Exactly, Trying - after one feels he or she has sacrificed so much trying to not rock the boat the feeling of entitlement sets in: the "when is it my turn to be happy" feeling. The thing is, the other spouse is probably feeling the same bay! The truth is, both parties deserve to be happy and neither should be a martyr for the sake of the family. Fix that and you fix the desire to go outside the marriage, in most cases.

I can understand how tough it must be to break the high. That's why a BS has to fire all guns to provide the motivation for the WS to do so. I think back and I know that while in the affair there were times my H saw through the fog too but couldn't break free. All of us live with our mistakes, no matter what they are. At least you are here trying to make something good from yours - that's huge! So many people want to hide in shame from the things they've done wrong in their lives. When people do that, they hold on to shame, giving it power in their lives and it gives way to depression. How much more freeing is it to learn from mistakes and turn weaknesses into strengths?! You can't rewrite the past but you CAN take back and reclaim things for yourself - for your family.

You know when your spouse is ready to take appropriate actions. You believe what they DO, not what they say. When they stop rationalizing everything they want to do or don't want to do and are just willing to do whatever it takes to make YOU feel secure.... that's when you know they are serious about recovery. Even then, you have to follow up with those actions (making them go through with it) because the actions will bring about reconciliation, not just feelings.

I've seen too many false recoveries because a wayward all of a sudden seemed repentant and the BS didn't make them follow through with the recovery plan because they thought they were in the clear now that "Joe" or "Susie" was teary-eyed and sorry. Well...Joe or Susie might be sorry and want to make a go of it. However, Joe or Susie is also probably still an addict at that point - and the actions help break the addiction.

After all the actions have been taken - No Contact Letter, transparency, EP's, etc... followed by a commitment to the plan and actually working the plan (spending the UA time together, meeting needs, etc...) THEN you can start to relax a bit and not worry about lying.

Even for a time after that you have to trust but verify.

My WH (military member): I would never risk my career and do something as stupid as contact her.

...what this really means is "I am going to tell you what you want to hear, but truth is, I AM that stupid bc I have yet to learn that you will find out about my very secret contact with OP"

Yep...he verified that he was stupid enough y'all.

Yes, Dr H says that even marriages not affected by an affair where everything seems great you should apply 'trust but verify' rather than blind trust.

People make mistakes about other things besides fidelity - money, family, gambling, drinking, overeating, porn, pyramid schemes...

The only alternative to verifying is to assume you are married to someone perfect, who never makes mistakes, never tells a 'white' lie and does everything you wish the way you wish without your input and guidance!

I want to be married to THAT guy!!!!!!


LOL


You're right... it's true! I tend to think in terms of infidelity these days but in marriage, there are plenty of other issues to maintain openness about than just cheating.

We examined a study in my Interpersonal Communications class. It's CRAZY the amount of lying that goes on in a single day. As a culture we lie about tons of things we don't even need to lie about. And it starts YOUNG...really young. We basically teach our kids to lie without even knowing it.

I will never know how my xwh could so convincingly look me in the eyes and lie his azz off. Never could I pull that one off so convincingly, and often.

Please do not ever take the word of a wayward spouse. It is like a double edged sword. Sharp, cutting, and sometimes you can get a knife in the back. They are all over the place emotionally, but the only constant, is they will yield always to whatever at the MOMENT makes them happy.

Never trust..only verify. If you have to, please hire a PI. I did and it confirmed everything, and made me lose all the BS fog we get when we just dont' WANT to believe our h or w is this vile, lying creature. It jolts reality into your brain, and also makes for great evidence should you have to divorce their lying butt.

Also, go to our board for snooping. Use every means necessary to get the truth while fighting for your marriage. My xwh was such a good liar, and such a fogged out menace, he would lie and lie and lie EVEN WHEN CONFRONTED with facts such as phone bills, receipts, photographs, video, and emails. He claimed even that the PI evidence I got, was "not him".

Like that dumb rap song from what 10 yrs ago? "It Wasn't Me" by Shaggy.

Either he was the greatest liar in the world, or else he had been cloned by aliens as he was sleeping and the aliens kept the good husband on the mothership..and left behind the crappy one I had to deal with.

I DO NOT MISS dealing with a wayward. I will NEVER deal with one ever again. It is a deal breaker for me 100 percent.

Luckily dh and I (was remarried last year) are TRUTHFUL and value fidelity. But if I am ever confronted with it again, I will NOT EVER deal with it. Three little words say what I would do again if ever confronted with a cheating spouse:
boots (as in cute cowgirl boots I have)-azz-door.

THAT about sums it up!!!!!!

I think its also important to keep in mind that aside from outright lies, lots of BSs get half truths or hidden truths.

I knew there was something wrong in my marriage when my child-crazy h told me he know longer wanted kids. No reason. Just changed his mind that's all.

My reaction to this was to say 'you're lying'. Even though I had never said those words before to the man I trusted implicitly, I knew that such a dramatic change of heart didnt 'just happen'.

So he said: 'Why would I lie? This is hard for me to say. I risk losing a lovely wife, home and life."

Because I knew (instinctively and logically) that the latter statement was true, it made me doubt my gut instinct about the lie.

After that, whenever he told me our marriage problems were due to the kids issue, (rather than the secret affair) I believed him.

Lots of waywards use something that is clearly true to cover up something you suspect is a lie.

Such as:

Its stupid to dip your pen into the company ink (true) So I would never do it! (false)

She is nowhere near as pretty and smart as you! (true) I would never look twice at someone that desperate (false)

I love you (true) so you should trust that that is enough (false)

Havent I always been honest up to now? (true) and I am just as honest still (false)

Im here because I want to be here (true) I dont want to be anywhere else (false)

and so on.................

This is the art of gaslighting..

this is TERRIFIC! Every BS should have this taped to the fridge...!

I had that thought too! I have it tucked in my handbag to read whenever I have the thought "WHY????" It answers questions I have about WH's words, choices, behaviour, etc. Once a BS can answer the question, they can continue on their journey to recovery... slowly in my case, but surely.

indiegirl,

As a wayward myself, I have to say you are correct. I remember when I had to reveal the A to my BH, I was so emotionally wrapped up myself, I said a few of those things on your list. It took time (a week or two) of feeling so guilty that I finally came completely clean about all the little details. I was so scared that if he knew the whole truth, he would leave.

You are also correct in the fact that a true repenant wayward will do WHATEVER necessary, NO QUESTIONS ASKED, to prove themselves. Actions DO speak louder than words. I now do any and everything my BH asks of me.

Also, for all of you BSs, you must know that, if your WS tells you it is your fault, it is NEVER your fault. Thankfully, I didn't do that one to my BH. Were there probably needs not being met on both sides? Probably. In my case there were. HOWEVER, it is the job of a spouse to bring these needs to the attention of the other spouse. It is NEVER ok to go outside of a marriage. I chose to do it. 100% wrong, selfish, deceitful act. MY decision. NOT my BHs. Please always remember that it is the choice of the WS, not the BS.

Make them prove themselves.

The half-truths are what got me too, Indie! So much easier to believe those than outright lies.

In my case, I recognized all the signs of an affair: H's taking more interest in his physique, the hugging the edge of the other side of the mattress at night... the new clothes...

I knew all of it added up. Yet, I still believed his lies originally because there were grains of truth in them. My biggest mistake was thinking he was not in an affair but perhaps headed for one - and I could change that course if I "straightened up" quickly enough. I didn't see that his behaviors proved he was already involved!

SunnyD,

Spot on! Wow that was totally me!!!!

Makes you want to smack yourself, doesn't it?!

My hope is that some new BS's will see themselves in this and wake up quickly to what's going on and find the motivation to implement the necessary measures needed - quickly!

Also, for all of you BSs, you must know that, if your WS tells you it is your fault, it is NEVER your fault. Thankfully, I didn't do that one to my BH. Were there probably needs not being met on both sides? Probably. In my case there were. HOWEVER, it is the job of a spouse to bring these needs to the attention of the other spouse. It is NEVER ok to go outside of a marriage. I chose to do it. 100% wrong, selfish, deceitful act. MY decision. NOT my BHs. Please always remember that it is the choice of the WS, not the BS.


I really like this, cause it is 100% true and honest. and i am a former WS, but this is the most important part and probably the part that most WS know most and most BS looking for answers cant see "Were there probably needs not being met on both sides? Probably. In my case there were. HOWEVER, it is the job of a spouse to bring these needs to the attention of the other spouse. It is NEVER ok to go outside of a marriage."



Advise to all BS Dont believe the hype

Oh yeah here is one I got just yesterday.


"I believe you need me you dont really love me. Its like you are a lost little boy who just needs something"


I am sorry but I just lost it, I replied with What the hell do i need from you?

And she said I knew you would get angry.


I have been sitting here doing the best plan A for 3 months........
I really do think I have it handled.....
Waiting for plan B,D,orC: take the kids and move to bolize (sp)
Of course plan C wouldn't be move to bolize, it would have to be Canada, Or cazakstan, or caracchi, or some other country that began with a C that didnt have extradition, I knew how to spell that one.

Berlize

Belize........

YEP, the perpetual new clothes!!!.....the new hair......the new hair color........the dull stare when asked "So why won't you answer my questions about your feelings?"
YEP!


Maybe my WW is doing me a favor by ignoring me!