Sunny:

Good for you! Yes, make your thoughts known in a non DJ way.

But I would wait to discuss this topic in person. It's a pretty big issue, and so much can be misconstrued in text.

Cheers,
SP

Well...uh....I thought the email was really good so I went ahead and sent it.

I promise it was positive.

A grizzled Marine sergeant was informed by his CO that Private Miller's mother had died, the sergeant was going to have to inform Miller of the sad news, and was to do so properly and with tact. At morning inspection, then, the sergeant barked out, "All right, men, those of you with living mothers take one step forward. Miller! Hold it right there!"

I'm trying to make the point that YOUR opinion as to whether sending an e-mail would "properly and with tact" inform FWH of your assessment of his performance in this area is as unimportant as the sergeant's belief of the rightness of his treatment of Pvt. Miller. Moreover, it reveals your discomfort in dealing appropriately with a topic of this kind as the sergeant's with his issue.

It may be that FWH will react well to the method. If so, I'll bet he's is the tiniest of minorities in this arena. RH, and O&H, are prescribed exactly for the difficult issues, not the easy ones.

I see your point, NG. I must add, however, that H and I have discussed this in the past - the best ways to communicate for us. For his part, he actually prefers my emails (or letters even). I may not always show it here, but I am actually a gifted writer. I know how to put my feelings on paper much more effectively than when speaking. I have negotiated family squabbles between extended family this way, in fact.

I am much more effective in being reasonable and objective in writing. For someone like my H who is very literal, I can choose words more carefully and thought out in writing. Thus, my letter to him was more positive and solution oriented than had I waited to simmer all day then talk with him tonight.

The response I got from my husband was very positive! We WILL discuss it more later, in person.

I don't have a problem talking about my feelings, but I do have a harder time not committing LBs in conversations in person than in writing. I am working on control while speaking. Right now it seems to be good for me to broach something in letter form first, then follow up later with actual discussion.

But yes - of course honesty and openness is much easier for less difficult issues!

I am majoring in Communication so it is important to me to convey what I actually wish to convey effectively!

Sunny:

Glad to see your H took the email in the spirit it was offered.

Will be interested to read how the face-to-face went.

SP

The face to face went equally as well. H started reading right after dinner. At one point S15 and I asked him to watch Community with us and he said no...he wanted to meet my needs and was going to continue reading.

Focus on actions, right? Of course, the main reason to read this stuff is to bring about further actions. It's all about change. This means changes for me too, I'm sure. I'm good with that as long as I know we are both in this together.

The way I see it, now is an especially vunerable time. We feel good about each other. I struggle with triggers and memories, but overall - things are going well. However, this is where you can be lulled into lack of motivation to keep progressing. You stop to rest and the next thing you know, slip back into old patterns.

I'm sure it is frustrating to H that I keep pushing for more...but so be it. It's not for me, it's for us: for our future. To be frank, he should be pushing for more too - esp. since he was the one so unhappy previously that he went outside the marriage.

Just to add... we are going away for the weekend when H gets off tonight.

I have to be frank: I am stressed about it even though I'm looking forward to it. I have a huge presentation next week along with all my regular classwork. I am SWAMPED. I want to focus on us having a good time, but I need time to work on my stuff as well. I don't want to be concerned about all my school stuff.

We couldn't change weekends because we're going out of town for a specific concert.

Sunny:

Excellent work on FWH's part. Glad he's seeing the light.

RE: stress of going away. Can you ask for a few hours each day of uninterrupted study time while being away? FWH could read his MB book, and you could study, then you can talk about it all when you're done with your study breaks?

Have A GREAT TIME!!!

And remember that your marriage and it's recovery is MORE IMPORTANT than any grade or presentation.

Point well taken!

Got home a few hours ago from our weekend away. It was nice. The concert we went to was awesome and we had some good recreational time together this morning before heading back.

On the way there we listened to the HNHN CD from the MB at home program. On the way back I had to study. I was NOT looking forward to coming home, lol. I swear, I wish H and I just had a whole week where we could go away.... so hard to do with his job though, and my classes. Even if we had the time off it is very rough financially. Since H does contract work he doesn't get paid when he takes off.

I will say that part of me feels disappointed. Our weekend was very low key and there is nothing wrong with that. It's just that in my mind, I want all this "high romance". You know.... the fancy dress, candles...wine...flowers....all that. We did none of that. I'm not going to blame it on H because it isn't like I told him that's what I wanted. Quite frankly, as swamped as I am I sure didn't have time to prepare for it before leaving Friday. But...I still want it even though I had no time or energy to prepare for it. I need to just appreciate what we had for what it was instead of always wistfully thinking about what could be.

BUT...I still DO want that. Every woman likes to be swept off her feet occasionally!

Sunny:

Maybe it's time to exchange descriptions of the most awesomely romantic night for each other. Then, give yourself six months to pull it off for each other? That way it's still somewhat of a surprise, but your getting what you want?

Glad you had a good weekend. Sorry you have to study! But it's for a good cause: your future.

Cheers,
SP

Good idea, SP. I mean, I feel I have told H what I want in this dept. previously, so it is frustrating to keep asking. (I didn't in terms of this past weekend, specifically, but it isn't like I have never requested this kind of thing.)

It doesn't help that I recall the lengths he went to for OW and feel I am worth not just "at least" that amount, but MORE. No one had to tell him to make THOSE arrangements...

Yes, I know it does not do to dwell on those things, but those painful thoughts creep in and cause anger and sadness.

Sunny:


I know exactly what you mean. FHW is NOT obsessed with me as he was when we first dated ... or as he was with skankho.

But when I think realistically about our marriage, I know that kind of obsession isn't sustainable, and that I need to be realistic. I HAD those times with my FWH when we were dating. Those days are over and have been replaced with a deeper, more fulfilling type of love that we have developed over the years, and obviously, through Marriage Builders.

Does that sound defeatest? I hope not. Because I firmly believe that longtime love CAN be more rewarding that the crazy times of first love.

I guess, to me, it's the marathon aspect. That race isn't always fun or pleasant, but it sure has made me strong!

But here's something: lately, I find myself doing MORE romantic little things in hopes that I'm filling his love bank higher so that he will respond in kind. Yes, he does romantic things (hugs, kisses, sweet words), but those are more immediate/easy things. Things he doesn't even have to think about. They are instinctual.

So, is it that he's not meeting my level of romance or intimacy?

I guess I don't want to be taken for granted ... ever again.

Is that how you're feeling Sunny?

I don't expect big romantic stuff to be "on" all the time. As you mention - the deeper relationship is much better than a bells and whistles here or there. HOWEVER.... I guess I want to see the effort some of the time on the "effort" things! I mean, shouldn't a former wayward WANT to do some wooing after all the hurt they caused??? Show some appreciation and gratitude for the spouse that stuck beside them even though others would've called it quits?

And YES... I think you struck a chord here, SP: I also find myself thinking my H is doing great at these instinctual things but I feel I am the one going out of my way to make sure I'm making deposits and not withdrawals. THIS is exactly why I am feeling dissatisfied despite our success. You help me put a label to it! (THANKS!) I DON'T want to be taken for granted and yet I'm thinking that between all the changes I made in myself throughout this whole process and my continued work during recovery, I am still doing more heavy lifting than H. It doesn't seem right. HE should be doing more being that he was the unfaithful one!

I guess it's about wanting to feel things are equitable. Yet, maybe they just can't be. Maybe I'm supposed to be happy with the efforts I'm getting and not worry about fairness.

As I keep stressing - MOST of me is happy. I'm not walking around acting cranky, pouting, or LBing. I'm just not sure I will shed this feeling I have that H should be doing more.

And maybe he can do more

This is where the EN lists and questioarire comes in

Everybody has emotional needs, not everybody understands theirs

They often don't want to admit them either

It sounds like your stalling on opening up these things because once seen for how valuable they are, and experienced for all they are intended to be, wild horses couldn't hold you back

Does he understand and realize what his needs are really? Or is he goin on what he is supposed to according to his opinion?

See if you guys can explore those areas passionately and discuss them.

Sunny:

Not sure it will ever be equitable. So ... what do you think Marital or Pep would say to us, carping about loving, devoted husbands who aren't meeting our needs.

Probably that we need to tell them that they aren't meeting our needs? LOL!

Sweet

Marriages do not have to become stale, that's what TV and other people say.

You can create life in them, if you try

What sunny and I are saying is that we feel like WE are creating more life in our marriages than our FWHs.

That their "efforts" don't seem to be anything other than "normal" husbandry type affection/love/romance.

Since they betrayed us, shouldn't THEY work just a smidge harder than us?

Wandered in.........exactly how I feel....sad to say that you me and Tex are all married to the same man!!

He's been a pillock, he's trying to make it right and still we want more, and always it comes down to making an effort to win us over, to show us in the way we think they showed her. (the fluffy stuff)

Look at his love language, mine is nest building!

All good points and valid observations!

The key truly is talking about this stuff.

In our circumstances I think our Takers are being a bit riled up because of all we've done to save our marriages and now we're giving so much. Now: this doesn't mean we should stop meeting needs or start LBing. This also doesn't mean our husband's aren't doing any giving. They are just doing the easy giving in our perception and not the stuff that makes us swoon.

I know it might be said that if we are filling up their love banks then they will WANT to fill ours...but in human psychology it is easy for people to take for granted what they are getting easily and readily. Our psyches are built to want a "chase" - to pursue something that appears out of our grasp.

Yet, it is important to educate on how best to quickly fill your love bank. (As Constant Process says, pursue this with a passion!) However...motivation is needed as well.

I do think, CP, that part of this is in needing to explore ENs further - and that's what we are doing. I think a year into recovery (or longer for Tanam) you need different things than when first in recovery. You also need a better understanding - both parties do - of what that means on a deeper level.

I fully admit that I have been hesitant to go out on a limb and make myself 100% vunerable again. It's hard. It might be time to do so - but it's still hard!