Myrtle83,

POJA is the acronym for "Policy of Joint Agreement." In short, the POJA means to never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse. Many MB forum posters also use the term POJA as a verb, meaning "to negotiate."

Here is the link to the POJA:

POJA--Policy of Joint Agreement

If my H and I had used POJA from the beginning of our marriage, so many better decisions would have been made, because two peoples brains working together for a solution are better than one person's.

If you and your H incorporate the POJA into your marriage and negotiate to find a lifestyle that is compatible to the BOTH of you, there will be no resentment. The goal is to brainstorm and negotiate until you reach enthusiastic agreement.

No one is saying that either you or your H will immediately rush out and commit adultery; however, traveling jobs DO indeed have very high rates of adultery. And since most marriages never recover from adultery, they also have very high rates of divorce.

How can a couple in which one travels constantly hope to live an integrated lifestyle? Well, they can't. To cope, each learns to live independently of the other. When my H deployed, I missed him terribly at first. But I learned to cope without him and created a lifestyle that suited ME. Of course, right? So then there was no longer a large place in my life where H fit in; his role became smaller and smaller as time went on. When he returned home for his 10-day R&Rs, I felt cramped and put upon, although I always pushed these feelings out of my head, reminding myself that this was my HUSBAND for heaven's sake, not a visitor. But he DID become a visitor in his own home. I had to make household and financial decisions without him, so no POJA. The car broke down for good, engine gone, and I bought another without his input.

In our case, we ended up suffering the disaster of adultery during the last stint of his deployment. And he was a "good" man who had good values. He knew what he was doing was wrong but he was addicted to the high of the OW, so his good sense flew out the window. My H nearly deserted me after 30 years of marriage; not only that, he was willing to never see our daughter or grandchildren again. Adultery makes people incredibly illogical. It is a disaster to be avoided at ALL costs.

We are both very grateful for MB, but we sure wish we had discovered it before we were separated for so long. We would have negotiated and found something that worked for our marriage instead of for our pockets.

Dr. Harley estimates that adultery occurs in 60% of all marriages. Many of the affairs are committed because one or both of the spouses are able to live a secret second life, often due to travel. It's just not worth the risk.

Oh, yes, and neither of us would have believed it if someone had told us this would have happened to us. We had a good marriage and we had good morals. We should have paid attention to the statistics. We were taking a big chance, played with fire (not realizing it in our ignorance) and lost the bet.

A good marriage is so wonderful that we should do all we can to promote its health and strength. You're not asking your H to do something for YOU by saying the career decision needs to be negotiated. A good marriage is very satisfying to a man as well.

Myrtle, the divorce rate in marriages where there are traveling jobs is epidemic. We have spouses that show up on our forum every week whose traveling spouses are in affairs. That is the real risk to your marriage. The greater risk of resentment will be from you, as your marriage crumbles, because it will be unceasing.

On the other hand, any resentment he might feel about changing to a non traveling job will be short lived, because the payoff is a happy marriage. He can get another job he enjoys just as well without the travel. You can't replace the marriage. He will forget his resentment, in other words, but you won't forget yours because you will be facing this every day.

His travel is bad for your marriage, period. If his career is important enough to sacrifice your marriage then the bigger problem is that his career takes priority over your marriage.

My suggestion to you is to send an email to Dr. Harley and have him explain on the radio why your husband needs to find another job. This way you can just play the radio clip for your husband and let Dr Harley do the explaining. Go to the radio link at the top of the page and it will give you the email address. [it is free and they send you a free book for the question]

myrtle, like I said, the greater risk here is your resentment, not his. Yours is what Dr Harley calls "Type A" resentment, his would be "Type B," which is fleeting and temporary.

from Effective Marriage Counseling pg 112-113

What about Resentment?

One of the most common objections to to the POJA is that it creates resentment when it is followed. I agree; it does usually create some resentment. But far more resentment is created when it is not followed. An illustration will make this important point.

George is invited to watch football with his friend Sam. He tells his wife, Sue, that he plans to accept the invitation. Sue objects.

If George goes ahead and watches the game, he's guilty of independent behavior. He is not following the POJA and Sue will be resentful. When George does something against the wishes of Sue, I call her resentment type A.

If George follows the POJA and doesn't accept Sam's invitation, then George will be resentful. When George is prevented from doing something because of Sue's objections I call this resentment type B.

Which type of resentment makes the largest love bank withdrawals: type A or type B? The answer is type A, and thats why the POJA helps build love bank balances. I'll explain.

When G violates the POJA, Sue has no choice but to feel the effect of the thoughtless decision [love bank withdrawals] for as long as memory persists - possibly for life whenever the event is recalled. But when George follows the POJA, the negative effect is limited in time. It only lasts as long as it takes to discover an enjoyable alternative that is acceptable to Sue.

George lets Sue know how disappointed he is with her objection but is willing to discuss other options. Sue wasn't invited to watch football and doesn't want to invite herself to Sam's house so she suggests inviting Sam and his wife to their house to watch football. George calls Sam, he and his wife accept, and the new activity puts an end to George's type B resentment.

Type A resentment can last forever, but type B resentment stops the moment a mutually enjoyable alternative is discovered. Those with poor negotiating skills may have trouble seeing the difference because they have not learned how to resolve conflicts. They may feel resentment about a host of issues that have been unresolved in their marriage. But after you teach a couple to negotiate successfully, unresolved issues are minimized. Then it becomes clear to them that the POJA helps build Love Bank balances by eliminating type A resentment.

Melody, I listened to the radio clips you forwarded this morning and I will play them to H if needs be. I plan to tell him this evening that he needs to find another job as opposed to simply cutting down his travel, which probably wouldn't be possible anyway. Thanks. Just wish I'd made my objections 3 months ago before he started the job. He seemed pretty quiet with me last night after the previous evening when I told him how unhappy I was with his travelling. He doesn't tend to speak much about how he feels so denied there was any problem. Will let you know how he reacts, but I have enough support to know it's the right thing to say. Thanks again.

It has come as no surprise to me that the conversation didn't have a good outcome. I asked H how he felt about me having raised the topic a few days ago and he said it had upset him. I went over my reasons again for feeling as I do about the situation but he feels that it is his fault and I am blaming him for the situation, not the case at all, but H does have a lot of communication issues and whenever I have a problem or issue he takes it on board as his sole problem and feels that I am being critical of him, goes silent and offers me no support. This was not the case at all, I purely said how his travel made me feel and my worries for our future if the situation can't be changed.

This all culminated in his telling me he likes his job, it's interesting and he doesn't want to leave it, and a fair compromise to him is to cut down his travel to once a month, if possible, period. he thinks I'm seeing it in black and white, that he either leaves his job or he doesn't and there is no in between. My previous threads should indicate that isn't how I feel, but he seems blinkered to his own feelings and not overly receptive of mine.
He told me that the discussion was making him uncomfortable and he was distancing himself from it and from talking to me. This is his response to all difficult subjects so they just don't normally get discussed. Like most of our problems they are swept under the carpet and fester and never truely get resolved because he feels so uncomfortable talking about them.

In the end I left the house and went for a drive, I felt so upset and angry and felt it better to vent that to myself than end up arguing about it which was not what I wanted to do. I feel so hurt and upset today about the whole situation and wish he had never taken the job in the first place as it's purely adding to our other problems.

Myrtle, I would keep this on the front burner until a solution is found that makes you both enthusiastic and is GOOD FOR YOUR MARRIAGE. I know it is tempting to settle for bad deals when a spouse is upset, but that will not bode well for the future of your marriage.

I would suggest you write Dr Harley on his radio show and he will read and answer your email on the air. They will give you a chance to call in but that is optional. Let Dr Harley tell your husband [on his radio clip] why he needs to stop traveling.

And if that doesn't work, then get phone coaching with Dr Harley's son and he can persuade your husband to stop traveling.

But please keep this on the front burner until it is resolved. You are right to stand up for your marriage like this. You rightly perceive this is going to go badly and it is.

1) You should worry about affairs...my DH was travelling and overseas alot (when he took the job that is not what it was supposed to be) and ended up having an affair. I thought I was at home supporting him taking care of the home front (All Domestic Support, Raising two teens, and Full Time job) but evidently that was not enough.

2) I think you need to understand that for him it was probably very scary not having a job for a long time and he is probably so releived to have one now. Also he just started in this job so he probably feels that it is difficult for him to say "yes, I know this job required travel but I don't want to travel".

3) You have to jointly make a commitment that you will talk each day even if it is for 15 minutes.

4) You both have to promise to "put a fence around" your marriage...that is, no spending RC time alone with members of the opposite sex. For him it means no going out to business dinners with only a woman.

5) Tell him that you would like to come up with a mutually agreaable long term plan for him to not work in this type of job...be it in the same company or a different one.

6) He probably isn't having as much fun as you think he is...usually it is fly in, go to meeting, fly out and you never get to see the interesting places that you are traveling to.

7) When you do talk to him now, make sure it is a pleasant experience for him. Don't complain too much.

Having been laid off twice during the dot-com bust, I can attest to this. I was out of work for three months when my wife was pregnant and we were both terrified. I wound up taking a job 300 miles away and commuting home on weekends. It was a near disaster - not in terms of an A, but of growing apart at a time when we really needed to be together.



Again, totally agree. When I was working for (big defense company) a few years ago, it was fly in, workworkworkworkwork for two weeks, fly out. Hotel rooms started looking the same and I never saw any 'sights'. Many times I woke up and wasn't sure what city I was in. I was traveling with a bunch of young single guys (and guys who were married but acted single ) and I made sure to not go bar hopping with them. So I sat alone in my hotel room drinking and feeling sorry for myself...it really messed with my head.

Myrtle, to wannabophim's point, domestic support alone will never be enough because people do not fall in love and stay in love over domestic support; it is not an intimate emotional need. And neither will daily phone calls do the trick. Phone calls are nice, but never enough to overcome a separation. My H and I found out the hard way that even 8 to 10 phone calls and daily skyping would not overcome the detachment.

Your fears about resentment are well founded. But it is not his resentment that threatens your marriage, but YOURS. Please keep this on the front burner and continue to complain until this changes. Complaints are good for marriage. Don't give up!

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I plan to tell him this evening that he needs to find another job as opposed to simply cutting down his travel, which probably wouldn't be possible anyway. Thanks. Just wish I'd made my objections 3 months ago before he started the job.

Kind of contradictory, don't you think?

Quite a few DJ's in your posts also.

I don't see any disrespectful judgements. What I do see is that we need to need to help her persuade her husband to stop traveling even is that means leaving his job. Cutting back on travel will not work unless she can go with him.

Perhaps the correct phrasing to her husband is "dh, I need you to find another job that doesn't include traveling because I miss you too much when you are away."

She doesn't know exactly what her dh's needs are. She can guess at them, though.

Americanjin.....a fair point but I'm looking for useful advice not unhelpful criticsim. I also see no DJ's.

We sat and talked about it again when we were both calmer and have come to an amicable agreement on what we should do....H has said once the upcoming trips he has to do immediately are over he will cut down on his travel as much as possible until we can find a more permanent solution. I.e he finds another job or we reach a level of travel that doesn't cause either of us problems. Thank you everybody for your helpfuladvice and support. I am very grateful and feel much happier about the situation.

Good job, Myrtle!! And keep it on the front burner until it is resolved.

Wen my hubby had to travel for his training we bought him a small laptop with a webcam and made sure he always had internet connection wherever he stayed. As soon as he could escape back to his room we turned both our webcams on and talked a little while we each pottered around doing other stuff. Even when we just wanted to relax and watch a movie we left the webcams on so we could see each other and talk if we wanted, or not. It gave me a real sense of connection that telephone calls didn't, and meant I knew exactly where he was and what he was doing every evening. Thankfully though he has never had the sort of job where evening meals or socialising is required.

I only posted this to help you find ways to get through the remaining unavoidable travel while maintaining as much connection as possible and minimising resentment. Not to say travelling is ok, because its still hard but knowing my husband was rushing home to his hotel room to spend as much time with me as possible on webcams helped a lot.

Myrtle, one solution the Harley's have suggested until another job is found would be for you to travel with him. This eliminates the problem of overcoming the independent lifestyles that quickly develop. What my H and I found when we were apart 3 nights a week, is that independent lifestyles very quickly developed. It was a disaster to our marriage, so we started traveling together until we could move permanently.

Travelling together isn't possible unfortunately, it would be impractical as we have children at home, in school. Its also not possibly financially, as a flight to the USA or China from the UK is an awful lot! Would be lovely if I could though.

The webcam is a lovely idea Rosycheeks, but we're up against big time differences when H travels though, usually one of is 7/8 hours ahead so may be awkward to fit in for us. It would be nice to see him, when I'm missing him.

If he is 7/8 hours ahead of you then he can be in his room in the evening and you can arrange to be home at that time with the webcams on. Even if you're doing housework or playing with the kids, he gets to be part of your family life for that time in the daytime then.

If you're 7/8 hours ahead of him then its harder, you could change your sleep hours around so you're getting up earlier to see him on webcam before he goes to bed at night.