Thank you for the answer maritalbliss.
I do not have a separation agreement. I have seen an attorney, but there is no way to protect my family financially. In my country there r 2 types of D - one is with mutual agreement where we both will agree for the conditions and one is by fault (I dont't know the word in english - something like one of the spouses is responsible for the M failure). If I D the second way then the court decides what goes where - the maximum alimony they will give me is a ridiculously small amount and is basically not enough for anything.

We do not have anything ours, do not have savings only have loans, which I will have to pay if he vanishes. So financially the picture is not pink, actually its pretty dark.

He told my mother something like if we are not enabling him to see the kids he might make serious life changes. I think he is deciding if he will move with the OW in her country. Right now he can't even be with her, cos she is in a different country. Or he might go back to his country... I really have no clue whats in his head. Anyway he came to my country for me, he left US and all his dreams for career there to be with me (which after so many years he started reminding me). After many years in my country got his dream job, which is not doing so good now after all that has happened. So he might just leave everything here...well thats what is scaring me


I know what plan B is about. This was actually his question.

I know I have to be stronger and you guys are helping me do that. Thank you for that.

New development on my side. I went swimming few hours back and on my way out H sitting there and waiting for me. I saw him and immediately stopped not knowing what to do, he asked just for a min and I had no choice I sat with him.

He said he is missing me a lot, he is 'trying to' break up with the OW. That I should have done that (I think he meant plan B) the first time itself and he would have realized many things.

I made a mistake again, I immediately fell for it. I told him I missed him too, I kissed him when he said he is sorry for hurting me with tears in his eyes. I told him I love him, we hugged...

Now after thinking about it I know I did the wrong things. I should have not been so enthusiastic about it. I should have kept distance. I told him few times I can talk to him only after he breaks with her and is 100% sure he wants back home, but the way I did it conveyed different message

Few red flags I see now:
-He is 'breaking up' (so its again a process for him, not a one time action)
-He said he promises he will break up, but he doesnt know if things between us will get ok (so he doesnt want to come back home really he just wants to have access to me and the kids)
-He said he is convincing her to take another assignment to another country so she wont come to our country for few years. Hearing that I freaked out and told him one of the conditions I have for recovery is him to change job.. He really got upset and angry - said I always have conditions and demands and thats why things are like that between us. The tiny chance we have for getting ok I am breaking it with my conditions. He really likes this job and position and the growth opportunity. He cannot get such a good position in my country- thats true. But OW being there even in a different country is a problem for our marriage.
-He doesn't want to be with the OW cos everytime he is with her he erases memory with me blah...I expected something nicer when he asked me do I know why he doesnt want to be with her.

He said he will call me after he comes from his business trip after a week so we can talk then. So what should I do know? I know I screwed up, getting close to him and letting him in so easy. I told him few times that he should only call me after he broke off and is 100% sure he wants to be with his family, few times also he mentioned he is not sure he should come back so fast.

FALSE RECOVERY THREAD <~~~ READ THIS !!!!!

Shut the Plan B door and get new locks.


Do not answer/accept his call.
Don't you have an IM in Plan B?

Listen to me.
HE IS NOT READY TO DO THE REALLY DIFFICULT WORK OF RECOVERY.

His expectations are he comes back to you, you are so so happy to have him, and things "go back to normal".

WRONG !!!

Thanks for the answer Pepperband.
I have already had 2 false recoveries and after reading a lot on the MB forums I think I know what I have to expect if he is truly remorseful and willing to work hard on our M. And I know he is not yet and I am not going to let him back this time.

I have an IM, but for the 20 days I am in plan B, H has never used my IM. He started talking to my mother instead (she was giving him the kids).

So yesterday he made me believe he is breaking off with the OW and wants to reconcile. I am not supposed to speak to him anymore and he will try reaching me when he is back next week. What do I do? Should I have my IM send him my requirements for reconciliation now(which he already hates and is saying I am controlling him and demanding stuff all our marriage) or should I just wait.

He called the OW "stupid bixxx" yesterday

Hi there,

I have sent my WH my list with requirements for R as he has been trying to get to speak to me about "fixing things".

This is what I sent him:
- No-contact letter to OW approved by me. No contact for life with her for no reason, and other extraordinary precautions to prevent the recurrence of this affair or an affair with a new person.
- Change job - you can't be working in the same company.
- Change phones, emails, block her off facebook and any other way contact can be made.
- Fully remorseful and owning your choices and actions that lead to so much hurt and devastation (to yourself, me, children, extended family, friends, etc.)
- Absolute transparency and radical honesty
- Commitment to a marital recovery program
- Individual counseling.
- 15+ hours together weekly.

This is his answer:
"can we talk about this? you again want me to give up everything.... which I believe is the main reason we got to this mess in the marriage on the first place. I dont want to let go a opportunity to be happy with you again simply because you are asking too much from me again."

He is mostly referring to his job. Which is really a very good one and he wont get same growth opportunities in a different company in my country. Is is possible to R if they both work in the same company, but are in different countries? I think even if it is possible it is going to be much harder on me/us.

He is missing me and I am sure he is lonely, he lives alone, no kids, no me, OW - only on phone. He said he started drinking a lot and is crying every night. I think he is a total emotional wreck right now. Am feeling kinda sorry for him.

Still I do not see the full remorse and full commitment in the very little communication I had with him. He did cry, he did say he is sorry for hurting me, yet he is not fully through with her yet - he told me he is trying to get rid of her (but he has told me the same before as well)

How do I know if he is serious this time? Is it going to be another FR? I read Pepperbands thread about FR and was shocked to read that there are FR going on for years.. WTF. I dont want to waste years of my life for a FR ....

Should I speak to him to see what he has to say? Should I stay in plan B? Can I push him away by not speaking to him now that he wants back?

Are you communicating with him DIRECTLY? Are you going through an IM with these requirements?

I am sorry, but you aren't asking too much. If he feels that way, he is no where near ready to reconcile. He is NOT allowed to negotiate with you about these things. This is the MINIMUM that he would need to do. And FB should GO altogether. No blocking OW, that can be undone in 2 seconds.

I would say that you need to go into a DARK Plan B.

Plan B means ... you would NOT be aware of any name WH called OW.
Plan B is to shield you from any nonsense WH is doing.

What makes you think WH is serious about meeting your requirements for reconciliation when he won't meet your requirements of Plan B ? He weaves around your requirement of using the IM by telling your mom what he wants you to know .... A cheap trick.

If you think WH calling OW a name is an important, then you really are a pushover for any cheap trick WH has up his sleeve.

WH should be taking his OWN nasty inventory, not OW's. If she is a stupid (whatever), what is he? Where is his introspection and his insight about his vile adultery?

It's lacking. He still blames YOU for his choices. Which is not a good sign. Not at all.

He says your requirements for reconciliation are controlling, and he is correct.
YOU are now controlling who you allow in your life, and under what conditions.
Or, are you?

Do not make ANY response to anything that is not filtered through your IM.

If you hear (via your Mom or anyone other than IM) that WH wants to come home, your response is complete and 100% silence. You heard N.O.T.H.I.N.G. because you only listen to IM.

It takes a disciplined mind to stick to Plan B.

P.S.

WH's name calling toward OW is blame shifting his choices onto her.
If OW was not a stupid (whatever) would he still be with her?
Is he vulnerable to any other random woman who is NOT a stupid (whatever) ?
WH continues to blame his choices on women !!!!!!!


I see no integrity growth.
I see no insight.

YOU need to stick to your plan & tell your Mom you want to hear ZERO words uttered by WH. You want to hear ZERO comments about how WH looks. Etc.
If she starts talking to you about WH, interrupt your Mom and tell her:

"I can't hear any of this. Let's change the subject. How are you feeling? Can I do anything for you today?"

*** LINK *** to "How To Plan B Correctly"

VERY important.
So important, in fact, that it is on Notable posts !!!

Pepperband,Scotland - thanks

I don't know why I am so weak and giving in so easy. It's like I am burring my head down and forgetting all the nasty things he did to me and all the lies he said in hope that finally my husband is back. But he is not and I am not sure he will ever be. He is still so deep down in the fog, I am really disappointed on him and on myself for talking to him and starting to build up hopes.
Back to plan B

Livensi, don't be too hard on yourself. The vets 2X4 us as a sort of tough love, when we need it. Because we can not always be objective about our WH's... we want to believe that the man we loved and married is still there for us, just as he always was. I remember something Indie once posted to me... that trusting our husband's became a reflex. Whatever he said, we trusted, and we were not proven wrong. Until the affair. So when the situation changes, when our WH's lie, we still trust what they say is true. And that is what puts a BS at risk of FR... the reflex to trust, wanting to trust and believe our husband has returned.

Have you tightened up all of the cracks in your Plan B?

Your WH is trying to find the cracks in your Plan B, and he is succeeding. YOU are letting him. Remember, you can not control his actions, only YOURS. So put some putty in those cracks! Be dark.

Take some time to analyse how WH is getting through to you. And think of ways to block this.

I think your best chance at helping WH come out of the fog is by exposing him to what life without you will be like. His OW is not going to be able to meet his EN's from afar. YOU have been doing that. Maybe your WH won't return for a real recovery, maybe he will. Either way, you need to allow yourself some escape from all of the drama, for YOU.

Cause a WS isn't worth the air they draw when they spout recovery without being willing to do whatever it takes for however long it takes to recover your marriage.

Plan B is HARD. That's why.
You're still learning.
You are not perfect.
But, you are making progress.



It's hard to believe a once loving spouse can act so cruelly.


No one knows.
One of my favorite FWH's 'HerPapaBear' was really an A-hole when he was wayward.
Now, he's an amazing MB resource.
You just never know.


When you drift away from your MB Plan, which ever one it is, your emotions usually start to run the show.

And that results in ~~~>

((( BIG HUG )))

I could not make it back to plan B. Realizing whats going on my H managed to convince me to give him a chance. I see a change in him, he looks honest, yesterday I got some ugly details of the affair out of him that made me feel sick and all the bad feelings started coming back. So he is telling the truth, if I ask questions he answers and I asked a lot yesterday... may be I should not for a while.

I am sorry I did not listen to you, I know most probably this is not going to end good. I am not seeing the enthusiastic hard work on his side, he agreed on my requirements, but he is not actively seeking for help and for a way to prove to me he has changed. After seeing this I told him I give him a week in which he can prove and show to me he is ready for the hard work, and that I don't want words, but actions.

It's been 3 days since we started talking, but I feel like its been months and am getting angry that I dont see actions yet. We are still apart and agreed we will take it slowly. I am not a very patient person by nature and I tend to push things. So I don't know right now am I rushing him or am I right to expect seeing his enthusiastic actions towards recovery? I had to remind him few times of the no contact letter and asked him at least several times to write in a wayward forum for advice (I don't want to point him to MB yet, cos I don't know where this will end). He still has not done it - his work is very demanding and the evenings we spend together, but if saving a marriage is your main goal you would find 30,40 mins to do these 2 things right?
He promised he will write the no contact letter today, lets see.


He is nice to me, apologized many times, cried several times, calling me many times, but I still feel something is not right. May be I am having very big expectations and things will happen slowly?

He says he wants to be loved and cared for and ' what about him' after hearing all my expectations. I do love him, but how do I put all the hurt behind? I can't make him feel like that now, I feel lots of anger. I am expecting soo much from him and am getting almost nothing. My taker is definitely not happy.

I will not stick to this if I don't see what I need and what I want. I think he knows I am serious and plan B is a better place for me if in this one week I still feel the same way.

I tried finding threads for transition from plan B to R, but couldn't. Anyone to give me links on this?

Thank you all so much for the support. This is my save place although I feel like I have let you down by listening and letting him back, may be I have let down myself as well. As my WH says - "Time will show".

Has he ended it with OW? How have you confirmed that the A is over?

He says he has. He told his mom, our friends, but he has done that before and didn't keep his word. There is no way I can know for sure. Planning to start snooping again. He looks sincere , he understands his life is a mess...that again doesn't mean anything.

Have you explained to him what you will require him to do in order to attempt recovery? NC letter, complete transparency with his phone and computer, complete accountibility for his whereabouts, working MB, etc?

Yeah I did and he has agreed. So far for 3 days has not written the nc letter.

Why has he not done so? What is his reason?

No reason, he works around 10 hrs, the evenings we are together. Every day he says he's going to do it and in the evening says he did not have time. He has promised for today but I don't see anything in my email yet. May be he really did not have time plus he says it's stupid to contact her to tell her he's not going to have contact with her. He does not seem very motivated

MAKE TIME FOR IT TONIGHT.

Like we say here, watch his ACTIONS. So far, his actions are saying that he is NOT committed to recovery(no matter what his words may be portraying).

Have you thought about having a coaching session with the coaching center? How about the online course?