If she is not having an affair I will stand on my head and whistle Dixie on the pitcher's mound at the next World Series opening game.

NO ONE takes their cell phone into the bathroom with them unless they are afraid a call will come in during those few minutes that they don't want someone else to see. That 'someone' would be you. And she's not taking it into the bathroom to keep you from seeing a text from a girlfriend who would be saying something like "Find yourself, Mrs. Hume!"

You MUST understand this! I told you this before - my FWH did the same thing, and he told me after D-Day that he took his phone into the bathroom with him because he was afraid OW would text him while he was indisposed, and I'd see the text.

You need to know if she is having an affair because then you can kill it, which will drastically improve your chances of saving your marriage. If her needs are being met by someone else, she will never give you the opportunity to do it, and therefore, she will never fall back in love with you.

Hume,

You say all the texts "checked out.". What does that mean?

Hume - a few things:

- if she has been revealing her thoughts to your daughter in the past, is it possible she is using your daughter's/son's cell/computer/etc for her own purposes? how does your WW's mother fit into this picture?

- any new "friends, hobbies, social events" she is interested in now?

- haven't you by any chance told her that you snoop and how you've done it?

- how much do you know about her days - gps or hiring a PI might help you more than you think

- does she need more cash that usual?

- the fact that things add up doesn't necessarily mean that she is clean, her actions show quite the opposite, it just might mean she is one clever wayward, more careful, more underground.

look out of the box...

I have looked at what you are saying, I have verified all the numbers she texts via our phone bill that are all people I know, all women, I have a keylogger on her puter and have used a VAR, nothing. I know there is some nefarious going on with the death grip on the phone, and the other flags. But I can't come up with anything. She is just not interested in saving the marriage, she will not engage in realtionship talk anymore, just how we will divorce. She keeps stating she just want to live her own life, be independent, set her own course, she has felt babied and taken care off(Irony that was one of her beefs that I dont make her feel protected and safe). I have seen her emails to her family and her family is urging her to lawyer up and clean me out and she is responding not saying that is all that bad of an idea. All the while negotiating in bad faith with me. See she has this delusion, she will keep the house, work partime, move me out and her lifestyle not change one whit. And in a frank email to her freind she made the statement "Men ughh I am so jaded, I think I may date around, screw the cute ones but not get too serious with anyone." I don't see any hope here guys.

Please keep in mind that an affair doesn't have to be with a member of the other sex....it can be she is having an affair with a woman....even one you know. It could also be that she is part of a "he-woman, man-haters club."

Well I doubt it, my wife was never even bi-curious, but who knows

\

You are not looking hard enough. If you want to save this, you are going to have to uncover the truth and STOP cooperating with her divorce fantasy. You are making it easy for her. She fantasizes that she will move you out and replace you with ease. You are feeding that fantasy. If you will uncover the affair you will have the leverage in the world and we can help you save this. Looking at phone #s she is texting is not going to do the trick. You need to get the actual TEXTS, GPS her car and keep the VAR in there. Hire a PI if you can.

You don't understand how sneaky women are. We can help you save your marriage if you uncover this. And when you do, don't confront her or act like you know anything. Just come here. I suspect it is a married man which would explain her super sneakiness.

I can't get the texts her phone is always on her and when she plugs it in at night, she erases all the messages. Her phone is an old school Samsung Gravity, not a smart phone so no bugging there. VAR I can try again. GPSing, she does on the road marketing and is usually all over, but I guess I would look for maybe a place she stops for 1 hour or so. I just cannnot find any tangible evidence, either she lays very low from this guy for days at a time, or she is James Bond. She is so happy it seems to be divorcing me, getting on with her life, being independent. The divorce is no fanatsy, she has a meeting with a lawyer today and is ready willing and able to end it.

The fantasy is that you will easily step aside and be cooperative so she can replace you without complaint. Where will she live? How will she support herself on a part time job? She thinks you will just hand this all over. My suggestion would be to get the goods on her and THEN be an uncooperative as possible. You can use the affair, if any, as leverage if you get the goods.

Why can't you hire a PI for a couple of days? A good PI can get everything you need very quickly.

Can you not get her texts online?

Now here you go - someway you have to get her phone and see what these messages are all about.

Well a PI is 750 a day, I researched it. We are going to do mediation. We have a meeting with an attorney tomorrow, I am sure he will sober her up about how much child\spousal support I will be paying. Worked out to about 2400 plus her 1200 month take home. She thinks she can live here in the house, even if she got the house, my mortgage alone is 1900, add in food, her health insurance, utilities, etc. and we calculated it was 4100 per month...so how does 2400+1200 >= 4100...umm it doesn�t. So she would have to sell the house, get some crappy apartment and look for fulltime work. I kind of wish if she wants really the divorce some other dope swoops in and marries her, relieves me of the burden. My kids, yikes wife is turned out to be a real flake and real eye opener these past two weeks. I cannot get those texts no way no how. See right now she is driven by the adrenalin and false sense of freedom from me, being able to be single, have the bed to herself, not listen to me complain or leave the cap off the toothpaste. If she feels the urge to merge she can always troll around for some desperate guy who likes 40 year old Moms with two kids. Nothing like jumping out of the plane not knowing if the chute is packed or not

HINT, HINT!!

This is information that could very well save your marriage. It is much cheaper than a divorce.

I appreciate your insight and concern here but she really is not interested in reconciling. Even if she was engaged in an affair, we remove that and we are still left with no interest on her part to be with me. Too many structural issues. These past three weeks I am learning abit about myself in individual therapy and going to a divorce support group. My neglect and feelings of being trapped in my marriage are the result of me feeling no romantic love for my wife. Basically my out of love condition and withdrawal metastasized to my wife the last few years. I think I am more scared of change than losing my wife, I do love her, but coming to realize more on a caring level than someone I have\had passion with. My wife made a point in one of our talks we never really had any kind of romantic relationship, I thought it was but not. We never had any walks on the beach, I never sent her any flowers, our sex was ALWAYS rough , dirty and pornographic, never loving, I fantasized about other woman 100% of the time, whether it was a waitress we had or an adult film star. We never had long kisses or embraces just for the sake of it. Rarely held hands or cuddled. I want that that kind of relationship for myself and so does my wife. Hard to admit that to myself. I am grieving my routine and safety and security more so than losing my wife.

I was very close to canceling our wedding a few times and should have read that knot in stomach for what it was.."This one is not for you". I am interested in moving on healing, spending lots of time with my kids and after I get my head, heart and soul in the right place finding someone I really do adore and desire to have a relationship with. The years of my flip flopping emotions, my AO, my overwhelming urge to cheat(Which I did not), my what you call addiction to pornography where symptoms I was NOT in love with my wife, but struggling to stay in a loveless marriage for the kids.

Why should she want to save anything when she can make you quit?

You spoke to steve. Didn't he tell you a plan to start working?

Why did you quit working the plan?

As said before WW wants out she leaves the house and kids. You stay put and tell her so. ( if needed go down to wally world, pharmacy dept, aisle three, half way down, on the left side, buy yourself a box of testosterone, their right next to the jar's of balls. Might as well as pick up a pair being your WW has already taken the one's you've had ).

Your WW is having a EA at the least. Hiding that cell phone is a huge red flag, another is she deletes every night before she sleeps, third red flag is WW don't leave the nest unless they have a replacement lined up for their BH.

As melody lane said: PI is cheaper then a D. I have read where people have found good PI's for less money. If you can post the state you are from maybe there is someone that can give you a referral for a PI that is good.

I give up!!

Hume, it seems like the only reason you are here is to get someone to tell you that you should leave your wife. No one hear can make that decision for you, only you can.

However, being afraid of change is probably good because divorce, especially when you have kids, sucks! If you could make things work with her, the next few years of your life will be exponentially happier (for you and your kids) than if you have to suffer through a divorce.

Your situation is not nearly as difficult as some of the situations that people post on marriage builders, and yet, many of those people with much more difficult situations fixed their marriages and became deeply in love and happy.

It is possible, but only if you are willing to put the work into it.

Hume, would you please give this a listen?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3324
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3325
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3326
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3327

Look I am all gung ho to fix anything. We did consultations with Steve she scoffed afterwards, would not fill out any of the questionaires, and would not talk to Steve again she said she WAS NOT INTERESTED IN COUNSELING. She was not in love, not attracted to me, and wanted to start over. She wants to move forward as quickly as possible with divorce. Could it be another guy, could be, who knows. I have been fighting mightly, spent lots of dough. Even Steve addressed one of my questions if she would not do the program...well not all marriages could be saved it takes at least a modicum of willingness of both parties. I understand what some of you are saying. Well hell you are giving away the store, she is going to live in your house, you will give her plenty of money and at the appropriate time bring Mr. X in the picture and pretend it was a brand new relationship. Well the situation is her family has money, I have seen the emails, they want her to lawyer up and clean me out, get the house anyway, and extract as much as she can in Alimony and Child support. Her Mom in an email I read with the keylogger...is "You do what you need to do XXXXX, your hubby we care less about, let him move in with his Mom". It's a [censored] situation all around. Why would I want a woman like that back, a scheming, cold snake, who says one thing to my face and behind the scenes wants me gone and erased from her life.

Why do you keep telling us this stuff? Do you think we did not already know this? We have saved far, far worse than this.

If you don't care, we understand, but don't try to convince us that a perfectly salvagable marriage is hopeless. This is not a hopeless case at all.

If you want to give up without trying, that is your prerogative. But don't act like this is hopeless. It is not!

You don't have any idea how to save a marriage so you are ASSUMING this can't be saved.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THOSE OF US WHO HAVE SAVED OUR MARRIAGES ARE NOT ASSUMING ANY SUCH THING!

PLEASE THINK THAT OVER!!