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Well, this was a colossal mistake.
Nothing happened on his end, which is good. But when I say nothing happened, I mean nothing!!! Even though I know I told him this separation was going to be extremely worrisome to me and that I needed him to text and call to help me through it, nada.
Ok that's not exactly fair. In the early afternoon, I texted him while on the road, making fun observations of my trip in hopes of connecting him to me. Even though he was extremely busy, he did respond.
But then I went to the service and I knew he had work, and his two meetings,AND that I'd asked to reach out to me, so thought it was time to see where I ranked on an admittedly busy day.
Bupkis. Although he posted a comment on a Facebook picture I uploaded from dinner with my relatives. But zero texts. Zero call
And in my head I'm thinking: I get NOTHING ALL day & when he was in is STUPID FRACKIN AFFAIR he sent HUNDREDS OF GD texts to POSOW and spent HOURS and HOUR on the friggen phone with her.
Aaaaaaarrrrrgggggggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So finally send a text: I don't know what's going on, but I'm going to bed. He responds: do u want me to call u?
I respond (thinking, well no sh$t, Sherlock.) But write: only if u want tso we talk. He's flabbergasted that I feel neglected. And that I didn't make it clear to him what i needed. And he's a little on the defensive side. He also said he didn't want to interrupt my time with my family & that he had been waiting since 9 pm to hear from me.
And before anyone jumps on the he's still wayward bit, he is not. He was where he was. Supposed to be all night.
I just don't get his complete lack of contact despite my specifically asking him. I mean JEESH! THIS WAS THE First night we've been apart since REQUIRED. Hell(
Oh, and I don't think I LB'd my disappointment in no contact, cause I didn't mentioned his outrageous textiing/calling to POSOW. Just that I. Felt super neglected, and that I had not made it ABUNDANTLY clear what I needed from him. Ugh!!!!!!
We did end the call on very good notes, but u can tell I'm still unnerved by it. I mean ONE STUPID TEXT FROM HIM DURING THE evening would have done it!!!!
Am I being crazy?
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Sweet,
I hear your frustration, look at the positives, he was where he was suppose to be, he is just afraid to make the wrong move.......
I know it's hard, I feel that way at times too, my husband put so much effort into talking and texting his OW.......and then we get the I'm busy line.........Just keep communicating what it will take for you to have this work..........he needs to learn what and how you need your emotional needs to be met........
It is extremelly hard to be apart at first, it's been almost 2 years and I just went away for an overnighter for a golf tournament and it's the first time I felt safe about it..........
Just stay calm and be that woman he wants to call and make him miss having you there........it all does come together with time.........
patience and integrity and grace Sweet, stay with it..........
jessi
BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
Working on Recovery
Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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Jessie. Tx! I'm glad I bitched here & not to him.
Fled to hear there are times we will feel safe.
I will take your words to heart & tx for listening & sharing.
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What a ride these last two days have been. Below, I will paste a note a sent to my SIL about my husband. Our husbands, who are brothers, cheated on a golf trip last November. Since then, her WH has been diagnosed a sex addict and narcissist with an intimacy disorder who also was sexually molested as a teen. She believes much of her life/marriage have been manipulated by her WH, who had multiple, multiple affairs and entanglements. My FMH was not diagnosed a sex addict in therapy, despite three affairs and one attempted affair in his two marriages (I'm his second wife; i was NOT an AP). My FWH is fully capable of being faithful, according to his therapist. So with that diagnosis, we're doing MBs, and counseling and on a wonderful path to recovery. SIL has been gaslighted, trickle-truthed to death, from within six months of her 27-year marriage. She did, however, say that her WH had finally hit rock bottom and understands the gravity of his problems and what he's done to her and his family. He is desperate to reconcile. So, even though she still sounded like she probably wasn't going to recover (which is perfectly justified in my opinion), I suggested that perhaps she should try some Marriage Builders techniques to see if there was any hope in her WH's recovery and their marriage. She sent a note back saying that our husbands are carbon copies of each other, and that my FWH will undoubtedly cheat and manipulate me. She believes he is as evil as his brother. Her note -- sent to me on Friday, the eve of my FWH's affair -- was tough to read. Her pain and agony came through loudly. But here's the interesting part: Nothing she wrote about my FWH seemed quite right, other than his affair. Here's my response to her, and I shared it all with my husband. In retrospect, it seemed like a great testament to our hard work and the hope I have for our future. Makes me sad that she has been so torn apart: SIL:
I appreciate all your words and thoughts, even if they were tough to read at times. I thank god your kids have you to rely on.
I can totally understand that 30 years of BS is enough. You never deserved it in the first place, and if you have decided to move on, I will do my utmost to help you through it. You will find your spark again; you�re far too strong a person not to. You�re just too battered and bruised right now to do anything but survive. But you will. I know it. You are smart, capable, fun and interesting. You will be great.
For me, it boils down to this: Is (my FWH) capable of change? Right now, I am saying yes. I have seen it every day since he began therapy. Has he been perfect? Nope. Did we and do we still struggle? Yes. Do I see challenges ahead? Absolutely. But I also see hope. Because of this, I am committed to helping him become a man, husband and father of true integrity. I actually consider it in my best interest. He helps me with my weaknesses, too.
I appreciate your warnings and history of (my FWH). What a horrible [censored] as a young man. He certainly was an [censored] when he was having his affair. He says he never wants to be that way again. But his actions will prove or disprove his talk.
Did he marry me so that he could get his thrills with cheating? It�s certainly possible. I haven�t found any evidence beyond golf weekend and Minneapolis. And I�m a pretty good sleuth. I nailed his a$$ within six weeks of his calling that POSOW. As the daughter of a cheater and a child of divorce, not to mention being a journalist, I�m predisposed toward skepticism. However, you can bet that I will use any tool in my arsenal to ferret out any deviations. And (my FWH) knows that lies from his past are as serious as those of his future.
I do not blame (BIL) for (my FWH�s) affair. I blame my husband's genetics, family environment and his free will for all of his mistakes, and yes, he is his own man. I DO -- absolutely! -- blame BIL for accepting his brother�s infidelity and for helping create � along with my husband and their friend -- an environment that encouraged cheating. I�m certain (my FWH) would have cheated eventually because he never addressed his previous cheating and what drives him to do it. That was a huge, ugly, costly, mistake on his part.
But (my FWH) is fully capable of keeping his vows now. He says he has figured his issues out. I will help him to the best of my abilities, but I will not be a doormat, either. Time will tell.
As far as fatherhood. I have always assumed that FWH cares deeply for the boys. Yelling? Yes. Lack of patience. Sadly, yes, too. But he is making progress on those. And I�m not making it up. He�s actually better in fights with DS17 than I am now. Mistakes with parenting? Far too many, I�m sure. But pathological indifference? Zero connection? I�m having trouble seeing it in my FWH.
So, here�s my plea to you. Should it turn out that my FWH IS a carbon copy of your WH and I�m wrong about his ability to change, I hope you will support me should it come crashing down. But, conversely, if he does continue his climb out of the gutter, I hope you�ll give him a chance.
Please know you can count on me in whatever you decide with BIL.
Sending you an eHug!!!!!!
Cindy I shared this with FWH. And we talked, and talked, and talked about a lot of things, including the affair and how sometimes I still feel wrecked by it. It was a GREAT conversation with FWH, and my explanation to her about why I was staying made my FWH feel awesome for his hard work and grateful to have me in his life. Hopefully, I'll make it through tonight (ANTIversary of his second night of boning her on the golf trip), then the ANTIversary of his calling her to start the long-distance affair, and finally DDay.
Last edited by sweetpea2011; 09/26/11 09:22 AM.
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Made it through first ANTIversary dates. I'm proud that I did not love bust, and I'm glad that we did talk very deeply about a lot of issues my SIL's email dredged up.
I just really hope that I'm assessing my FWH correctly, and that I'm not being fooled by him, as my SIL purports.
I mean, I really do believe I would have KNOWN if he had had multiple dalliances and affairs. She said she knew, but never got to the bottom of it because her WH always gaslighted her and browbeat her into making her feel like she was crazy.
Am I smarter than that? Or am I too smart for my own good, and don't see my FWH's "true" nature as an evil narcissist?
I think I've good a solid bead on his personality and character. It's just this family dynamic does make me wonder some times ...
Any thoughts out there?
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Perform your "due diligence" (cell records, e-mail, credit card review) and then let it go.
SIL's experience does not have to be reflected in yours. Trouble comes to all of us, but looking for trouble may create trouble!
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NG: Great advice.
Today, I looked into his cell phone records and there are no "outliers" in terms of huge amounts of talking to any specific number, or concentrated texts. But, the records only go back to 2009. Our email is clean, but he would use another account (as he did in his affair) if he were going to do that.
He has agreed to a lie detector and any kind of spyware I want to insist upon whenever I want it. I just don't feel the need right now.
I believe SIL (who truly was put through the wringer with BIL) wants to demonize my FWH along with her WH and their entire family as a way to help her extract herself from what she thought was a very good marriage. It's almost like she is rewriting her ENTIRE history with her WH to justify her leaving. But her WH's actions are more than enough to justify any divorce on her part.
Earlier this year while we were chatting about the affairs, she said she used to think my FWH (and her WH) were the two men she admired the most in the world, pre-affair. Now, to her, my WH is an undiagnosed sex addict who has never done a good thing in his entire life. And he only married me, she claims, in order to create a situation so that he would be "cheating," because regular "dating" wasn't exciting enough for a deviant like him.
Well, it's true: He didn't like dating. He's an introvert by nature and likes being in a relationship. He was married to his first wife for 16 years, and says he didn't want to divorce, despite their mutual affairs and troubles.
Yes, he did cheat on first wife (twice; none were me!), and now once on me. But he "gets" it now. In fact, as we were discussing things this weekend, he said: You know, our marriage has finally showed me that I had to grow up. And I like it.
I like it, too.
Thanks NG!!! I will be vigilent, but I won't go looking for trouble!
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He has agreed to a lie detector ... I just don't feel the need right now.
CLANG! CLANG!
No, SP2K11, that is an incorrect answer. The answer might be marginally correct for today, but you have just been presented a GIFT to close out all those niggling little doubts that will pop up over the next 6 - 12 months, and you turned it down? You were offered the key to the puzzle of "Why is my FWH not like my WBIL (aka: STFU, SIL!)" and you said "NO, thank you"?
Taking him up on his VERY thoughtful gesture IS part of the due diligence I mentioned. Get 'er done.
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Taking him up on his VERY thoughtful gesture IS part of the due diligence I mentioned. Get 'er done. I second that motion!
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NG:
What happened to let it go?
I feel VERY secure about FWH's affair history. And even feel even MORE secure about where we are because of our MB work, and hours and hours of counseling.
He will do it in a heartbeat, but I feel like you guys are pushing me to do something that will be a waste of money.
Honestly. If I felt weird at all, I would take him up on it. If I discover something that makes my antenna start quivering, I will.
After all these months? Really?
Obviously, I'm having trouble seeing the value....
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Make him take a lie detector for my SIL's benefit?
I say my FWH's ACTIONS will prove her wrong in the end (or not, if he cheats again, but that's out of my control).
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My first post:
Perform your "due diligence" (cell records, e-mail, credit card review) and then let it go.
My next post:
Taking him up on his VERY thoughtful gesture IS part of the due diligence I mentioned. Get 'er done.
I am a much-learned student of military history. One of the major characteristics of successful leaders in that most demanding of all human endeavors, from Napolean, to US Grant, to DD Eisenhower, is that they did EVERYTHING possible, took EVERY pain, explored EVERY option, (aka: their "due diligence") until there was no more to do. Then they put their pieces in motion, trusting in their result.
I'm suggesting nothing more, or less, for you.
And just to satisfy the Southerners lurking around here - pesky critters! - I'll quote TJ Jackson, who, during his Shenandoah Valley campaign, told his troops, "I shed your SWEAT today, that I might spare your BLOOD tomorrow." You should expend the extra EFFORT today, to avoid lingering DOUBTS tomorrow.
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NG:
I will seriously consider your advice.
And on a Southern note, we just spent a week in Tennessee and wandered around Signal Mountain. Very moving.
Cheers,
Sweet:
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Should have gone to lookout mtn and chicamagua park. Im very close to both and they are beautiful today.
Me -BS 40
Him - FWH 34 (dtl)
3 D-Days from 12/25/10 to 01/06/11
NC - 01/09/11
02/20/12 done beating my head on that wall.
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Love busted my husband REALLY badly today. Ugh!
We gave each other very romantic, excellent massages last night and used our Aveda oils, which we are running low on.
The oils have been a bit of a trigger for me. When FWH was going to meet POSOW for the second time, he bought her a set of oils and scented candle and packed them along with a nearly exact set for me, because we were traveling together before he left for a biz meeting.
So, I made him throw the offending versions away, and because I love my Aveda oils, I have kept up with them, even though they sometimes remind me of the time he bought a second, secret set.
So, we're at lunch today at our favorite sushi spot, and I say I'm going to get new oils to replenish our stock. FWH says to be careful which bottles I buy, because the last time he bought them he bought the more expensive versions and it came out to $70.
Kicked in the gut. $70 because he was buying duplicates.
I get really quiet, and then blurt out: Yeah, twice as expensive because you bought some for HER!
He gets a totally wounded, then REALLY annoyed look on his face.
I feel bad, really bad.
We worked through it, and on my way home, I decided that the way to vanquish POSOWs stupid oil is to TAKE my FWH to the store and sample new fragrances together. Make it fun. Make it sexy. Make it about US and OUR likes.
Need a 2x4 on this one, though!
P.S. for LuvsD: We went whitewater rafting on the Ocoee River. Awesome. I found the whole area quite beautiful.
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Sweetpea,
I don't really think that was much of a lovebuster from your perspective and I don't think you should feel too bad. Of course, don't bring it up again in the future. Him getting really annoyed - that's a lovebuster and shows an insensitivity to your feelings.
A few months ago, my H and I were walking our dog around a one mile road around a pond. We met a woman talking on a cell phone and then we saw her two more times, still talking on the cell phone. My H made a negative comment about her length of conversation. Then I said to my H that maybe she was talking to a boyfrind and that in the past he had often spoken on the phone for much longer periods of time. My H's facial reaction was one of remorse.
Re. the monitoring of cell phones, computers, etc. I do it whenever I feel like it. Sometimes, around D-day anniversaries, I look more often than other times, whatever I need to feel comfortable. H knows I might be looking at any time. He is also welcome to look at my cell phone or computer correspondence any time he wants. He never does though.
AM
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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I get really quiet, and then blurt out: Yeah, twice as expensive because you bought some for HER!
Then I said to my H that maybe she was talking to a boyfrind and that in the past he had often spoken on the phone for much longer periods of time.
So, ladies, if a year (or two years!) is not a barrier to sticking the past in the eye of your FWH, how much time would be sufficient separation for refraining from this type of thing? Five years? Ten?
And stating that the FWH getting "annoyed" is a love-buster? Really?
(I tend to avoid BW threads, and now I remember why - you folks are TOUGH!)
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Neverguessed,
I used to be a tough Soldier. Now, I am more often a reactive puddle of emotional mess. I do see your point above.
I agree that talking about triggers is a lovebuster on the BS part and should be avoided. This has been my biggest challenge in the past and is only now getting better. They do happen occasionally, especially when H is "out of tune" with something that bothered me, i.e. in this case, the amount of time he spent talking with OW versus with me.
Once, I asked Dr. Harley how to handle these types of situations. To paraphrase his advice, he said it was acceptable to state that X was bothering me and why and make no further comment. But it should not be couched in a DJ. So, yes, my comment to H was probably a veiled DJ. Since the affair, I have had increased issues in identifying my own DJs. For the first 25 years of marriage, DJs and AOs were nearly non-existant.
Our marriage limped along with almost no recovery for nearly 2 years until we attended the MB weekend. Another thread talks about resentment and the idea that if there is more to resent, then it takes longer and takes more effort. H lied for years, effectively "sticking me in the eye with his affair". There was much to resent. H has made a huge effort in the past year and a half. With H's increased effort in recovery, my DJs have decreased. Occasionally, H has pointed out that comment X was a DJ. I consider what I said, apologize if it was a DJ versus a complaint and try to do better.
Sweatpea, I don't know if any of this is helpful. I do empathize with your reaction.
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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NeverGuessed:
I haven't even hit the 1-year ANTIversary of my DDay. So, I can't tell you how long it's going to take.
But I can tell you that I am not fully recovered, and I'm no saint. So even though I work on my MB's techniques EVERY SINGLE DAY, MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY, sometimes I slip. Not often, but sometimes.
But hey, my mistakes don't involve me letting a whorish man seduce me within two hours of meeting him. And hey: My slips don't involved hundreds of lies, deceit and scheming.
My faults? Letting the pain of my FWH's affair get the better of me. Like maybe 10 times in the nine months that I've known about it. Should it be zero? God help me, 'cause I wasn't capable in the beginning. But it happens RARELY now.
And if you re-read my post, I said my FWH's expression was "wounded" then annoyed. And he doesn't get annoyed often, so I knew I had DJed.
Sorry if I sound defensive, but, well, I am!
ARMYMAMA: Yeah, I have to work EXTREMELY hard not to DJ on texting and phone use. FWH logged HUNDREDS of texts and hours with POSOW.
And I've recently had TWO incidents with FWH that he needed to up his communication to me through text or calls because 1) I was out of town for a funeral and needed that connection to him and FROM HIM for once! He failed miserably. I finally texted him, and THEN he responded. Didn't understand why I was so crushed, even though I SPECIFICALLY TOLD HIM HE NEEDED TO REACH OUT TO ME!!! Really felt like crap when the phone was silent from his end ALL DAY. UGGGG!
2.) He was at a rare late business meeting (I confirmed with his boss, who was there and knows FWH had affair) that he said would run until 7 or 7:30. I took the dog for a VERY angry walk at 9:10, still not having received a call or text telling me he was going to be late Here's what he said: I didn't even have time to go to the bathroom (total BS). Why didn't you call me if you were so annoyed? Then I could have excused myself from the table and we could have talked. My response was: It would have taken you exactly five minutes to excuse yourself and send me a text and alleviate ALL of my concerns. Probably even less time than that, and you didn't. Why should it ALWAYS be ME to be the one to reach out, especially if I'm not even the one who is freakin' late?
I don't think it's too much to ask that the PERSON WHO CHEATED and MANAGED TO CREATE HUNDREDS OF EXTRA HOURS FOR AFFAIR CHATTING VIA TEXT AND PHONE carve out TWO FREAKIN' MINUTES for his ACTUAL LOVING ADORING WIFE to tell her he loves her or is running late.
UGh!!!! Admiration and attention are two of his big needs, and not so much for me. But ON OCCASION, I need that reassurance, and so far, he's failed miserably.
It's like he thinks life is totally back to normal, so he doesn't even need to make even the smallest effort, even when I genuinely seek it in loving ways.
But Armymama, I will DEFINITELY try to take your approach the next time: Tell him that I feel like crap, not blurt something angry out.
Thanks for the support!
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H has made a huge effort in the past year and a half. With H's increased effort in recovery, my DJs have decreased.
AM, if I may, could I offer a mind-trick I used on myself?
As much as feasible, attempt to separate Mr. AM of affair-time from Mr. AM of today. The former was a louse, the latter is trying to heal the damage.
Look, he will NEVER be able to erase the marks he left by his infidelities on the walls of your safe-room. Give him the opportunity (and help him as possible) repaint (wallpaper?) the entire room with his new actions and attitudes. After two years, it seems you should be done with noticing the old marks.
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