stick." OM are weiners and pansies so he will be easily scared. You need to send a strong message to loserboy that this will not be tolerated.

Your wife needs to see you STAND UP for your marriage rather than enable her affair. Enabling is NOT "love" and just shows that you don't care very much.

Here is the "closure" message for this punk:

Your story and your arguments about closure seem so similar to mine that it makes me sick.

Closure. 3 years ago, I allowed my then WW to meet for that also. It was the stupidest mistake I have ever made and I will regret that to the end of my life. It did accomplish nothing, added only additional pain for me because I had to see my wife who was even more down for losing her POSOM. And the pain I just mentioned - do you think it was useful? Nope, affair did not end. It ended months later, only when I started to follow MB advice.

This is the wisest thing I have heard in ages. The shame does not come from making the mistake, it comes from continuing to make it.



Hmmm. For someone who claims to be 'obedient' she sure is making a lot of demands.

You drive the recovery bus, not the drunk who just wants to drive your marriage off a cliff.

You have told her she must be emotionally faithful to you, and she responds with 'I want to have an emotional last-time meet up with OM?'

Re-read that last sentence with the words physical inserted where it says emotional.

Would you agree to it then?

He needs to be DUMPED. Cleanly, by letter, with no right of reply. So he is left in no doubt as to her choice. You need to approve the wording, too. It is vital to your recovery.

He had no right to speak of love to a married woman. She had no right to speak of love to a man who is not her husband.

So your w and OM have no right to whine about the consequences to their friendships now. They were well aware of what was going to happen.

If she wants to go on a 'last' date with another man, so she can get another dopamine hit of 'love' you cannot turn around and tell her you are OK with that!!!

How're things SK?

SapphireKing -
Like so many of the BH here, you are failing to look at this from a female perspective.

If another man starts hanging around your woman -

and you do NOTHING except say, well, uh, uh, I don't really like that too much, honey, but uh, if it uh, makes you happy, uh, I don't want you to be mad at me, so, uh, if it makes you happy . . . uh . . .

and you just SIT THERE and let her go off with some other man -

there is NO GREATER WAY you could tell this woman that

YOU

DON'T

CARE

ABOUT

HER

If you are willing to just sit back and wait while she's out with another man, then why the *bleep* should she waste her time with you?? All you are doing is showing her that you don't care if some other man wants her and you're actually okay with that.

This is a big reason why Nuclear Exposure works so well in the case of Wayward Wives - because it shows the WW that her man is willing to stand up and FIGHT for her.

I hope you will think about this.

and


THIS

Dude, if you don't care enough to defend your wife from other men when they come sniffing around her, there is no way in the world she is going to bother staying with you. Why should she?

That's the message you are sending your wife loud and clear whenever you just sit there and shrug your shoulders when she starts talking about her boyfriend.

Did it ever occur to you that that's one reason she talks about him to your face -- to see if you're going to give enough of a damn to DO SOMETHING about it??

Mulan has it spot on - you are just handing her a big white card that says 'I dont care'. She will then use carte blanche to hit the crack pipe daily.

You are in effect saying, 'Why dont you do whatever you want to with that guy who has the hots for you? Ill be watching TV'.

Of course we know that isn't your real attitude - it is simply that you are feeling exhausted from battling with an angry, illogical wayward who has been gaslighting you for too long.

She has wrestled you into this position and instead of making you say 'uncle' she's got you to say 'FINE - go make goo-goo eyes at your boyfriend if that's what makes you happy. I dont care'

The funny thing is she wont recognise her part in this. In her justification-seeking mind she will omit her wrestling moves and only pay attention to the part where you WANT her to go off with him.

That is how she will choose to see it. Waywards love to demonise their spouses.

My husband used to tell me all the time how we were going to break up - because he could tell I wasnt happy. He would also bring up this topic when we were out with friends in the hope I would get embarassed and angry with him. Anything to make me look bad in his mind.

Do you see that she has manouevred you into looking uncaring?

The reason she feels no shame for having hurt you is the same reason she is going to meet him. BECAUSE SHE HAS TRICKED HERSELF INTO BELIEVING YOU DONT CARE.

And if you dont care, there is nothing for her to feel guilty about, is there?

Hey forum,

Sorry for the absence. I choose to do most of my internet stuff at work, as time at home is better spent on other topics.

I hesitate to mention an update, as I don't quite know where everything will go from here, and I don't wish to be known for perpetual bad advice on the forum. Despite this I go forth. Mods, delete this if it will harm others.

My WW and I had long deep discussions regarding the risk/reward of a final meeting. Leading up to my drive for a NC letter and done, she had a grand idea of letting OM down easy, us remaining friends at some point in the future, and a break turning back into the friendship we once had. I realized through introspection and education that this was not to be a possibility. Conveying that to her was difficult at best (paraphrase: she was preparing for the worst and hoping for the best). I had to destroy her hope, so that his hope could also be destroyed, and so that I could regain my own hope of our marriage recovering.

We watched the Hartley infidelity 30min clip together, and I believe that during his repeated description of the pain BS is dealing with, she understood the need to rid our marriage of this scourge. The next day, she was resolved to deal with the OM and end the relationship. However, she still felt the need to do this in person. I let her know that my wife could never do this, and that when she returned we could decide if she was able to be my wife again or not. I preped her in knowing the ways she could make him/them worse, and she wrote the NC letter.

She had a 20 minute meeting with him, alone, and the majority of the time was spent upon the topic of how do we keep NC when all our friends are joint. He had many questions about how she felt about NC, as well as the way in which our friends will know something is going on (Exposure is there for her, but I have repeatedly resisted outing him and will continue to do so unless EPs are broken). She came back looking like she had broken up with somebody, and ready to discuss the meeting. She is going through withdrawals, but they are not as debilitating as the first NC. They are more a deep sadness for losing a friend, as I have made their relationship no fun for quite some time. She has been through such tearing, that it was difficult to have a good time when they were together.

I'm sure that going against advice will have repercussions, although I don't yet know what or how bad. I know that she seems better off for being able to deliver the message in person (and I can agree somewhat as I have done something similar in dealing with a toxic person in my family). However, the proof is in the pudding, and we have barely begun to stir the pot. I'm sure that there will be more postings, but soon enough I hope to transition over to a step-up forum like recovery.

Don't think for a moment that your strong words of encouragement didn't make an impact on my thoughts and actions. Your efforts adjusted my thinking on this matter in ways that the MANY MB Q&A stuff could never quite do. Thank you, forum. You can believe I will be sticking around. Maybe one day you will see a SapphireQueen.

SK

SK, I know what's done is done, so I will just say:

You left them with positive memories, and a very easy path to romanticizing their way back to future infidelity.

A cold turkey NC letter = OM doesn't fight for WW, she gets mad at him, his balance in her LB$ drops.

A sentimental final meeting = OM wishes it didn't have to be this way, but out of respect and love for WW, he will acquiesce to her wishes. WW thinks "There, it's done, my poor, broken heart..." OM's balance in her LB$ increases.

And down the road, it is SO MUCH EASIER for her to think well and often of her OM, and wonder how it would be, with him, her soulmate, who understood her position and made the noble sacrifice to let his true love go, hoping one day she could return to him...

You see where I'm going with this, right? I know you got a lot of advice on this already, I'm just warning you about the dynamics leftover from such a last meeting.

Get cracking on recovery and work those EPs.

SK, you'd better start snooping like a bloodhound. You left them with a romantic 'finish'. Not good.

How do you know what was said? Did you at least have her wear a VAR so you could confirm that they didn't sneak off into the bushes together? Or are you relying on the words of a known liar?

This is the same as bad advice.

Why do I say this?

This BH will not follow the advice given. So know matter how good this advice could have been. The results for this BH will be the same as other BH's before him that think they know better then us.

Such as? Having been through what you are going through, I know first hand that even sleeping and eating become less important than killing the affair. Rather, I respectfully submit that our advice was a bit too strong for your palate, so you just looked the other way, stuck your fingers in your ears and went 'la la la' while you should have been fighting for your marriage.



I hope you now realise that long deep discussions with a falling down drunk are a complete waste of time. Especially since the last one resulted in her going off on a date with OM, against your wishes .



Not a word about their endless love for each other? Ok, if you say so.



It may sound like I am raining on your parade here, SK but I think you have a real shot and I would just like to see some definite actions from you.

I know you 'hope' for recovery and that appeasing her and putting blind faith in her will work, but hoping for a sandwich, isnt going to get it made. Likewise hoping for recovery isnt enough.

Lots of BSs struggle to treat waywards as addicts for some reason. It is clear to any logical person that they are addicts - they have hurt the person they love most in the entire world and often risk everything for their fix.

Are you ready to get tough on the circumstances possible for recovery?

Since you're still not willing to expose, I guess not.

Where it says you 'will' expose if he breaks EPs - I do hope you havent warned them about exposure - using it like a threat over their heads? That is not the point of exposure.

What snooping methods do you have in place?

Given that she came back all weepy like she 'had broken up with somebody'

I give it a week before contact resumes. Will you be willing to start kiling this affair then?

Btw, I think it is amazing that you are letting this guy run completely loose around your male friends wives without warning them what he is really like.

Why all the concern about the POS who shot a nuclear blast through your marriage and no thought at all about your real friends?

SK,

letting OM down easy...us remaining friends...She had a 20 minute meeting with him, alone,

Ouch, I can't believe you would put up with her meeting with him alone, not without a tape recorder or witness there, like
her Mother or Father armed perhaps. This is something out of a trashy romance novel.

...how do we keep NC when all our friends are joint.

By telling all your common friends NOW

He had many questions about how she felt about NC, as well as the way in which our friends will know something is going on

By telling all your common friends NOW

but I have repeatedly resisted outing him and will continue to do so unless EPs are broken).

So there is NO DOWNSIDE to this for OM. Exposing OM would make OM look like the heel that he is to your mutual friends and he would associate pain and shame with your W, not unfulfulled desire and a promise, someday, to be together with your

Uninformed people in your life will continue to cause you pain because they just don't know, on top of which they may try to help "mend the rift" if they assume it comes from some innocent cause.

OM4's daughter continues to send my W thank you cards for being nice to her father OM4. It doesn't feel innocent to me!

God Bless
Gamma

Since I was the one who warned you about the "closure" meeting, I feel I have to ask: what positive outcome do you see by doing it in your own way ignoring all advice that is given here? What do you hope/see in your near future?

I wish I had someone to warn me before I did my mistakes.