Thx PrincessM for the prayer from your DH
Saw outside the clouds today for a bit

God Bless ya dudes

Ok well off for a long awaited trip to my homestate to visit my Mom, my Dad, and see my Sis on her B-day.

Mom and Dad were Div in 1974, my Dad remarried the women he was chasing, and when she died he fell apart, showed up on our doorstep, and when we moved here he found another woman that he met jogging, and moved her in the next day. Now he is a nursing home after a stroke, and she lives in his house with her kids. Funny thing that..He had a pension and outwardly owned his house which was worth quite a bit,$350K in 1989, and had about $250K in the bank when I left.

The new woman, younger than he of course, got him to quit smoking, but apparently could not control his Blood pressure, be cause besides the diagnosis of Alzhimers,(I find it strange because he allways had issues with reality), he had a stroke once the money ran out, and now he lives in a nursing home, and everything he sacrificed, all his friends and family, to own his own home, was for naught.

But he still is my Dad, and he had many strengths, and worked hard for everything he had, and its sad he is living in such a place, when he should have been insured, at least enough to live his life out in his own house, built on his families property. You would hope that a man could ensure such things with hard work, but there is no guarantee. He isolated himself from his children a long time ago, and when he came to us broken and a mess when his second wife died at home from cancer,(I just experienced that myself in 2009, so I understand the depth of it a little), we brought him into the family and assured him we did not want anything to do with his money, and all we wanted was for him to have his wishes carried out and be happy.

Nobody was ever trusted by him, so it became evident that nobody could trust him either. We tried, my Mom and Sister and I, to make him happy, work hard and obey him, and have a relationship with him, but he was just not interested. Children were to be seen and not heard, were to work for the parents, and be happy they had a place to sleep and something to eat. He had obviously suffered a great deal at the hands of others, and it was a mystery, because his parents were the salt of the earth, and his brother was so different, it was uncanny.

But to admit he might have problems, needed help, pushed himself and others beyond what was normal like a slave driver, was everyone being against him, lazy and pansies, and made him paranoid. All we ever wanted was some balance, and all I ever wanted was to please him and get the occasional pat on the back, a smile, and that he knew how important his dreams were to us also. Like I said he had problems and was toxic to be around esspecially to us when we were young.

But I do see that he is human also, and I also learned to forgive him quite a while ago, but I stopped trying to change him, and moved onto just dealing with him, and trying to make his life as happy as I could, right where he was at in his level of maturity.

Its sad that he put his house in jeapordy, because he hooked up with a woman with the reputation of a gold-digger, whithin two weeks of us moving away. We tried to get him out to church, to make some friends, but he stated that,"I attended church and sang in the choir when I was a child. What is it exactly you get out of it anyways?"
He has no friends, spent no time outside of work and as far as I know, his last enjoyment was rebuilding a car with his new son-in-law, and riding to car shows with his new wife. When I showed up two weeks later after I moved away, He brought her out and said,"look what I found jogging", then also there was the many statements about "having a blond". Both were bleached BTW and my Mom is a brunette.

Its sad that the karma bus hit him, and he affaired way down and also went from the frying pan to the fire on wife number 3. I have allways refused to pass ultimate judgement on my Dad, because I still love him for the sacrifices he made, and just consider him lost and afraid. I wish he had found some real peace in his life, and maybe I can bring him some, now that he is reduced to the place he is, and maybe seen, there is still some good in people, and family is not about money. I hope I can bring him that, and tell him stories that will make him proud. This troubled man deserves that much, and by God he certainly worked for it.

For those that believe, please pray for me

Will do, CP.

Hope the trip goes well.

Here visiting my Dad, and still marveling at how we love each other, but his ways did not help him, with freinds and family, his whole life
I always knew my dad was a man who made things change, a rebel at heart, and the type of man was not going to let life stop him from having his dream
The problem was how he went about it, alienating everyone, even the ones closest to him
Even though he got his home, because it was definatly his, and he lost so many friends on his way, he has little family or friends to help him protect it, and it was lost.
I would like to believe that his new wife really cares and respects him for how he lived his life and who he really is, but I can't because he is in a nursing home
If she could prove this to me by conversation, it would be welcomed but she is defensive and manipulating, so I will not really ever know

But I know my Dad, and I understand him because I am his Son.. What he has done with the spirit of freedom, and who he really is inside as a Man, will live on in me and my children, and God will not forget his courage and spirit, as people everywhere have benifeted from it, and only the true of heart can see it.

So to those suffering loss, and fighting the sharks in this world, take heart . Truth and light will allways win over deciet and darkness. It is what keeps the planet spinning on it's axis. It's real

Well announcing, from the AOM site, an article I have seen backed up by other scientific studys on the science of attraction on TV, and of course by the examples I have seen in the world, about keeping romance alive.

I think Dr. H has said a few words on it too.

_________________________________________________---
Love. Whether in the form of poems, moony songs, philosophical treatises, romantic notes, or angry letters, no aspect of human life has had quite so much ink spilled over it. It has since time immemorial been a driving force of life, and for just as long remained utterly mysterious, an experience that could be mused over but not truly understood.

But in the last decade, scientists have finally gotten to peer into the neurological nature of love by scanning the brains of those in the throes of it. These scans have confirmed what anyone who has fallen head over heels has experienced firsthand: love is a wild and woolly ride.

As it turns out, your brain reacts to love the same way it reacts to cocaine. So you weren�t nuts to feel addicted to your beloved nor the physical pain of withdrawal when she left you. Love lights up the reward centers of your brain and douses them in dopamine, as well as serotonin and oxytocin. These neural fireworks set off feelings of euphoria, pleasure, craving, recklessness, and obsession.

So when you�re smitten, you�re literally flying high. But the high can�t last, and it isn�t designed to. Or so it was thought.

Researchers theorized that intense romantic love was only a temporary stage designed to make mate selection more efficient, and that once this powerful force brought two people together, it inevitably mellowed into attachment or �companionate love,� a stage that develops as time passes and the couple�s lives become intertwined. As opposed to the intensity of romantic love, companionate love is marked by a happy togetherness and a comfortable stability that is designed to keep the couple together to raise their children.

And indeed, that progression from romantic to companionate love can be observed in the majority of the population. When researchers looked at the brains of those who had been together for years, the scans confirmed their theory; the regions that used to light up with romantic love had dimmed and been replaced by activity in the centers for long-term attachment and pair-bonding. Passionate, romantic love, researchers concluded, had an average shelf-life of about 12-18 months�up to four years at the absolute most.

But what about the elderly couple holding hands that your girlfriend points at and says, �Aww, I want to be like them?� The couples who claim to still be head over heels for each other even after a few decades together? Are they lying? Fooling themselves? Is it possible to thwart evolutionary destiny?

Romantic Love Can Last
In 2010, researchers conducted a study to answer those questions. They brought in 17 people who claimed to still be in love with their spouses, with whom they had been with an average of 21 years, and scanned their brains with a functional MRI machine while each participant gazed at a picture of his or her beloved.

What they found surprised them; in key ways, the participants� brains looked very similar to the brains of those who had just recently fallen in love. The important reward and motivation regions of their gray matter still lit up in the very same way.

They were not identical, however. Regions of the brain that are associated with anxiety and fear, which are active in the newly smitten, did not light up in those who had been with their partner a long time. These longer-term couples were still in love, but they were no longer afraid of losing or being separated from their partner�the fear of being dumped had passed. Instead, not only were the attachment and pair-bonding regions active, just as they were in the long-term companionate love couples, the regions associated with pleasure and pain-relief�opiate-rich sites that are also activated by primary rewards like morphine�lit up as well.

In other words, those who were still passionately in love after decades in a relationship enjoyed the intensity of romantic love, coupled with the stable attachment of companionate love, without the anxiety and obsession that accompanies new love, and with the added bonus of natural painkillers. A pretty nice state to be in, no?

Of course plenty of people are happy with just companionate love. Years with their spouse have forged a solid friendship and a comfortable groove between them.

Certainly there�s nothing wrong with companionate love; if it keeps you together and you�re happy, then great. And yet there are certainly compelling reasons to seek something beyond simply �good enough:�

Love is the grease in the gears of life. There are two central drivers of the actions we take in life: love and duty. Both are important, but love is the higher motivation and the one that makes life, and our relationships, easy and joyful.

In college I had an acquaintance I was not particularly fond of who called me late one night; he was at the airport an hour away and his ride had fallen through�could I come pick him up? I did so. But I went out the door grumbling and grumbled all the way to the airport. A few years later, when Kate and I were dating, she called me with the same request. It was even later at night. But this time I went rushing out the door and smiled the whole way. What was the difference? Duty versus love. Picking up Kate didn�t even slightly register as an inconvenience.

The sage William George Jordan puts the difference so well:

�Duty is forced, like a pump; love is spontaneous, like a fountain. Duty is prescribed and formal; it is part of the red tape of life. It means running on moral rails.

Analyze, if you will, any of the great historic instances of loyalty to duty, and whenever they ring true you will find the presence of the real element that made the act almost divine. It was duty�plus love.

Duty is a hard, mechanical process for making men do things that love would make easy. It is a poor understudy to love. It is not a high enough motive with which to inspire humanity. Duty is the body to which love is the soul. Love, in the divine alchemy of life, transmutes all duties into privileges, all responsibilities into joys.

The workman who drops his tools at the stroke of twelve, as suddenly as if he had been struck by lightning may be doing his duty�but he is doing nothing more. No man has made a great success of his life or a fit preparation for immortality by doing merely his duty. He must do that�and more. If he puts love into his work, the �more� will be easy.�

When you remain deeply in love with someone, your responsibilities and obligations to them flow naturally and spontaneously. The more love in your relationship, the more grease there is on the gears of life, and the smoother things go in all areas of it. Lose that grease, and the gears must grind it out. Many people have said that marriage is hard. But this has not been my experience at all. Marriage has been easy. Truly.

Faithfulness Boost. This is related to the above point. The more the gears dryly grind together, the greater the chance of the machine breaking down.

Prairie voles are generally monogamous and mate with a lifelong partner. When they pair off, the dopamine in their brains increases by 50%, which solidifies this bond. But when they are injected with a chemical that blocks the production of dopamine, they�ll readily dump their partner to mate with others.

Of course humans aren�t prairies voles; when love and dopamine dry up, duty stands in as a safety net to keep us together. But far better never to have to endure that temptation and test that safety net by keeping our brains soaked with the chemicals of love.

Increased confidence and strength. When you first fell in love with your girl, did you feel like there was nothing in the world you couldn�t do? Did you feel awesome about yourself and ready to take on endeavors that used to seem daunting?

There�s a reason for that. Love de-activates regions within the amygdala that are associated with fear, increasing your confidence and willingness to take risks. Love buoys you up and makes you feel ready to take on the world. Men have done many a great thing in the name of love.

How to Make Love Last
So romantic love can last forever. This can either be validating or depressing news, depending on the current state of your relationship. As Dr. Arthur Aron, co-author of the study that proved the possible longevity of romantic love put it, �This is not something long term couples want to hear. Nobody wants to hear about couples doing better than they are. We all like to believe we�re the best.�

But if the passions of your relationship have cooled, there�s no need to simply mope about it. There are things you can do to heat things back up and keep the fires of romantic love burning. Romantic love is fueled by the release of dopamine, so one of the keys to sustaining it is to keep that chemical flowing. Here are a few ways to do that, along with other tips researchers have given for keeping romantic love strong.

1. Pick the right woman. Obviously the most important factor of all! The easiest way to keep the flame burning is to start with a roaring fire, and simply tend to it rather than having to poke at a cold bed of ashes for the next 50 years. When you get hitched, make sure she�s the one.

2. Keep things going in the bedroom. Dr. Aron�s studies have shown that the frequency of sex is a big factor in keeping romantic love alive. The couples in his study who were still madly in love after two decades together had sex an average of 2.2 times a week. That�s above the national average, but still a very attainable goal for any couple.

Of course this is a bit of the chicken and egg argument; do couples who are still in love have more sex, or does having more sex make them more in love? Likely it works in tandem, with one begetting the other.

3. Be a Married Master Mind. The biggest key to lasting love, Aron has found, is how much the partners in a relationship help each other expand their sense of self. We should look for a partner that helps us �increase our store of ideas, experiences, skills, interests and resources in order to accomplish an ever evolving set of goals.� This is what we discussed in our post about becoming a Married Master Mind. This concept is incredibly important�be sure to check out that article and really think it over.

4. Idealize each other. Studies have shown that the happiest couples are those who see each other in the best possible light. This is a matter of attitude, and something you can work on changing today. Spend less time dwelling on the things she does that annoy you, and more time recognizing all the good she does, all the things you love about her. Kate and I still say to each other, �You�re perfect.� Clearly, neither of us is. But we still sometimes see each other in that generous light.

5. Keep a sense a humor. Laughing is a sure-fire way to release dopamine, and I credit it as a big part of the success of our marriage. We make each other laugh every day, and even when we fight, we have trouble sustaining a proper angry face without dissolving into fits of laughter and the realization that whatever we were fighting about was pretty dumb.

6. Keep things fresh. Enjoying new experiences together will release dopamine and bring back the butterflies you felt when you first started dating. You�ve probably experienced this when you�ve gone on vacation with your partner; you likely felt those old romantic feelings surge again. It wasn�t just because you got away from work and the kids, but because you were doing something new and different, which turned on the dopamine faucet. You don�t have to go on a cruise to get this effect though. Instead of doing the same old thing for date night, try a new restaurant, visit a museum you�ve never been to before, or find a new trail to hike.

__________________________________________

Interesting the heavy references to the brain chemicals that are natural and attached to romance of every type.

Hats off to AOM for showing romance as part of life, and not just for marriage and being with a woman. Us men should be romantic about a lot of activities, that includes the ones our wives enjoy, as part of the whole picture. Seeing our wives faces glow when we help them with projects should be just as rewarding as bagging a buck in dear season, or our favorite team winning the superbowl, (pick your specific own personel man-thing).

It goes both ways, and when she is happy for you also it also is romantic. Along with things you both enjoy equally, that should be fostered jointly.

Its a matter of choices that we both can make to enrich our own lives, while we enrich each others also, freely made, not gender specific, but balanced, that keeps our brains functioning with the right chemicals for happiness.

Getting psyched that someday I will find that woman that will enjoy some of the things I do, that are healthy and wholesome, and like those challanges also, that require physical endurment. I wonder how she will enrich my life, as I take my turn, following her lead?

Thanks for keeping her going there, CP!

Was up at Mt. Rainier with the fam for the past few days, working on the manly switch of nature.

Saw this one before I left, too.

Another thing that has left me neglecting this thread, in particular, is that a lot of my reading has been really focused on human connection, attraction, intimacy, etc, etc, etc. A lot that could be applied to being a good husband, but that's only a portion of the total picture.

Some of those things I have put on the "Gift for Recovery" thread.

In number 6 - for full forum readers (as in, you read all sections) a look at the transformation of one poster at the simple introduction of a boat into the marriage is a fine example.

This is something that Dr. Harley states in the "Together When You Are the Happiest" article, which is again backed by an article on another of my favorite sites, You Are Not So Smart, about "Misattribution of Arousal."

In the short term, exciting experiences shared with your spouse create excitement ABOUT YOUR SPOUSE.

This is why RC is an important part of UA time.

My pleasure, and at the same time it was the right place to talk about my Dad, who with all his faults was dedicated to being a man.

It was really great to see that AOM article about romance lasting. Of course here we are occupied with putting out fires so they can regrow the garden,(Geez metaphor whore I am), but it might just be the inspiration for some to say,"Hey, I know me and the missus got ripped off from all the foolish crap we did, God I want a do-over!"

I ussusally don't follow more threads than I can handle so I stick to a few that are marked as followed topics, and talk a lot on those, I try to do my best on those and don't look for new ones till they calm down. I would say every couple of weeks I look for some new ones, read the thread,(unless its a billion pages), and try to get up to speed. I think my talent is open minded thinking with perspective, and leave the hard core advice to the seasoned vets, so I rarely do more than show how the MB principles can be looked at from different angles, and they are sound. This because they are not a cookie cutter program, but I am sure some people think they are, and have trouble wrapping thier head around them. Hence my comments to open the minds.."Like a steel trap...rusted shut" Betrayal is paralizing to the emotions, and we can get pretty locked up.

So if I missed your new thread HHH, I will go look for it where I can find it also. I don't have the talent, time, or ability that some of these amazing posters have to follow all these threads in detail, or the recall either it seems. Thank God they do, there is a lot of great things happening here.

Grats on the Vacation time away.

Well, brother, know the space is here and yours (and anyone else reading who needs it).

Apparently we've behaved well enough to not have our little corner shut down, so that's a positive!

:p

Aaaaaaand, I get you on following limited threads. Me, too. And dwindling...

Why do I love AoM?

Well, because I think I have a common opinion with the author; that a lot of the media out there targeted at men is bunk.

Probably doesn't hurt that the writing is often backed by research in psychology and sociology, and he seems to subscribe to a bit of evolutionary psych.

So, this one really lit a smile on my face;


The shallow content of "men's" magazines and websites is what drew me to AoM when I stumbled upon it.

Let's face it, most of the drivel passed off on men by most of these sites and publications is not compatible with marriage, and definitely not compatible with marriage building.


Right?

It's as if manliness is "unconditional." It's part of this "it is what it is" mindset people have slid into. Unconditional identity, unconditional faith, unconditional love...

If you have it, you do. If you don't, you don't.

What a sad and destructive belief system.



I'll admit that this drive; to grow and learn, is the main force behind me neglecting this thread.

The weight behind that force is limited resources on positive male development. It is either juvenile and asinine, or pushes conformity to a feminist bent.

Uh oh... I slighted feminism.

On the surface, I have no qualms with this ideological movement; women should have control over their bodies, and equality is a right of all people.

However; equality does not equal sameness. And lack of sameness does not build a superiority/inferiority dichotomy.

In fact, I think pushing for "sameness" only creates further breeding grounds for marriage-wrecking opposite sex interactions and infidelities.

Why can't we be friends? Because I am a married man who acknowledges that I am, and will always be, attracted to women, and to interact with them on anything but the most superficial levels is a risk and insult to my marital vows.



For those who have followed this thread from the beginning, you remember the original title; "No Gurls Allowed."

It seemed like I took on the role of Spanky and tried to found the MB version of the He-Man Woman Hater's Club.

In fact, the intention of the original thread title was exactly to provoke; to provoke curiosity, reaction, and contemplation.


Can't add to that... it's perfect within itself.


http://artofmanliness.com/2011/08/10/manliness-just-doesnt-happen/

I saw this article too HHH and Liked it for the same reasons.

I have seen a lot of mens sites but this one has gotten my interest. I have never been a "Macho" type but held my ground with other men, earning even the crudest muscle heads respect, leaving me in stange situations as a young man, when I was as much of a gentlemen even when dealing with the roughest guys.

I just never liked the knuckle dragging ego centric general ideas of manliness, boyishness sure I get it, but when it comes to being a man, theres more to it that that.

But the site does not back away from the differences between men and woman, while walking that line with intelligence and sensitivity.

The author and his wife are doing an awesome job. Thanks again for introducing it HHH

Boys,

Not sure how often you check SAA, but there's a new poster ERU that may benefit from a kick in the pants from some of you, if you so choose to head over there for a sec. He's in really good hands now, but just a thought?

Carry on...:)

Me again.

Check Strike on SAA if you can/will? WW just broke NC and took kids. Not sure that you guys here choose to reach out given your own sitch, but just thought I'd send a help note for him. He did everything MB could suggest.

Should point him here to do some reading.

I will, but his WW just broke NC yesterday and took his kids, so figured maybe one of you might want to reach out. Not EVEN thinking of any obligation.

And thanks, HHH!

I'm not familiar with his story, but dropped him a line to reach out to her family if he hasn't done so already.

Hopefully, his WW's family doesn't have their heads in the sand.

NW: Thank you!!

I keep my eye on SAA, and the guys over there are too many now, sadly. I "know" you, HHH, and Reynolds don't post much, but I know you still read.

Now and then I call out to you, if you feel like responding.

If not? 100% cool.

I dont know how many men here belong to AOM, but the breakdown of the "Four Archetypes of Manhood", is a very interesting series.

Here is a link to one of them, and if you get interested you can look up the rest.

http://artofmanliness.com/2011/08/2...sculinity-the-boyhood-archetypes-part-i/

Press on men!

Ok, so where to now for me?

I have allways been family oriented, ever since I can remember, it has all been about being in a tight knit family, and being part of a team.

My kids are doing well, and I am proud of them all, and I have even re-established a relationship with my first son, from my first marriage, which is a miracle in itself, because I felt like I had failed him for so long, as I left him to his mother, and never got in the position to bring him out to see me, all the years of the second marriage.


I have lived in depression before, and it is a process. As long as you stay healthy, and keep your head up, you will come out of it with a more stable mind and learning what you should be worried about, and what is real, and what your imagination can dream up that can be lies about yourself.

But the gut stomping and intimidating reality, that I could not save my late wife from her own fears, and the years of feeling the pain that she felt, and fighting that emotional imbalance tooth and nail, has left me stranger than I ever could have imagined.

Now at a time when I was certain we would be past all the bullchit and living healthy and productive lives and enjoying our grandchildren, I am left alone, and I still love the good woman she was at one time, and the woman I knew never experianced unconditional love, from any of her family.

Knight in Shining armor? Well i was brought up on John Wayne and Clint Eastwood, and I did want to be the rock she would rely on, her place of rest. Someone who had understanding, who could take the crazy things she did, and not hold it against her, but it seems I have let it go to far, and like most strengths, is also became my weakness.

Maybe I am just mad because I lost the fight, that I could not win this one, because it really had little to do with me, or what I did, or how much I gave. Maybe it is just a reflection of my own male ego, the part that wants to be in charge, the protector, the one that wants to go "Dirty Harry" on the negative demons that attack his family.

Maybe, I just ran out of steam, as strong as I was, my kids can't understand it how I survived.

My wife used to say I had hidden potential, integrity, and I would do something great in my life. In my mind just having a full life with my wife and children, was the biggest challange and greatest thing I would ever accomplish. My IQ,EQ,are both very high, but they mean nothing compared to the safety and well being of my family.

I am not interested in having a relationship with another woman, I have nothing to prove sexually, or as a partner in life that can be counted on to pull his weight and then some, and I am not going to be in the bussiness of comforting someone who is afraid. So that leaves me out of that territory, The KISA is just to strong in me, and the KISA is a fool.

I think it is for me, just a longer and deeper process, because i labored under such foolish beliefs, for so long.

But I am still waiting on God, to pull me out of my funk, because my family needs me to be the father they allways knew agian. The one that loved life, and that no job was to small or big for him, and could do anything he put his mind to.

But to seek something just for myself? Probably my pride but I am just not interested, it has to be for all or it just is not right in my book.

Thanks for listening to my whining all

Timely, methinks...



Living "in the space between two heartbeats." How does that sum it up? Fantastic!


http://artofmanliness.com/2011/10/09/this-too-shall-pass/

"Get knocked down 7 times, get up 8." - Japanese Proverb

Yeah, I like this one also..