Celtic is right. Just say the truth and explain why adultery is immoral.

This conversation is going to be with me and one child at a time, because I believe age appropriate for 9 is different than 13. My ww will not be participating because she believe s it her right to do what makes her happy and at 39 she is not gonna wait another second.
The fear is parylizing
Thank you ITL,MB
CV you actually may b my hero.....I can see why u r grace's
Nd thank you Mel for posting, I know I try your nerves

It can be paralyzing. Deep breaths. You will probably feel like your world is going to implode. I struggled with the fear they kids would "take sides" and I would be on my own. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the kids didn't take sides. What they wanted was their parents. BOTH of them. Though Grace had a tough go of it with them for quite a while.

It's ok to talk to them separately. Wouldn't have worked with us. Our kids have been know to have sibling meetings to discuss things and surely would have had one after we exposed individually. We were able to control *how* things were being said all together. Each family is different though.

Just as an aside... Let your kids be there for you. Hug you, love on you. Don't be afraid to cry in front of them. They have a remarkable ability for care and compassion, even at 8yrs old!

CV

My 9yo has more care and compassion than most people on this earth.....she has been there more for me than maybe what is healthy for her. I feel like maybe it is too much for her.......but she seems good. It is amazing how you can see yourself in your children..... it never ceases to amaze me.
Thank you

Ok just a rant and a question???

Yesterday my kids and I got back from a long weekend.
My WW deceided to have a very foggy talk kind of questioning me... She asked if I ever felt just by looking at her if I just wanted to rip her cloths off, and ..... Well of course I responded with a resounding yes of course. She fogged back I never felt like you felt that way, and I cant think of a time when I ever felt that way about you... (B.S.)
Then we went to a volleyball game with dd9 and she continued the conversation. "Dont you think you deserve the passion??"
and I responded yes of course I do.

This carried on until this morning when she got a crink in her neck and as I was trying to message it out, her eyes rolled back in her head, and I said something like well after talking with you yesterday , at least I got to see that response once in my life, caause I obviously never caused it any other way for you.....

I was completely taken back by her response , She said that is not true, you know that is not true.


Ok my question: Sometimes she can see me as her husband, and I think She can See through the fog and I think she is still very conflicted...
Do you think if I printed anything from here she would actually read it and Is it possible to get through the fog, Or am I just waisting my time.

I was thinking of TRUEHEARTS LETTER, for those of you who have not read, I dont know how to link, but i do know how to paste



Trueheart's Letter


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you for taking the time and effort to read this letter. I am writing this in hopes that your BS has brought you here in order that you might understand you are not alone in your thoughts and feelings. It is intended to give you a measure of comfort and hope that you can feel safe as you come out the fog that has enveloped you so tightly over the past weeks, months, or years.

I do not know m any of you by name, nor do I know of all the details or circumstances surrounding your life, or your affair(s). What I do know is that we share two very important things in our lives and makes us somewhat connected as a WS. I am hoping that I can help you come back to the light, so that you can come back to the light that has, for so long, shielded you with that dense fog you may still be in.

The first thing that we share is the love of a person that totally, completely, and unconditionally stand by our side. Through thick and thin, for better or worse, in our darkest hours, we have someone that has always believed in us, and still does. They have put up with our lies, our anger, our accusations, and maybe in some cases verbal and/or physical abusiveness. They have watched us trash us the things they believed in more than anything in the world...our marriage, our vows, our trust and our love. In spite of it all, they see in us their hopes, their dreams, and their futures. They can't, nor do they want to, see themselves without us for the rest of their lives. They accept our imperfections and our infidelity as we have strayed from that which we know is wrong. They have continued to believe in us and want to help us right the ship and stay the course. They are willing to forgive us, grant us our mistakes, and come home to rebuild that life and make it better. They know they are not perfect, as well.

They know they have made mistakes. They need us to open up, talk to them and give them answers so that they can learn, heal, and help repair the damage. They will accept their responsibility in these things. Can you?

We, most of us, alsoe have children that look at us, and see only the love of a Mom or a Dad. They don't see us as imperfect, scared, or angry. They see us as a shelter, a safe haven where they can laugh, cry, hurt, be silly or serious, and tell us their fears or fantasies. We are their safety net when they fall. They look to us for answers in life, no matter how big or small the answers are. Our life changed, no matter much we didn't want it to when we helped create that life. We owe our children the best chance to learn from us. We owe them our unconditional, total, and complete love, so that they can start on the journey with as few bumps and bruises as possible. They look to you for truth in their lives. To deny them that chance, is a travesty.

You took an oath, in your heart and mind, to protect and defend and teach YOUR child, as soon as they were created. So, you see, you have people in your life that believe in you, love you, accept you, want you, need you, cherish you, and the list goes on and on.

I know for a fact, that many of you, when with the OP, badmouth your spouse. You tell the OP how they do all the right things, fill you up, make you feel alive, do all the things your spouse does not, or used to do. You tell this person they are everything you ever wanted. They arouse you, they make you happy...interesting how you told your spouse that at one time too. And, the truth is, if you were to search your heart, you are not letting them do that now. They want to, they beg you to let them try...you justify your A, by telling them "I just don't feel that for you anymore", "I don't know if I want to be married anymore", "I dont know what I want", and a myriad of other flimsy reasons and excuses to buy time to spend with the OP. You give justifications that are so superficial they can't hold water.

We even search our minds to think of everything that our spouse ever did, no matter how insignificant, how long ago it was, in order to make us feel better about cheating. We can find any reason to blame our spouse for US deciding and making a conscious choice to cheat and find a reason to say it is ok.

What we should be doing is finding every reason for our BS to forgive us. We should be finding every reason to stay together, to come home, to make it right, to be a family...loving and supportive, forgiving and trusting. And you know what? Those reasons are there...everyday...the smile, the laugh, the tears, the love....they are there each and everyday!! Just look!!!

The second thing we share is the fact that we are all weak!! I know full well the pain, anger, frustration, fear, embarrassment, passion, fun, laughter, love, fear, and all the rest of the wide range of emotions of having an A.

I know what is like to have that OP fill up your senses...so full and so fast you wonder how you ever made it without them. The sex is great, the passion is overwhelming, you can't wait to see them, touch them, hear them...all the while drifting further and further from your marriage...lost in the fog. NO matter how we justify it, that other person...is a cheater, as well. They know we are married and they choose to cheat with us. And in many cases, probably have before, and have told the other person they are with, all the same, exact things they tell us. "You are my soulmate" "you are the only one for me" etc etc. We have heard em all and said em all. We have been told they can make us happy "for the rest of our lives". WE have been so blinded by it all, that we give up family and friends we have had for years, in order for this OP to feel safe with us and convince them how we feel. We take all the energies that we don't use at home, and give them to someone "new". We spend money, time, and energy to build something with someone exciting, instead of spending that with someone that knows us and truly loves us.

You see, the truth is, that we, both members of the affair, are very good at one thing....telling each other exactly what we want to hear. We put together elaborate speeches, write poetry, find mushy cards, send the "perfect" gifts, say the right things...all for this other person. Both of us continue to hone our "cheating" skills to the point of perfection. What ever happened to doing that to your spouse, instead of leaving them at the side of the road with a flat tire? We have derailed their entire life and emotionally checked out...in order to make us feel better about the affair. That simply isn't right. We took years to build something. We may have taken several years to weaken the foundation of it. But in one simple night of lust, and that is what it is, lust, we tried to destroy it. If we truly "loved" this person, if we truly believed what we were doing is right, true, and good, there would be no indecision on our part. There would be no hesitancy at all.

The bottom line is that, you can trust the person you are cheating with less than you can trust yourself. It is a proven fact that only 25% of all affairs ever make it. Deep down in your heart, you still love your spouse, and you know it. You don't want to give up the excitement and passion you have found. The truth is that your marriage will never again go back to what it was. The blind faith in each other is gone....it is replaced with doubt and fear. The wonderful thing is that you now have a chance to "rediscover" your spouse, your marriage, and your family.

It is not as hard as you may think, but will take some dedication on your part. But the beauty of the whole thing is you will be stronger and more in love than you ever thought you could be. You create new memories, new routines, a new life. You re-commit, reinvest your time and energies in that which truly loves you.

The truth is most affairs end when the OP either gets what they thought they needed from you, and even more of them end when the OP finds another WS. Oddly enough, you weren't enough for them either. In the end you are left with no loving spouse, no children, no family, no friends.....and your OP that was so steadfastly dedicated to you is off romping with "the love of their life".

I know from whence I speak, my friends. I know of the pain, the sorrow, the hurt, the look in my childrens eyes when I left the house. I hear the sounds of my W crying, begging, pleading, and hurting. I now see what a fool I was.

I now spend everyday, more happy than I ever thought I could be. If the world were to end tomorrow, she would know I loved her as no other. No, she won't ever forget about the A, and along the way, there will be things that will trigger her mind, but, she has forgiven. You need to talk to your spouse to help them. YOU are the only one that can help them. They need you, much more now than ever before. You have to swallow that pride of yours, for them to heal. You have to open your life up to them, and hide nothing. You have to make it about them. The affair was making it about you, so now you owe it to them, no matter how embarrassed you are, no matter how much you don't wnat to talk about it, to make it about them. Their piece of mind, their feelings are all that matter.

They know, from being here, what they need to do in order to help meet your needs. It is now up to you, to learn what you need to do in order to meet theirs. And make no mistake about it, it will be hard work, but it is oh so worth it!! This person you married, is willing to work with you in order to show you the love you deserve!!

Are you willing to work to show them how much you truly love them??

By being here, at Marriage Builders, they have shown that they are willing to adopt the principles that it takes to put their marriage back together. They have pledged their love, and even their support, to your recovery, as well as theirs. They have accepted the crumbs you have offered them, while knowing full well you were at the buffet with the other person in your life.

You have one of the strongest, most committed, most wonderful, loving, and caring people in the world on your side. Don't expect them not be angry from time to time. Don't expect them to be perfect, let you off the hook, and not talk about it with you. They need and want to understand you and all the things surrounding what happened. It is part of the healing process.

What you can expect is love, honesty, and the rebuilding of your marriage.

They know what it takes to make things work now. They also know that they, as well as you, have to be stronger than ever before in their life, if this is going to work. That is why they are still here...they understand.

They even know, that you may backslide in the beginning, but are willing to deal with that, in order to preserve and protect that which they believe in ......YOU. I implore you, WS, burn off the fog. See the sand that is your foundation for the affair. There is no solid basis for this relationship..it is all smoke and mirrors that reflects this "love" you have found. Run, do not walk, back home and give your marriage all the energy, gifts, poems, cards, and love that you have given to the affair. The results are remarkable. But you have to be willing to be honest with yourself, first of all. You have to admit there is a problem, and you have to be willing to fix it, with your spouse, a counselor, whatever or whoever it takes to fix it. You have to be willing to want to be there in mind, body, and spirit. You will find a love more wonderful than anything you knew before.

I hope this helps, in some way, to show you what life can be after an affair. I know that I am blessed with the most wonderful person. I was given the opportunity to feel what life was like without her, and it was not what I wanted. I found the answers I sought...I found them both here, and in her arms. I can only hope, that in some small way, you find the same thing, and that I helped the fog to lift. If you ever wish to talk to someone who understands what we WS go through, then feel free to write *edit* There is a path back home. You need only choose it! Keep the faith!

*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This was written by long-ago poster, Trueheart.
A classic.
_________________________
LINK to Carrot/Stick of Plan A thread

LINK to Notable Posts

Deception / Hardening / Destruction

<~~~ Actual photo of a MB Plan B'er in action !!!!!

thats a lloooooooong letter..

yeah I figure if i cant say it in 10 words, it wont make it through

You can't educate a wayward.

So she has deceided that she cant be married anymore. She also puts 100% of the blame on our current situation, on my affair3.5-4 yrs ago. She takes no responsibility for the pa with the OW that she has been having for the last 3 months. vent

My question, the two attorneys and my WW and I are having our first meeting next week..

what do i expect through this whole thing??? Ok maybe that was too broad of a question.

We live in a no fault state, does that mean it should be fairly simple?? or am I just going to be a miserable ****, and should I expect the fight of my life?

No Clue

No I have not given up on my marriage but apparently she has

Ask for full legal and physical custody as a starting point.
Don't lovebust (angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, demands).

Simply state you are asking for full custody, child support and the house and half the assets.

Ask for the moon and then you have oppurtunity to settle for more later.

Be strong.

The absolutely bizarre thing is she wants me to have The house and house the kids.....but

She wants to come over after school and do homework and make dinner then go home to wherever.....

I think all she wants is cash and spousal support, and cash????

Just factually tell her that she will need to have visitations with the kids at her home on her visitation times. That once the separation occurs, you will need to have privacy to heal. Seeing her will be too painful and won't work.

reading: thanks for the reply,

Question: would It be better to go along with her fantasy thoughts and get custody and then deceide like half way through the school year that It just wasnt working out for me then tell her that she would have to see her at her house...

I would not want her to change her mind and deceide
that she wants to move the kids to wherever she wants to live

Hmmm. Maybe strategically to get full custody for now.
Perhaps you could wait to get custody just make sure the visitation instructions do not include her coming to the house as written part of the parenting plan!

Reading, Thanks again for your thoughts

Its nice to see you back Pep

GWS

how u doin ttfg?

Thank you RMX for asking, some days you just need that.
I am just getting to the point where i am numb. Not really the ups and downs anymore. I still get aggrivated, but controll it.

She is trying to go ahead with a divorce(we meet w lawyers for first time monday). I am torn between being cordial, and getting the children in my house, and or just being a miserable wolverine and dragging it to court.

She seems to be crying more and needing more hugs(which are her only show of affection, i will take it, i expect nothing). I know I some how need to plan B her at some point, but at this time she wont move out, and its only been 3 months. When she talks to me it is all fog. Dont know weather to tell her I love her. So I save it, for when I need it.

Just bummed, trying to b there for the kids. One seems to be oblivious, and the other falling apart.

Need to give up alcohol for a while!
It has been my secondary medication, and thats not good!

Thank you, thank you for talking.

Hang in there!!!

What have you done in your plan A lately? when she cries and hugs you, are you showing her compassion?

I know you've heard this before but I will say it again.

"Its unfair that YOU have to comfort HER and your the Betrayed"

But your kids are depending on you to stand up for thier family.

If she insists on talking about divorce details you tell her "I dont do divorce, I do marriage, my lawyer handles the divorce"

You need to shatter her allusion that the three of you are going to all be great friends sipping martinis after the divorce, they go home togethor and leave you with the check

aint gonna happen... she needs to know that

As far as Plan A
I am trying to (this is so queer) Look amazing and smell amazing.
I truly am and it feels pretty good.

I am trying to be there when I never was, always being a not just a father but an amazing father.

Trying to be compassionate and be there when she needs it.

There was 2 times this week where i felt like I may have handled things incorrectly, please let me know, I was trying to use the stick which i am not good at.

Sunday night she was babbling on about how all this mess was all my fault and if i had not done what I had done 3 years this wouldn't have been happening......and she started to break down and I looked right at her and calmly said I am truly sorry for what I did, I wish i could take it back, but you have to remember something this today is not my fault you are the one thats doing this now you are the one in another relationship and this, is your fault. to that she broke down more and locked herself in the bathroom.

the other time was last night when she was telling me her schedule for next week. "We have our meeting with attorneys monday, then on wed I am going to go to school and not come home, you know too much driving back and forth.(her school is 45 minutes away. Her AP has a cousins condo 20 min away.) I will not be back until thurs pm when we have practice then i willl be gone until sunday. I feel like such a bad mom.? To which I said nothing, nothing at all. I wanted her to wallow in that feeling. I want her to know that that is how its going to be.
I wanted her to feel the effects of what she was doing.

Then I went to bed.

This morining woke up happy and helpful gave her a long hug and later a kiss on the cheek, cause that is all she lets me do.
I really dont know how well my plan A is effecting her if at all.