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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1
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OP
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1 |
So this is how it started. My wife and I have been married five years, two small kids, we both love each other very much.
My wife has been going through some tough emotional times as her Mom was dying of cancer (she passed two weeks ago).
Back last year we met another couple with kids the same age, and developed a great "familyship." We all got on well and the kids played great with each other. During the next six months or so, my wife developed a strong bond with the other woman, nothing strange really - they became really good friends - texting, talking and so on. This developed over the course of a couple of months into what I would term exploration texts - what would you do if...How would you kiss me...Sexting...(although this was purportedly to see if the pictures were sexy enough to send me (nothing naked.) This other woman had previously had a lesbian relationship before she was married.
My wife said it took her mind off of her mom, and that it all started out innocently, she also said she felt sexier, and our actual sex life increased greatly. This was while my wife was visiting her sick mom.
When she came home she had a lunch date (she told me all later - although she lied at the time) and drove somewhere where they made out.
A week later she told me that it was just kissing it was sensual, that she had revived her sexuality with me - sex was great!
Her husband had huge problems with this and was very up and down (he also found out she had had a threesome) so he was very up and down.
I told my wife I was okay with the kissing but it could go no further. Her husband said it wasn't okay. We went out a couple of times after that (all four of us) ostensibly so her husband could see nothing was going on.
Everything seemed to be back to normal - no kissing. We were all still friends. We all went out one night and stayed round their house. The kids were with a babysitter (same house) we cam back, I went to bed with my wife, she went downstairs for a glass of water.
I woke up 3 hours later, about 430am. Anyway to cut a long story short my wife had sex with the woman while the husband watched. It was purportedly dark, he didn't see anything, my wife didn't undress, but they both "pleasured" each other. Apparently none of this was premeditated. I believe her.
I freaked out - we've talked lots since (my wife and I). I'm not leaving her and as I said we still love each other.
My wife does not consider it an affair but understands I do. She told me there are no emotional or sexual or romantic feelings anymore for the woman. She also does not find any other woman attractive - doesn't consider herself bisexual - her counsellor said it was perhaps something she just needed to get out of her system (ha).
Because the friendship of the two women is so strong - they became best friends irregardless of everything else, I said it was okay to still be friends - as long as I knew when she saw her, that they both had the kids - you know a play date or something.
I forgave my wife - I have not forgiven them - they're not bad people - I just can't do it. My wife keeps pushing me to be friends with them and forgive them, so that we can all be friends again and it can be "normal" - so the kids can play, and we have someone to hang out with - we really don't have that many friends, especially with kids.... I believe her that its not anything sexual or sensual anymore.
In the mean time my mother in law passed so my wife is devestated and depressed, we havn't talked about it in a while (the affair) - but it does irk me now that she's still friends with this woman. But, again, she helped us out recently and looked after the kids while I attended my dad's funeral (been a bad couple of months) when no-one else could, so my wife feels that this should have helped me forgive them. I don't see it that way.
Anyway - just interested in what people think. Please no obnoxious posts - don't waste your time - only interested in advice/solutions.
Thanks.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 199
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 199 |
I don't see how the sexes are relevant as to whether it's an affair or not... if she went outside the marriage for sexual fulfillment and other emotional needs, and if you consider it an affair, then it's an affair.
Would she accept your explanation for having sensual kissing with another woman if it "improved your sex life"?
Take it from me. If she had to lie about it at the time she knew it was wrong.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437 |
If she had given some guy a BJ while you were asleep in the other room, would you appreciate him looking after your kids? (not so sure she didn't do that, btw)
No contact for life, read up here on Plan A and Plan B.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Because the friendship of the two women is so strong - they became best friends irregardless of everything else, I said it was okay to still be friends - as long as I knew when she saw her, that they both had the kids - you know a play date or something.
I forgave my wife - I have not forgiven them - they're not bad people - I just can't do it. My wife keeps pushing me to be friends with them and forgive them, so that we can all be friends again and it can be "normal" - so the kids can play, and we have someone to hang out with - we really don't have that many friends, especially with kids.... I believe her that its not anything sexual or sensual anymore. Hi nodo, welcome to Marriage Builders. If you want to recover your marriage the first thing that has to happen is they have to end all contact for life. Your marriage will not survive her continued contact with her affair partner. Calling this contact "friendship" or "playdates" is cute, but it is still an affair. We have situations on this board where the marriage is headed to DIVORCE right now over a lesbian affair. They are to be treated just the same. So that is where you should start. Absolute no contact for life. She also does not find any other woman attractive - doesn't consider herself bisexual - her counsellor said it was perhaps something she just needed to get out of her system (ha). Your "counselor" is destructive to marriages and I would suggest getting rid of her. One does not have to engage in marriage wrecking behavior to "get it out of their system," that is very dangerous, destructive advise from someone who is destructive to marriages. I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the recovery program outlined in it. In the meantime, here are the steps for recovery: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place. Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I forgave my wife - I have not forgiven them - they're not bad people - I just can't do it. And you are right to not "forgive" them. They should be cut from your life completely. They are toxic people who are likely swingers. I would suggest you reconsider "forgiving" your wife since she has done nothing to warrant forgiveness. It would be better for your marriage if you withheld your forgivenss in favor of what we call just compensation: To make matters worse, whenever a wayward spouse sees me for counseling there is rarely regret and rarely a willingness to compensate the offended spouse. They usually ask to be forgiven, but that doesn't mean he or she is deeply remorseful. It usually means that he or she doesn't want us to bring up the subject anymore, or require a change in behavior. In other words, the wayward spouse wants the pain suffered by the offended spouse to be ignored or forgotten. Like a $10,000 debt, they want it forgiven, and then they want to borrow another $10,000.
I'm in favor of forgiveness in many situations, but this isn't one of them. In the case of infidelity, compensation not only helps the offended spouse overcome the resentment he or she harbors, but the right kind of compensation helps restore the relationship and prevents the painful act from being repeated.
In most cases, an offended spouse would be unwise to forgive the wayward spouse without just compensation. It's like forgiving a friend of the $10,000 he owes you, when it's actually in the friend's best interest to pay you in full because it would teach him how to be more responsible with money.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964 |
Nod,
developed a great "familyship." We all got on well and the kids played great with each other.
OMG, using kids as a cover for an affair, you realize your children can no longer play together, and to be frank I would be worried about letting your children around those two.
he also found out she had had a threesome...I told my wife I was okay with the kissing...my wife had sex with the woman while the husband watched.
You and your WW need to get tested for STDs, your WW is likely minimizing the details of what happened. Lesbian sex can also transmit STDs. There is a good chance her OWH participated.
My wife keeps pushing me to be friends with them and forgive them, so that we can all be friends again and it can be "normal".
She is still under this OWs spell, you cannot have further contact of any kind with this family.
Please no obnoxious posts.
Many here know what it feels like to have your WW in an affair right under my nose with someone who socialized with me and WW. Some might seem harsh here but they are well intended.
God Bless
Gamma
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,152
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there are no emotional or sexual or romantic feelings anymore for the woman.
(...)
Because the friendship of the two women is so strong - they became best friends irregardless of everything else,
______
This doesn't add up. She has no emotional feelings for her best friend?!
me, DH
all the children
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