I hope so for her sake regardless of whether we ever get back together again.

She says she will now but that may change as time goes on. I have heard a lot of promises from her in the past that didn't last. I am much more cautious this time and I am feeling calm for the first time in 10 months.

I think she might this time but I am not sure yet what she will have to do to convince me she can come home. I just don't know right now.

I talked to her on the phone last night, she called to say goodnight to the kids, she is very upset and it was heartbreaking to listen to her. All of my instincts tell me to comfort her but I know I can't do this anymore so I just listened and told her she needs to get help and not shy away from the pain. I need to spend some time trying to understand under what conditions she could return and write a letter outlining this. Right now I am just trying to get my life back to a more stable place so I can keep focused at work and take care of my kids. I have been on a roller coaster for 10 months and right now it feels a bit steadier so I need to take some time to get my strength back. I am not sure this is the right thing to do or if I should be more pro-active right now...

She did that this last weekend before she left, I mailed it.

She smashed her cell phone this weekend, if she gets another phone I will make sure it is one we can put logging sw on.

I have all of here account information that I know of.

I was already doing this, thats why she never used her cell phone to call or text him anymore. She only called him from work (or maybe from home) over the last 2 months. I have ordered a VAR for home but that may be of no use now.

That used to be us except for when I went away on business. There has been much more nights apart in the last couple of years and I never liked it.

I think she has mostly done this now, partly a couple of months ago and now a revised version this weekend. Her motivation to tell me details and talk about it only lasted a couple of weeks last time though.

I will look into this if she comes back.

She tried to do this before but didn't like it and it was ineffective. She was still able to contact him from work. She effectively took it underground since she knew all of the ways I was keeping track of her.

This one will be extremely hard for her but I guess I will see how much she really wants the marriage.

She needs to do this for herself otherwise she will have a very sad life I think.

Yes.

I want to applaud you for being careful and cautious here. You rightly understand that her promises are empty. I will just tell you that allowing her to move home NOW, while you still live close to the OM will be a set up for disaster. She will come home, be good for a few weeks and then when you aren't looking, take back up with him. I promise you that will happen.

An alcoholic is not sorry, they are only sorry they got caught. That is where she is right now. She does not feel empathy for what she has done to you and your kids. She feels sorry that she is having to pay consequences.

I know how alcoholics think because I am one. The key will be to get her away from there BEFORE you let her come back. SEt up conditions where it would be extremely hard/impossible for her to continue to see the OM.

I would sell or rent that house and get moved away. Get your kids into a new school in a new town. While you are doing that, she can go to AA and get herself straight. And if she remains straight, she could follow you to the new town. That way, you don't have to go through this again. The only way you are going to make it is if you get her out of that town away from the OM.

And if she doesn't sober up, you are still better off because you and your kids won't have to spend the next few years bumping into the OM.


You have to continue to not allow your emotions to respond to this. You are doing just great and I would encourage you to continue to put your emotions aside and do the right thing for you and your kids. You have to protect your mental health from her and you are doing the right thing.

Keep in mind that talk is meaningless with an alcoholic; only ACTIONS count. All of her professed "sorrow" is only her sorrow at having to pay consequences.

I talked the the OP's ex-wife today. According to her he had several affairs in their marriage prior to her having one that ended the marriage. She said that he is a very scary person and completely trashed her in the community and alienated her daughter from her. When I mentioned that my wife liked him because he is calm she laughed and said he is the least calm person she knows and that she is in for a big surprise, "she has no idea". I know this is all coming from an ex-wife and a WW at that but she was quite convincing. She is willing to talk to my wife about her experience with him but I am not sure if this is a good idea. She really wanted a chance to have her daughter back in her life, she said that her daughter is really close to my wife which was a bit of a shock. It was very interesting to talk to her, I wish I had done this months ago.

Another update. My WW changed locations and is now staying with my Aunt which will be better for her since she will get some support from them even though they are my family. I know this is a bit strange but she is a mess right now and has taken the week off of work and needs some support from somebody.

I guess I am still a bit confused about what to do. I understand what ML is advocating and that is a pretty big step so I need time to think about this. I am wondering if I should be doing a full Plan B considering what is going on with her right now. I am not sure I quite understand the benefits of that in this case considering how she is reacting. Don't misunderstand me I am not about to open the doors and say come on back I am just wondering if completely shutting it right now is the right thing to do. Sorry if I am being blind to the obvious here.

At the very least I need to write a letter to her explaining the conditions under which she could return to the marriage, but this may take me some time to formulate. I am not sure exactly what it would take at this point although I certainly have lots of ideas, many of which ML is advocating.

LLL, it is good you are thinking this over, because I know it is a lot to take in. This is not going to get fixed easily, I am afraid.

The reason I suggest Plan B is because your wife will use your presence in her life to keep her wayward life propped up. And you can't go into Plan A, that is absolutely not suggested for an alcoholic because they only use it to exploit the BS. Your wife is going to have to hit rock bottom to wake up and having you out of the picture will help in that regard. She is so destructive that staying in contact with her will only harm you.

Does anyone have a Plan B letter I can use as a starting point?
Never mind I found some samples.

So I am trying to put together a letter that outlines how I feel about her, and what I need from her in order to consider trying again. I would like some advice on what to put in the addendum as far as conditions and what sort of time frame is reasonable before it is worth trying again?

I really need some advice. I gave my wife a Plan B letter last night but as I expected she is already saying the affair is over and she wants back in the relationship. The problem is, she has said this all before, how do I know anything will be different this time. Under what conditions would it be ok to have here come back. Even thinking about her coming back reduces my resolve to carry this on.

When I first asked her to leave she was really upset and promised to do everything she could to rebuild but now after a few days I get the impression she is less motivated already. She has been going to AA meetings but I am not sure how long this would last.

I have been thinking through moving and this is probably what I will do but this will take some time and we probably cant move very far away. She is willing to do this although both her and the boys don't want to. The boys are really upset about this.

I am really messed up again, I am probably going about this all wrong but how do I know when to try again and what conditions should be put in place to accept her back. How long should I wait? This is the least strong I have felt in the last 5 days since I asked her to leave and I know that is partly because I am already thinking about her coming back.

Hi there, the pros should be here soon to give you some help, but I would think you have to have the boundaries and a plan in place before she can come home.
Maybe she should work on AA before she considers anything else.
Hang in there, take your time deciding it is a big decision, don't rush so you make a mistake............
a good plan wins........

Well for starters, **IF** you were to take her back, I would lay these rules out.

1. You must be able to account for your time in 5 minute increments, and it must be provable. you have 5 minutes to respond to text messages and to answer or return a phone call and be able to verify where you are at all times

2. You may not go anywhere without me unless accompanied by someone I trust unless it is an emergency.

3. You will come 100% clean on every gory detail. failure to do so is a deal breaker and you will be gone faster than the door can close.

4. You have no web/internet privileges. period.

5. Failure to work on this marriage, disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts, blame shifting, gas lighting, etc.. Are immediate grounds for divorce.

6. You will follow MB plan for recovery without hesitation or complaint. It is a non-negotiable. failure to do so will result in divorce.


Show her you are serious. Put a line on the bottom where you can sign and date it.

If you don't think she's in 100%, don't allow her to come home. That will backfire on you.

Dr. Harley on Plan B (emphasis mine):
What are your requirements for her return to the M? Were you specific about the alcohol? I don't mean "You have to stop drinking" I mean "You will go to a treatment center to be evaluated for alcohol dependency and will enter the facility for treatment if they deem it necessary."

Also, did you say "I would like you to attend AA" or did you say "You will attend one AA meeting a day."

Did you give her specific requirements?

I have not given her specific requirements on what the recover plan would entail. I was hoping for help on that from you guys but I felt I needed to give her the letter explaining the NC. I guess that is why I am asking now, what should I include. I really don't want to go back to being anxious every day wondering when she will contact him again. I heard through the grape-vine that she was already lamenting that her NC letter to him wasn't a very nice way to end a relationship...so I am really worried again. I know I have not been doing a very good job of NC so far but that is why I am here, for some support and suggestions.

She has been to 3 AA meetings this week but I am not sure she has bought into the idea that she can't drink at all anymore. She didn't drink every day before but her drinking has increased over the last year and her ability to control her drinking in a social situation has always been a problem for her. I think this is one of the things that led to her affair. I know there are various types of alcoholism but she doesn't get drunk every day or anything but it does happen much more now then it used to maybe once or twice a month. If she goes out with her girlfriends (not doing this much lately) she is at risk of drinking much more then usual. I don't know why I am explaining all of this, ultimately she has a problem with drinking and needs to stop but I don't know that she really believes it because of the nature of her drinking.

Read HerPapaBear's EP thread. It's a comprehensive list of EPs you'll want to consider and other good info:HPB's List of EPs

But I also want you to read what Dr. Harley says about alcoholics and marital recovery so you understand the importance of having her evaluated for alcohol dependency and why your marital recovery will be difficult if she is alcoholic:
Here

The type of alcoholism she has is alcoholic alcoholism. She is an alcoholic. Most alcoholics DON'T DRINK every day. That is a stupid game that alcoholics play: "I never drank every day [or insert some other excuse] therefore I must not be an alcoholic." So, the only way this will work is if she stops drinking for life and enters a treatment program, such as AA or others.

I wouldn't suggest letting her come back until her drinking problem is fully arrested and she has demonstrated sobriety and committment to recovery. She would also have to agree to stay out of bars and to not spend her leisure time away from you.

It is ok if she doesn't believe she has a drinking problem. What she needs to BELIEVE is that she loses her marriage and her family if it doesn't stop.

And I would get your move underway. Start making plans to do that now. And make sure your kids understand why.

The way I would put this to her is this: If you want to stay married to me you have to commit to NEVER drink again, never go into a bar and attend regular AA meetings.

Then, if you demonstrate sober behavior over a period of time I will consider giving you another chance.

In the meantime, I would make plans to move and try to drag out her homecoming until you have moved. That will give her time to get some sobriety under her belt and to demonstrate her seriousness.

From some of the things you wrote above, I don't think she is very serious, though.

Is this list something that we work on together or do I present it to her. If it seems like a demand I am guessing she will resent it, maybe that just means she is not ready yet.

Thanks I read that before and I just read through it again. This just makes me even more depressed, I'm starting to wonder if I have what it takes to keep at this anymore. I am just so tired after all of this time and I know I am not even close to it being over.

Ok, thanks. She has been going to AA this last week but who knows if she will continue or even thinks it is necessary. She decided to do this on her own by the way but maybe that was just to show me she was doing something after I found out.


I'm not sure how long this takes, is this 2 weeks, a month, 3 months, more?

I have talked to the kids about it, they are really upset and don't want to move even though I have explained why. I also told my wife and I think she will move but thinks of it as and unneeded and unreasonable demand. I suggested moving to a larger city that is close by so she can continue to work at her job (in between the two towns). The kids would be in a different school district but would still be able to see their friends. I am not sure if this is a good idea but other options would be much harder on the whole family.

I worry about this all of the time. I have seen her go through various stages of this before and now I just don't know. This is another reason I am reluctant to say she can come home now. But I also worry that if it seems like I am just punishing her when she says she is willing to work at the marriage and meet all of my conditions then I will just build resentment and distance. It feels like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I suspect she is doing it to get you off her back. I would give her your condition of "never drinking for life" and staying out of bars forever. If she isn't an alcholic she will have no problem doing that. And I would demand that she attend AA for life.


3 months would be good. That would afford her plenty of time to demonstrate her sobriety and give you plenty of time to move.


I would just do it. That will get you out of that city and that is the only hope for your marriage. And if your marriage doesn't make it, then you and the kids will be away from the sight of the OM.

Can you sell or rent out your house?