To recap my story, I'm a WW who got pregnant with OM's child. My BH wanted to stay with me despite what I did and raise OC together.

Well, after a long court battle, OM won rights to OC and now we must all raise OC together while I maintain NC with OM. For a while BH was handling all contact, but it was very hard on my recovery because BH would talk to OM on the phone in front of me and talk to me about OM--I felt like I couldn't truly get OM out of my head. We finally decided on an IM, but it's getting more complicated and BH now finds it inconvenient and feels it's best for OC if we all get along.

I KNOW I cannot possibly ever see OM again or else it could be disastrous to our M. I worry I will relapse into another A if I am forced to ever see OM. BH feels I should just be able to "overcome" temptation, but how can I flee temptation if it's shoved in my face? I wish I could, but I can't afford to take that risk. And I don't like how chummy BH gets with OM, which is why I wanted IM. Am I being unreasonable?

So I'm here to ask: Has anyone successfully raised a child with NC with OM, and if so, how do you do it?

WH, this is not even a negotiable issue, because what your H is proposing is dangerous to your marriage. Simply tell him no. There is to be no contact with the OM. If he has any questions about it he can personally email Dr Harley at the radio show. Don't even play around with this, WH. The answer is no. This does not even qualify for POJA because affair proofing is non negotiable.

want

sorry i don't have an answer to your question.

not trying to contradict the advice given on this site but:

when a ww has an oc

and the bh is willing to stay in the marriage and raise that child

AND om has vistation.

**edit**

question. does your h feel he has to be chummy with om or just business like respectful?

you said you were afraid of a relapse.

is your h not doing the things you need to recover your marriage?

after forcing his way into your marriage isn't the om like a terrorist to your marriage? he should public enemy #1

how could you consider that relapse?

i'm not trying to beat you up here just curious

Mel, I agree with you. I read your recent posting about keeping the program to a T and you are dead-on. I can see how shortcuts ruin everything. But even BH admits to putting OC first before me and therefore he feels what's best for OC is best for everyone. We could argue until the cows come home about the perils of contact with OM, but ultimately BH is the final decision on everything. So what I'm trying to figure out is how to present a plan to BH that allows for NC while still being good for OC and BH. That's what I have yet to discover, and that's one of the stumbling blocks in our recovery.

Pops, because BH has seen my change in my boundaries with men (I have really worked on this issue and have even dropped friends who have poor boundaries with men so that I surround myself with godly women) BH feels I should be able to overcome any temptation to slip into another A. While certainly the idea of hurting BH again is more than enough to keep me focused, I know OM--a master manipulator and we have a lot of history. I'm the first to admit I'm an emotionally needy person, and OM is cunning enough to know what to say and how to say it to get under my skin. I can't let that happen, especially since BH and I still have a lot of work to do to get to recovery.

Right now BH says his needs are all being met, but mine are far from it. AOs still are a problem, and me being fourth on BH's list of priorities doesn't help. I really want to make this M work, and I've been willing to stick to Dr. H's plan and do everything on it, but I need a willing partner who cares enough to protect our M. So it's not that I would "consider" relapse as a good option, but since my needs are not being met and LBs are still occurring, I know logically I'm at risk for another A. Even if I wasn't at risk, I still think NC is best. I think Dr. H knows better than I do.

As for why BH is chummy, it all boils down to OC being #1, but's it's more than just being respectful. They had been eating dinner together and stuff! It drove me nuts, me making dinner for my family only to find out BH isn't hungry when he gets home because he already ate with OM--WTH? Needless to say, when BH was spending more time with OM than with me I pushed for an IM. But now it's getting difficult to coordinate schedules and BH wants to just have me deal with it. I can't let that happen, but I need a workable solution. Ug.

Just wanted to point out that it is very possible and certainly practical. What is not practical is to remain in contact because of the obvious damage to the marriage. Divorce is not "practical" and is completely unnecessary and avoidable. Wanthealing is already seeing that damage. How is a damaged marriage in the best interest of the child? It's not. I understand its tempting to be lazy about cutting off contact, but it is a disaster for the marriage.

If you want to help wanthealing, pops, how about helping her find ways to ensure no contact instead of throwing her under the bus? She is here to get help for her marriage, she already knows how to mess it up.

Have you been radically honest with your H about how his contact with the OM brings back those feelings? I would lay this right out for him in a radically honest manner:

1. your contact with the OM triggers by feelings for the OM and increases the chances of a resumed affair. It keeps me thinking about OM

2. I feel withdrawn from you when you do this

3. this endangers our marriage

4. an endangered marriage harms the OC

Lay out in a very forthright, honest way. And I would also shoot off an email to Dr Harley about this. Ask him to address this situation on his radio show AND to speak to your husband.

Don't even play around with this, WH. This is something that puts your marriage in jeopardy. You have a much harder row to plow here than other affairs so you have to be even more strict if you want to stay married. And don't let anyone tell you it's not "practical" or "possible;" they are not the ones who have to face the consequences of ignoring nc after all. You and your family have to face those consequences.

But he is not doing that. What is best for that child is for her parents to have an intact marriage. His actions jeopardize the marriage. He harms the child by harming your marriage. If he wants to operate in the child's best interest, he needs to put your marriage FIRST.

This as has already been said. NC must be for life. This is also not a POJA issue. Just arrange for an IM. When BH opens his mouth just say well you can't do it any more, and I told you I was never going to deal with the OM ever because of the importance for NC so I have arranged for a IM. Then use the IM.

Now when/if BH refuses to accept the use of an IM, you just state with the same authority that you will not break NC with the OM.

Remember you are an adult and can not be forced to break NC just because it doesn't suit your BH. BH can't pickup or return OC, then OC stays where ever it is. Now if this extra time becomes a problem for OM then OM will have to work around it or get your BH to go with an IM.

Has your BH ever posted/read here?

Have you Harley books where you can highlight where doc H has pointed out importance of NC even with an OC?

How about you emailing the radio show?

The issue with IM is that using the IM inadvertently breaks our court-ordered visitation due to schedules not always working out, which is why BH wants to drop IM. So that's why the issue came up in the first place. I am still sticking to my guns with NC, but it's become an argument every time. And we may end up in court again if OM sues because I'm being "difficult," which BH wants to avoid.

I read to BH my postings, and we are actually pretty good at sharing how we feel without LBing. BH won't post though; he doesn't think Dr. H's program works in the real world. He thinks Dr. H is unrealistic, that no spouse can eliminate LBs and create romantic love regularly...though I honestly feel that if we stick to it without taking shortcuts we'll see it work. Right now BH isn't on board, so it's hard recovering with one-sided effort, so for now I'm just focusing on cleaning up myself and meeting BH's needs and eventually I think he'll see how effective it is in fulfilling him and he'll want to reciprocate.

I will e-mail the Harleys for advice. While BH may have no respect for what Dr. H says, the advice may meet what BH needs to hear.

Thanks for your replies. I feel like it's constantly one step foward, two steps back. I just want to fast forward to recovery...but I know it takes time and effort.

And keep in mind that Dr Harley will speak to him. As far as the program "working in the real world," those of us here who have actually USED the program will tell you it does work. There are MANY of us.

Dr H recommends that you get OM to pay for the IM. Have you organised that? Someone who is paid should be able to stick to schedules.

Good point, Sugar, but our original court order would have had to order OM pay for IM, and we couldn't win that. Besides that, BH was adamantly against a stranger IM handling OC. Only friends and family, which I felt was reasonable. Sadly, courts show no favor toward marriage, only child's "best interests," which caused us to lose on every count for things to protect our M.

A reminder to posters to stick to Marriage Builder's concepts or refrain from posting. Don't disrupt this thread with personal philosophies that conflict with Dr. Harley's professional advice.

Want hopefully it didn't seem like i was beating you up. i was just curious where you were at emotionally.

since om won the right to be part of oc' life i find it hard to see them ordering him to pay for im. that may backfire and they may order you to pay since it is your request to have teh im.

INStEAD can you have your atorney negotiate with om that although visits are set from 9am to 6pm (or whatever) if the im is 30 minutes late dropping of oc he will get 30 extra minutes on the back side.

if the im is late picking oc up then om gets extra time

your h may not understand that You are not completely recovered yet. that altho you want your m you are still vulnerable. so you need complete nc.

you need to make him understand the importance of nc for you

i have no idea how he can sit down to a meal with om unless he setting him up for an arsenic cocktail

Just wanted to emphasize that even if she is completely recovered, she will not be recovered anymore if she contacts the OM. She will always be vulnerable to the OM. So, if she is in recovery for 5 years and she starts seeing the OM again, she will NOT BE IN RECOVERY anymore. She will be risking her marriage.

Her husband needs to understand that she will ALWAYS be vulnerable to the OM and that no contact has to be for life.

Pops, don't worry--I didn't feel beat up. I know we're far from recovery, and you're one of the few who has lived out this situation and thus knows the difficulty of this position.

Even though Dr. H offers valid advice about NC, even with an OC in the mix, it's not always cut-and-dry, especially with a resistant spouse. For example, I will have to miss all of OC's major events in life if OM is there. How is that easy? It's not. It's an unfortunate consequence of my poor choices, yes, but it doesn't make it easy to have to let OC down because of something I did 10 or 20 years ago. I can only hope that OC will understand.

Now that scheduling difficulties are arising, and BH doesn't see how me keeping NC will be good for OC, it's creating even more conflict. BUT--I do plan to stick to NC and figure out a way to make it work. Hopefully the Harleys will have some practical advice to help.

wanthealing, and I would also point out that Dr Harley's goal is for people to have romantic, happy, SAFE, marriages. That is NOT the goal of corner cutters. When someone gives you bad advice to cut corners, I would ask if they are going to be there to pick up the pieces. They are not the ones who have to suffer the consequences, YOU ARE. They don't give a rat's [censored] about your marriage.

I believe their advice would/will be:

"make it work. Instead of spending emotional energy trying to explain why it won't work or why it's impossible, together with your spouse, brainstorm ways to make 'no contact' work"


It's NOT impossible...hard, maybe...but not impossible.

Good luck,
Mr. W

Exactly! And keep in mind that divorce is even harder. Having a bad marriage is even harder. Having a crippled marriage is what is not practical. Finding ways to implement no contact is a walk in the park compared to that!

I just e-mailed the Harleys, so hopefully whatever messsage they have for us is exactly what we both need to hear to make it work. Whether it's something we can do or a mindset that we can change, I just want to get BH and I on the same SAFE page (as you aptly pointed out, Mel).

And Mr. W, in your statement I just realized something that never occurred to me: I'm spending way too much emotional energy worrying! Geez, what a subtle wakeup call!