EXACTLY! We feel - for better or worse, Constant, that they should be doing some of the heavy lifting here... that they should WANT to do the heavy lifting: you know, whatever it takes to make us feel great about them again. Instead, I think we are left feeling like they think our "prize" is "getting them back" and isn't that enough?!

Well, of course I wanted my husband back: not the cheater guy, but the great guy I knew was hidden there. However... HE got a HUGE prize as well: he got to COME back. He got me - and his children. He's the one that risked it all. I think SweetPea and probably Tanam too - are also feeling this. We want to see some demonstrated gratitude, darn it! And shouldn't it be natural instead of forced?

(Sunny....waiting for the smack: )

I know girls, guys don't like to admit they have been fools either, and like to be right also.

It's is our strongest suit

Listen just wanted to acknowledge what you said

No twoxfours for you, just a little low in spirits right now, but didn't want the opportunnity to go by

Maybe will have more insight tomorow

CP: I hope that today finds you in better spirits! You're always lifting others up around here so let me know if I can help.

Thank you for taking the time to provide some input. It's much appreciated.

I agree with Sunny, CP, hope you're having a better day.

Sunny. I think your last comment is the key. Demonstrated gratitude. I've been pondering this over the past couple of weeks, and feel that the BEST thing I could do to divert pain of D-Day antiversary, is to dig out HNHN and read it together with the hubby each night to get us through.

I'll let you know how that idea goes over!

and lots and lots of affection, conversation, fun things and wild sex......that should take your mind off things!!

Go buy some new toys and lingerie

Massage oils and chocolate spread

(May need some towels too!)

Enjoy the man you have not last years version.

That's what we're doing - going through HNHN. Also got the book 5 Love Languages that I've heard so much about. Maybe it'll help!

I don't have a problem with this, but I tell ya... the "romantic acts of gratitude" sure would amp up my motivation in this area!

Have these guys realized how common it is for men to screw up like this because they thinknwith the wrong head?

If they did, then maybe they would work harder for affection because they knew they had that weakness

Yep they must all ways earn thier way into your heart, and when they do, much will happen in thc bedroom

The biggest erogenos zone in a women is in her mind. Don't they know it will be a constant battle to maintain that place in thier heart?

So what they screwed up? Can't they get over it and back on the program? They found out they were human and gotta get back in the game.

Hope you guys have passionate all encompasing sex this weekend, knowing how lucky you are to have each other and posses each others body like you were made to

God bless

Ok back to posting from PC instead of iphone lol

Well yeah, I understand your point of view, about

"I think we are left feeling like they think our "prize" is "getting them back" and isn't that enough?!"

I think its really a fake-out to tell you the truth, a stand-off, a show like a cat falling off a table they are sleeping on and acting like they meant it.

Make em work for it, and show you they are sorry and that you are the one.

This is part of the recovery, and DR H suggests the men come back with hat in hand, and work hard towards reconciliation.

Its not the same with women, and men are different, (Isn't that what you guys like about us anyways?)

Maybe it is tough that you still have tender places inside that need healing, and they will have to work at earning forgivness, its not chopped liver.

Its still in the healing process, and as much as they might want it to go away, the care they take in this can strengthen the relationship. Just be aware that they might not accually realize what they have done yet, and really are single minded and result oriented, not seeing that the results are more broad in your minds, than thiers, and the same emotionally. It can dawn on them at anytime as they think and reflect on things in time.

I hope they come to you with a tear in thier eye, saying how sorry they are, and wishing they had not hurt you, as a surprise someday, as they realize it, and not to long from now either, life is too short.

I hope for that too, CP.

I think part of the issue (at least in my scenerio, not sure about SweetPea's) is that there is still some of that posturing you described with the cat/table. My H HAS shown hat in hand previously, but probably feels like, "Dang..it's been

Plus, not wanting to be the bad guy, he holds onto the fact that he got to the point of having the affair because I had my issues - so while he does feel bad about it, he's not just some jerk that cheated for sex. (His A, after all, was mostly by internet and only physical a few weekends he flew to see OW over the course of the 9 months.) So, while definitely sorry, he doesn't feel this big wave of, "What have I done?!" Oh - he IS working in recovery...but he's not of the mindset I would love to see. I can accept that because I know we are different people, and I can't force him to feel what I want him to feel.

However...I did stress to H that I expect continued work. It's necessary to facilitate change - and change is necessary because I cannot go through another marital crisis.

As for the previous post, I can look back and see where I probably made things pretty easy for him in the SF dept. and in returning in general. I wanted so much to prove that we could make it that I probably didn't make him work as hard as I've seen some others do with their returning waywards. I definitely had all the necessary requirements of the MB program though - and maybe it is a good thing that I was quickly forgiving in some ways. I have to think of the positives. Me being loving probably helped there be less withdrawal from OW, perhaps.

In the SF dept, I have always been pretty high drive myself, so I don't take a whole lot of convincing, lol. BUT... I definitely enjoy it more and it is much more fulfilling when that ole erogenous zone for women (the brain) is engaged!

SO, as it stands: H is prepared to discuss ENs and all that again. He finished 5 Love Languages this week, but really - the questionnaires and explanations in HNHN are just better to provide focus and actions rather than just theory.

H mentioned seeing the MC again - mainly in helping him with determining ENs better and communicating them in a constructive way. I don't think it would hurt but I don't think it's necessary really. It tells me that he either is afraid of us having a conflict or afraid of hurting my feelings. As I told him - part of the lesson of all of this is to GET THROUGH that, not avoid it.

I just had an epiphany while commenting on another thread. I was wondering earlier if I have been setting expectations too high. You know, being a crazy-maker because my posts seem to say that I am one of those "never satisfied" types.

You know what? That's really not it. It would be easier to come on here and talk about how great things are and such. The reality is, for my personal thread - I am here to get help: to be accountable. (For other threads, I hope to help others - as well as remind myself of important factors.)

I am GLAD that I remain somewhat unsatisfied at the moment: not because I don't want to let go of what happened, but because H and I both still have areas we need to do better in, in order for our marriage to become GREAT and not just acceptable. I believe the MB program is to propel you to greatness... and I am holding on to that goal with both fists!

I don't want to become complacent. Maybe there will be a day when it all runs like clockwork and I won't need so much help. I HOPE! lol

I just need to remember to keep looking inward and not just at H. We BOTH need to keep working the program and to go right back to it when we get off course. It DOES work!

Sounds like your doing just fine SunnyD. So fine it is really hard to tell where you begin and the marriage relationship does.

It takes time and it IS uniquely your relationship also, I don't know where someone is SUPPOSED to begin to understand the intricacies of another man and womens relationship when it is getting to that close area of intimacy.

Maybe that is just a numbskull guy thing, not that we are numbskulls, just more specific minded when it comes to our persoanel relationships. Does that make sense?

Again it takes time, and yes I love it that you are expecting progress also and attentivness to the relationship. I think you are doing and thinking in a healthy way and I pray he is also opening and expanding his mind and heart in many ways.

keep swinging

Well, I think most people - numbskull guys as well as stubborn girls are usually more focused on their own relationships. There are some exceptions, of course. The main exception is those of us who study human behavior and really want to figure out why us humans do what we do! I happen to be one of those: love psychology, philosophy, and sociology... With all the great male AND female minds we have - perhaps it is more of a personality thing, not so much gender. Having said that, in the marital relationship, when it becomes what it is supposed to be, only those two people really know exactly what's what within it. I agree!

I can honestly say that while I have to do the prompting at times, Mr. Sunny is definitely open and expanding his mind & heart. We had some very good conversations today about fulfilling each other's needs and how best to do so. There was even action on his part to show that he is making an effort!

We're not perfect at this communicating thing yet, but we have definitely made progress! I believe deposits were made in both our banks!

Thats so good to read. I wish my H was a bit more willing to talk about us, any time I bring the subject up I can feel him withdrawing, maybe feels like he's going to be hot with all the A stuff, but he just won't talk about feelings. He says it's obvious to him but does acknowledge that he forgets I need to words.

I am learning to read his love language though and he does try with his actions, far more than words, so I guess I should just be happy with that rather than moaning!!

He keeps nest building so I guess that's better than it could be.

Great to hear this, Sunny. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the encouragement, SP!

I'm trying. I feel sometimes like I have good progress and then get waylaid with other things, and things go back to "the usual". SIGH. LOL

Well, yes and no, Tanam. I think it's perfectly fine - as I said above - to have high expectations for your marriage. You're talking about reading your H's love language but here's the thing: HE needs to learn to know YOUR love language and show YOU love the way you most need it! (and vice versa) I don't think you should have to accept "what he's willing to give" alone.

That's what all my communication is about lately: "OK, Honey, I appreciate your efforts, but you're still giving me only X when I need Y...."

It's not so much about discussing "feelings" which tends to turn men off - but ways of meeting needs. When you can talk solutions instead of feelings, that is usually the best way to get through to a man. They like to fix things. BUT...sometimes they need motivation to fix things the way we need them instead of just the way they want to do so.

Appreciate his efforts - but work towards getting your love language in there as well as his.

I agree with the thought that they'd rather fix than talk about how they or we feel.

Yup, fixing things, thats what mine does, endlessly doing up the house, building things for work and he seems to feel he can fix us in the same way, by just getting on with it. Which is true but it leave few windows for expressing how I feel without getting the rolling eyes.

And then he does something like buys me a hobby horse for my birthday (I want a real one, but it was funny), he wrote me a love letter.

But he won't talk on a day to day basis about his feelings. I understand it, but it doesn't stop me getting frustrated!

I understand, Tanam. I'm married to a "non-talker" too. He WILL if he's forced too, but he doesn't like to.