Hey TheRoad........this isn't the thread to express YOUR opinions and YOUR feelings. Do that on your own thread. This is WPG's thread. She feels bad enough already without you making it worse. Take your anger out on the person who betrayed you. People like you make it even harder to heal. Leave WPG alone.

Amen to that, and may I add, that somethings need to be broken before they can be repaired to thier strongest possible strength. Ask any Marine who was broken down to tears before he realized he wasn't Gods gift to the service after all.

But you have been accountable for your transgressions, been open to the pain you have caused, and responsibly grown up from the breaking down of your boundaries of protection.

"Show me a man who never made a mistake, and I'll show you a man who never learned anything"
Think I should change that to "A Person" huh? Us men and our egos.

I pray for your H and his ability to recover, and I still have to give this unto Gods hands to work this out for him, because my understanding is not as important as your Hs, and Gods leading is the important factor for him.

But the same goes for you WPG, and maybe the hard way, but maybe the only way you could have, you have learned a lesson that might feel like the end of happiness, but instead be a new beggining of enlightenment of the frailty of human beings and their emotional makeup, that God has been trying to reach us all along with.

You have learned your lesson well, and payed the price of co-crucifiction by identification with sin by heading boldly to the cross instead of running away with excuses.

How brave and gloriuos you are in that courage my friend, and thank you for your help on this forum also.

Yes after all, we are only human and part of the body of Christ, never being able to take on all the Sin that engulfs this whole world and is in all of us waiting to find some reason and excuse to come out.

John 2:24-25
King James Version (KJV)


24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

_________________



Fall unto the Lord and in his arms for your covering for now, and we will continue to pray for your Hs recovery

hey, CT - I totally got what Road was saying, and it wasn't an attack on me, but an attack on people who do wrong, but don't want to be negatively labelled as such(or don't try to earn that "x" label) - whether it be a bank robber or an adulteress.

These are the people who make excuses for their behavior, and offer justifications for why they did wrong. "Well, I had a rotten childhood, so that's why I shot this guy" or whatever. Waywards who show up on the boards and give lip service to all the MB ideas/plans, but then try to blame their infidelity on their spouse.

Turning away from one's wrong behavior, making changes to yourself, truly repenting and trying to offer just compensation...well, what he's saying is that is how to truly become an ex-whatever (ex-bank robber, ex-adulteress, etc), but it doesn't equal forgiveness. My H never has to forgive me for what I did to him, and I must accept it as a consequence of my actions.


It hurts and it sucks, but I have only myself to blame, and I can't rewind to 2008 and ask to do 2009 all over again. If I could, I'd ask for a do-over it in a heartbeat.

I'll post an update soon.

**ETA - And thank you, friends...

Hello Wulf,

I've just begun to look in here again after several months off. It is amazing that alot of the familiar names here are not on here anymore, but your's is one I did recognize. I think back awhile you posted to me when I was feeling distressed. Just in a nutshell I am the guy with my wife in a nursing home.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your parent (I only read a few pages or your story). But, it seems like you are going through quite alot now. Your post about your anniversary touched me. But also what touched me is your opinion that no one deserves a second chance. Yea, human trust is sort of fagile at times. One thing that I discoverd back about five years when I was really depressed about a number of things was divine mercy. Yea, this isn't exactly MB but it became something important to me from the standpoint that I searched for and discoverd something that has really become more important now to many people. The crux for me was the divine mercy site. Whatever works for anyone I guess. Thing that impressed me is quote I read from Him that 'even tho I have to forgive you a million times I want you to come to Me.' That has truely stayed with me. Now, that does not mean you can rob a bank 999,999 times (from the road) and expect forgiveness, (my humor injected here), it simply means that you have to forgive yourself, and I don't think you ahve done that yet. I feel we sometimes cannot expect other people to forgive us and want to try again unless we really forgive ourselves.

You please take care now, and please regognize your value now.


Tom

Hey Constant,

Not meaning to tj from Wulf here, but is good to see your name as well as your comments.

Tom

Your understanding of this.... It's why you have an (F) in front of WS.....

Wulffie,


(It was not my intention that my post would bring you some
unnecessary criticism, even if only from one correspondent.)

If I remember your BIL is causing you legal problems with your wife. Your posts show your pain.

Desreves? Funny word. Does the 99% protesting deserve handouts from the gov? No get a job.

As to a second chance.

No.

Can they show they deserve one, earn one.

Nothing requires a second chance to be given.

Have you not heard of the "get out of free jail card"?

Human trust is strong. Until broken. Very difficult to repair, sometimes trust can't be repaired. Maybe because some don't have the skill and tools to repair broken trust. It's beyond their ability to do this work.

WPG has learnt to be a better person and wife here. These skills she will have for the rest of her life.

Edit to add but not build false hope, many a D couple have gotten back together years later.

Hello again Wulf,

Well I feel I need to clarify. I am one of those who do feel people do deserve second chances, and beyond. Primary reason I posted is you seemed so down on yourself when I saw you most recent. Apparently Road has a different view, maybe based on her experience. If none of us did merit fogiveness, then there would be no need for any faith beliefs, because we would be damned already for one transgression - serious or not so serious.

I am not so unrealistic tho to believe that people are so quick to forgive, or to forgive unconditionally. Whether or not your marriage is saved doesn't depend on the people here, it depends on the capacity of the two of you.

Tom

I was thinking of you and your daughters today for some reason. Still sitting here at work tonight, trying to get caught up because you never know what tomorrow might bring. I hope you're well.

(((Wulfie)))

There is nothing wrong with wanting a second chance.
There ia nothing wrong with asking for a second chance.

There is nothing wrong with being refused a second chance.

As to "Whether or not your marriage is saved doesn't depend on the people here, it depends on the capacity of the two of you." it depends on one. Proof is WPF got her stuff together and has been doing what has to be done and then some. I'm sad that she did not recover. This just shows that deserving and wanting are not always enough.

Forgiveness is an odd duck. There are parts of, degrees of, stages of, kinds of, timelines, processes, earned, unearned and many other ilks.

Appears to me some confusion between forgiveness and reconciliation is going on here. The two are not the same. Either one can exist without the other. And of course neither can exist.

Forgiveness without reconciliation is completely valid. For example, I now forgive OM � recommended him to God even. I cancelled all debt. He owes me nothing. I forgave all. But I will not under any circumstance have any kind of reconciliation or relationship with him. Similar usually exists between a rapist and victim. This might be the best most BS can do with either adulterer.

OTOH, it seems reconciliation without forgiveness is likely to be rocky and shallow. Yet, correct me if I am wrong, isn�t that a distillation of MB methods? Start the reconciliation process and forgiveness eventually arrives in some form. Or at least, if your ENs are being met, the adultery, the lies and all the most egregious offenses slowly recede in the rearview mirror to the vanishing point. In fact, one might not need to forgive the adulterers at all, ever, if MB is followed to the letter. Nowhere in MB tenets is it stated forgiveness is mandatory. You are more or less promised you will eventually just not care about it any more.

Among the several things I find interesting about forgiveness is, especially around here, an inability to forgive the adulterers is quite often labeled a worse offense than the adultery itself.

Horse manure.

Aph - cite 5 specific examples of "often".

LOL, there are about five in this thread plus V's thread alone.

A WORSE OFFENSE?
Really.
Show me.

Ok, equivalent offense.

But, there are posts labeling it a worse offense (Fundamentalist Christians?)

The first thread in which I saw this happening was several years ago with Cruisegonbad. Her BH was vilified continuously, and called much worse than an adulterer, for not being able to forgive. And this was not just adultery � it was also years of lies by the WW to facilitate adoption under false pretenses. He was not getting over it and was called worse than the adulterer. More than five times.

I can visualize many other threads in which this has occurred. It happens over and over in threads in which the collective has granted the adulterer an F.

I have been accused of it. (Which may be why this topic tends to interest me.)

I am calling you out on your hyperbole.

Why are you, the mistress of hyperbole, changing the subject?

Every time I state no adulterer no matter who and no matter what deserves neither forgiveness nor a second chance someone jumps on me and says I am as bad or worse than an adulterer.

And it is often you. Check your previous post plus three (maybe four, I�m calculating from memory) to me. You were attempting to insult me with your sarcasm. I wasn�t though. I believe what I believe.

Which brings me to the several posts over the years from you to me telling me to leave the forum.

One of these days.

Nice try.