You know, Anointed, it sounds like you're going to see incredible growth in yourself through this. I've found that MB not only promotes marital growth but major personal growth too. I've changed drastically, though there's always room to mature more. I'll be praying that your efforts produce a harvest with your husband--that's he'll be eager to start working on the details step by step.

I also struggle with motivating my husband, but perhaps you could work reading time in around things that he enjoys (like football) so that it's not sacrificing too much. If there's a couple days a week that are less busy (and not football game days), turn off the TV early and usher him into the bedroom for some quality time (maybe sex will entice him!) and then read together. If you're working on meeting his physical needs, he may be more excited about the whole reading part.

Just an idea...

Thanks maritalbliss.

Yes he was watching a football game when I asked, but it was the 2nd one of the day. He usually only watches his favorite team and rarely watches other games. The 2 games he watched were of other teams, and I felt like he was trying to avoid me. He did allow me to read to him some earlier in the afternoon, but the kids were so loud it was impossible for me to concentrate so I wanted to wait til later.

Thanks wanthealing. I've been so discouraged because I know there are things my husband is doing that hurt me. But I have no control over that. I'm extremely sensitive anyway, so the pain of things can be very overwhelming. I've gotten angry with the idea that I have to fix myself when it seems like my husband doesn't have to do anything. It's a selfish thing and normal I know.

He has caused some deep, deep wounding in me, and it would be so nice if he'd take initiative to learn about true intimacy. He asked me the other day to please "let him in." It's just not safe.

I know I haven't been safe either.

Oh, and thanks for the enticing idea. I'm pretty sure SF is a good motivator!

Okay, so it sounds like Sundays aren't the best days for reading during the football season. I totally understand.

I want to point something out to you, just for you to consider: He was watching other games, which is not atypical of football fans who have a favorite team. My H will watch other games to see who wins, so he'll know the league standings, which affects his team's standings. He also likes to talk football with his buddies, and it helps to know the strengths and weaknesses of ALL the players. It was, if I may, a little presumptuous of you to decide that he was avoiding you.

I'm not saying he wasn't, don't get me wrong. I can't read his mind - I'm just pointing out another possibility for you to consider.

And don't forget what I mentioned before: a lot of guys don't like to read and consider it a chore. He's not going to be enthusiastic if he's one of those guys. Is there another way the two of you can discuss the materials?

Hi maritalbliss!

Yes, I do realize that sometimes this is the case, but my husband rarely watches other games. He may watch for a minute or two, but not the whole game. He may have been doing that again last night. I wasn't in the room with him the whole time. He even has pointed out to me that I should be glad he is not like other husbands who become unavailable during football season. I am not a football widow, and I am grateful for that.

He did come home from lunch today and say that his favorite team IS playing tonight, so he'd like to read during lunch. I told him that it's hard to concentrate when the two year old is awake (she's VERY loud!) Later on I did thank him for trying to make time for it.

*sigh*

Jump on this opening, Anointed - instead of just thanking him, get out the calendar and see where you've got time. Schedule the time just like you would a doctor's appointment to get going on this.

I'll be watching the same game...this might not work for everyone, but here's what I do: set the game to record on DVR, wait an hour or so and then start watching it. I can fast forward over all the commentary, time outs, halftime, and video reviews. I can usually watch a ballgame in an hour or so.

Really good idea Bitbucket! We used to do that when we had a DVR, but now we only have regular TV. Husband hates it when games are on since he HAS to be home or he misses it. Thanks though!

I agree, maritalbliss. I am the usual initiator on things and this is what I would normally do. I'll see what we can work out.

One thing I've noticed about myself, Anointed, that someone on this forum pointed out to me that may be the same with you: I put too much energy into worrying about the problem that I overlook the solution. It sounds like you are very open to solutions, which is great, but make sure the ultimate goal is always in mind: building love. While reading the book is important, it's supposed to be a step toward building love, so if it's becoming a distractor from that, maybe don't make it so urgent.

For example, during the game, instead of being bummed that he didn't want to read the book, cuddle with him and turn it into a love moment. These are things I have started doing more of, and while sometimes I feel like I'm the only one changing and the only one working on our M, I'm doing it because I want to build love, so I have to keep love in mind amid all of this.

As for your husband's disrespect when you wanted to get your child to bed during your family outing, that's a big lovebuster and he needs to work on changing that. I am in the same boat as you with regards to how to motivate change in your spouse, but I hope that making baby steps will eventually change that altogether. Remember--it's a change that takes place gradually, so I suggest forgiving him for his rudeness to you and talking through how you both feel your family dynamic should be and coming to some joint agreement for future situations.

Keep faith that things will continue to get better, Anointed. Don't give up!

Wow, what a horrible afternoon you described. How awful for your kids, too. It makes me really sad to remember my kids telling me about how awful they felt when their Dad and I had loud, angry, disrespectful arguments. And then to think back to some of those arguments, remember the kids even crying. It sounds like you two are really really deep in State of Conflict, too.

How can you work on your marriage so that it's not at your kids' expense? Are you willing to decide today that those days are totally over? It takes two to simmer kids in that. It's just not right. I was here for a few years before I was willing to do whatever it took to protect my kids from the hostility. I wish I had realized up front that it's no way to raise kids.

It does not hurt you to be respectful. It does not hurt you to avoid an AO, or to make requests instead of demands. You are not going to have to die in order to avoid handing out abuse.

"Pain" is not a free-for-all ticket giving you permission to lash out at those standing nearby. "Pain" is not permission to inflict pain.

Stop giving yourself permission to mourn the loss of your self-given "right" to abuse. I think things will get easier for you when you see your AOs for what they are -- "ugly, self-serving abuse" rather than simply an "improper response to pain."

I totally agree with you NewEveryDay. It is something I hate, and I'm going to work on myself. If there is anything I'm learning during this time, it's that I need to focus on my own "stuff". Thanks for your post.

This is something I need to think on Prisca. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I need to respond with grace even when the pain is unbearable. This is not something I've been good at, and it doesn't matter if anyone else in the house is good at it either. I'm responsible for me. Not being a victim takes heart and a backbone.

I'll need to stew on your words for a bit. Thanks for your input. I need all the help I can get!

Annointed, I'm so encouraged to hear that. It may get temporarily worse before it gets better, it got way worse in my house before it got better. So I had a plan, what would I do if I was met with a Selfish Demand, Disrepsectful Judgment, and Angry Outburst. I eventually found lots of ways to prevent and de-escalate situations. For us playing soccer out back was great, it's hard to continue a fight while chasing a ball with the kids. Same with going for a walk and going for coffee. It helped me to remember I only had to juggle this for a season, while I got my ducks in a row. Then my life, my kids lives, would be peaceful, hopefully with their Dad, but if not then so be it.

OK, so be proactive and when presented with a situation where you suspect he'll say that, say it first. "I know I should have...., but I didn't and now I'm paying the price."

You know, when presented with someone who brings a lot of what appears to be preventable issues, it's sometimes a real drag to have to watch them do the same things over again, and then come complain about what happened.

So while you may want him to stop saying, "You should have..." he just might like to see you start doing some of those things so you don't bring all this drama into your lives. So consider his view of such situations, not just yours. After all, there are two in the marriage, not just you and your feelings.
OK, you say you knew his answer, so what could you have proactively said to avoid this? Could you have made a pledge to complete the project and then stick to it, no excuses? Could you validate that you know the current state of things bothers him?

You are here complaining about his DJ's, but what are you going to do about what may appear to him to be an Annoying Habit?

If this is a recurrent theme, what are you doing to address your steps in this dance? Remember DJ's are often a RESPONSE to something that bothers the spouse. You can't just stop the DJ's, you also have to work on your side of the street and start addressing the things that are annoying him.
I guess I have to ask why you can't see how he IS BEING A FRIEND by suggesting ways to avoid this in the future? He sees this bothers you. He doesn't want you to be bothered by this in the future, so he suggests a way to avoid it. In his own way, he is being a very GOOD FRIEND. You simply choose not to see it that way.

Your choice.
OK, so are you going to keep dismissing him, or will you respond with, "I understand how you may feel that way."

So you are telling him "He should be careful..."

You are sending a mixed message. He cannot say you should put the painting in a safe place, but it's OK for you to say he should be careful.

Do you see how you contradict yourself?

OK, so don't fight. Find the good in what he says, and stop doing the things to him you say bother you when he does them. It will only confuse the issue.

Guys are about action, generally speaking. So your ACTIONS will tell him what is acceptable. If you are using attitudes like he should... then guess what? He will act in a similar fashion.

Since you say he should be careful, you give him license to say you should be careful with the painting, or whatever advice he has to offer.

You always have a choice on how you respond to what he says and does. So will you choose to act in a fashion that builds your marriage, or in a fashion where you simply continue your LB behaviors and mixed messages?

Thanks for your post Enlightened_Ex. You have stated many of the things my husband says, and I still just dont understand that point of view.

When he says "you should have" I don't always agree that I "should" have been doing what he says. I or it may be that I've done what I feel is the best I can given my schedule, and his "should haves" disregard my efforts.

I am the type of person who finishes what I set my mind to. I've had a disconnect when it comes to organizing and decorating in a certain part of my home due to time, money, and honestly my husbands negative feedback to my attempts at decor. I think I'm very good at it and so do many others. In fact, I finished the bathroom last week, and my husband thought I'd done a great job (even though just a couple of weeks prior he had said that the paintings I'd picked weren't exactly "bathroom" type pictures.). I'm not sure what behaviors he thinks I can prevent since I'm a well accomplished person who does as much as reasonably possible while working from home and handling 3 busy kids. I don't feel he is understanding and reasonable in this area.

The state of a couple of rooms upstairs bothers us BOTH but he knows I have to do things slowly. He admitted later that he was just upset that the picture had been damaged, and he said he came about sharing his feelings with me in the wrong way.

I'm sorry but I don't WANT my husband suggesting to me how to avoid things in the future...at least not in a parent type role towards me. Many times I'm well aware of the problem, and I'm doing my very best to deal with it. Letting me know how to prevent things in the future says to me that he does not believe I am capable. When he comes at me from that point of view, I am not interested in his unwanted advice. If he came at me with, "honey, how would you feel if we started doing ..." or "I see you couldn't get to such and such today...is there some way I can help?". Those types of statements make me feel like we are a team and that he is a FRIEND to me. If you notice in my post, he didn't offer suggestions to help. He just informed me that procrastination had caught up with me ( we are talking a couple of weeks of painting, etc....not months) Teaching me because he feels I'm incapable is not acceptable to me.

If you notice my wording I did not say that he SHOULD be careful how he says things. I am ASKING him to be careful. To me, those are light worlds apart. I don't see how that contradicts what I'm asking him to do.

Thanks for your insight. I will think longer on your post since you seem to really understand how my hubby feels. He says I contradict myself by doing the things I ask him not to do. I have always asked alllllll these years to please be careful how he words things. This is not enough direction, I see, and we are planning to focus on reading Lovebusters this week. (we have been overwhelmed with a family wedding)

Thanks Enlightened_Ex.

I did also want to point out, not that it makes things any better, that we only had our two year old in the car with us during the angry discussion and she was actually sleeping! Ther have been many times that the older kids have witnessed stuff like this though.

If your goal is understanding, then the DJ's from you will continue. After all, I suspect he doesn't understand your point of view either. I think that contributes to the DJ's.

So instead of trying to understand his point of view, why not offer him the same thing you want, ACCEPT that he has a point of view as well.

Just as your efforts and point of view are valuable, his are too. If your goal is understanding, then I don't think you'll get very far. If your goal is to build romantic love, then it's more about how you act. I don't think you fell in love because you understood his point of view. You fell in love because you did things that built romantic love.

I'd focus more on accepting things, rather than understanding.

A concrete example, I don't need to understand why my wife turns the thermostat up to 85 when she's cold. She does it. I "know" it won't make the house warmer, and pretty soon she'll complain that it's too hot. But I accept that that is how her mind works. Perhaps she thinks it's like a throttle. But then that begs the question why she doesn't operate the oven that way.

The point is, I don't have to understand that contradiction to love her.
Practice the following phrase, "You may be right."

It's always true. It's not saying he is right, it's not saying he's not. Trying to determine "who is right" will not lead to romantic love.
My short answer is, So?

If your approach annoys him, it is an annoying habit, no matter how creative or talented you or your friends might find it. He is the one married to you and he has to live in the home as well. If your creative process destroys romantic love, then is that good for your marriage?

I'm not saying change the process, I'm suggesting that you stop justifying your process and consider the impact is has on your husband.

Just as you want him to stop saying, "You should have...." if the process annoys him, then knock it off. It doesn't matter the outcome. If you are destroying romantic love in the process is the price too high for the outcome?

Let's turn the tables. What if when your husband says, "You should have..." it was the "right" answer. But you are hurt and do not feel loved and cherished when he says that. Should he continue to say that because in the end, he was right, his way was better?

Of course not. So the same is true with your process you justify here. It doesn't matter how great you and your friends say it is if it's a LB from your husband's perspective.
So are you suggesting that knowing is the solution. OK, I'll ask you to apply your standard. You know your husband says, "You should..." therefore, since you know that's his process, you should just accept it. Yes, I sad you should.


I believe he's taking it that way. If he's saying he cannot express himself, then I think he's saying you are telling him how to speak.

But I'll play along. I didn't say you should just accept that he says, "you should" what I said was, "Things would turn out much better if you can find a way to accept that he is just he way he is."

Sure, I can rephrase the "you should" in a flowery way so it doesn't appear to be "you should." But if the underlying message is you don't think your husband is communicating with you in the right way, the conclusion he will draw is the same one I came to. You are saying he should change his approach.

So what you are saying is that if you ask long enough, a "you should" becomes acceptable. So all he has to do when you do something he finds annoying is to keep asking you to change your approach and that will make his "you should's" OK.

I'll leave you with one final insight.

I see you justifying your actions, but you are critical of his. Even saying you don't understand could be interpreted as something of a criticism. It comes across as if he's (or I) am so different that it's difficult or perhaps even unrealistic to understand what either of us are saying.

Since he's not here to either defend himself or change his behavior, it's really of little value to focus on what you perceive to be his faults.

What are you going to do?

If your response is more justification, then I will simply bow out of the conversation and let you continue down your path.

I have an idea, how about you read your post to me and highlight your DJ's. I'll give you a hint, using the words "I feel" don't change a DJ into a feeling statement. One cannot say, "I feel you don't love me" and expect that to be treated as a feeling statement. It's not, it's a DJ. It's suggesting you know more about how he loves or doesn't love than he does.

So find your own DJs. After all, if you want him to stop, you can't be flinging DJs or any other love busters at him.

You may find it more productive to entice your husband on board by demonstrating the program. What you write comes across as, "I hope Marriage Builders will fix my husband."

Instead of trying to get him to read it and buy in, which doesn't seem very fruitful so far, why not use it to address your own behaviors.

What are your love busters? What things do you do that make withdrawals from the love bank? DJs, annoying habits, what are your marital sins? What emotional needs are you not meeting for him? Have you dropped independent behavior and use the POJA to resolve issues?

If the upstairs bothers both of you, then why not use the POJA to negotiate the standard and how you will tackle the issue. I wouldn't let him in on the fact you are using a program. Just sell it as what it is, a win-win solution. It bothers you both and you believe that it's in both your best interests if you pick a solution, a means and a deadline you both enthusiastically embrace.

Instead of doing it yourself and resenting he doesn't help and instead of him resenting that it's still not done why not find a way that you both can embrace. Take what you know about him to highlight aspects that will appeal to him.

It's not about which way is better, your way or his way, it's about finding ways that engage you both and leave you both more than satisfied not only with the outcome, but with the entire process.

Sometimes you simply have to make "painting the fence" seem like the best job in the world. Sometimes you simply have to make it the best job in the world, not because it is, but because you are a great partner.

You may have to be that great partner to get him on board. I reserve the right to be wrong. However it's my belief that going first and being that great partner will be far more effective than getting him to read and get on-board.

The first method demonstrates your love for him. The second says you need to be fixed and here is what is wrong with you.

Sounds a lot like what you don't like in his approach, so why are you using a different flavor what you don't like when he does it?

Anoited, because I have a past with razor sharp disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts, I have read your posts with keen interest. I believe you are receiving a lot of excellent advice. It seems from your writing that your husband and you both grow greatly frustrated when you don't meet each other's expectations. I expect both of you know intuitively that if you get into angry outbursts infront of the kids that it is not in their best interest.
I suggest a small step... discuss the issue of disagreements in front of the kids with your husband. Try getting enthusiastic mutual agreement to not fight in front of the kids. It is a basic step and should be agreed to with enthuwsiasm. You could use a victory. Not everyohne learns the same way and your husband may not be a book learner. Arrange a physical place where you both can discuss tough issues and agree to it. Make your bedroom a safe place and never talk difficult issues there. Make it a rule not to talk difficult subjects within 3 hours of bed time. It should not be hard to just practice the policy of never making decisions without Joint Mutual Enthusiastic Agreement by starting with the above.
If your husband sees your pleased with these agreements....
He will have some victories to celebrate. He wants to make you happy or he would not be with you.
Some of your issues now are very big. Start with some small ones that are easier to conquor.
Blessings,
Me BS 56
She WW 50
Hers 18, 22
Mine 22, 28, 30
Ours DS 12
D-Day 1 - April 26 2009
D-Dapy 2 - October 15 2009
Exposed February 22, 2010
Me: Reforming Verbal Abuser (and I always will be).
She: still won't divulge OM # 2 despite overwhelming evidence, but slowly, ever so slowly, she is turning towards me. Some days I have hope and that is worth all the pain and patience.