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I see ... her parents have always been controlling toward her, which probably makes her EXTRA sensitive to any control from you! And -- perfect -- you've spent the last several months setting up to become the perfect guy for her, a guy who will not control her at all.  Now you've got to take this to the next level and become even better for her: the guy who is easy to talk to about her problems and concerns and goals in life, the guy who is enjoyable to be around. She wants to talk about your son -- great! Talk about whatever she wants to talk about, if at all possible. Meet her needs on that as much as you possibly can. This is how you win her back. Become a part of the solution to her problems in life. Re: no response. Don't sweat it. Call her again, soon. Don't think about it again, and certainly don't judge her for it. Your calls are simply an invitation, which she is 100% free to decline. Re: calling Dr. Harley, so far as I know the only ways to talk to him directly are the radio show, and the online seminar/course. But there have been a lot of repeat callers to the show (at least, there were in the past -- I just got done listening to the entire run from 2006, and now moving on to 2007), and Dr. Harley and Joyce always encourage the callers to contact them again, so go for it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I see ... her parents have always been controlling toward her, which probably makes her EXTRA sensitive to any control from you! And -- perfect -- you've spent the last several months setting up to become the perfect guy for her, a guy who will not control her at all. Now you've got to take this to the next level and become even better for her: the guy who is easy to talk to about her problems and concerns and goals in life, the guy who is enjoyable to be around. She wants to talk about your son -- great! Talk about whatever she wants to talk about, if at all possible. Meet her needs on that as much as you possibly can. This is how you win her back. Become a part of the solution to her problems in life. Re: no response. Don't sweat it. Call her again, soon. Don't think about it again, and certainly don't judge her for it. Your calls are simply an invitation, which she is 100% free to decline. Re: calling Dr. Harley, so far as I know the only ways to talk to him directly are the radio show, and the online seminar/course. But there have been a lot of repeat callers to the show (at least, there were in the past -- I just got done listening to the entire run from 2006, and now moving on to 2007), and Dr. Harley and Joyce always encourage the callers to contact them again, so go for it. Thanks Markos, I have sent emails to both mbradio and joyce like i did previously. I requested a delivery receipt and read receipt but did not receive either. So i will wait on that one. When my wife talks about our son it is only when there is something wrong, like if he is sick or something. Thats it, nothing about he did this today or he did that. Other than that, there is no communication right now about him. So should i trying to initiate it? Thanks again Markos, i think it is heading in the right direction. just have to be patient.
Me 44
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Ruikee, for conversation, I would nicely probe and find out what she is interested in, what she is thinking about. Remember that you are not demanding information, and you will not let emotion cause you to express a strong emotional reaction if she declines to provide much information at first. Dr. Harley says to treat it like an interview, where your goal is to become an expert in one subject: your spouse. Reread the friends and enemies of good conversation daily until you have them internalized. They are your keys. They will mean more to you over time as you get good at this (they meant nothing to me when I started). One of them is "Using conversation to investigate, inform, and understand your spouse." In my experience, with a spouse in withdrawal, this is pretty awkward at first. There's no getting around that until you go through it for awhile establishing a track record of safety. And if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, demand that your wife participate. That makes it unsafe right off the bat. If that doesn't work, blame her for not participating and say she's causing your marriage to fail. That'll make it even less safe. And if you want more ideas for how to completely destroy it, let yourself go insane with frustration. Of course, you and I both know not to go that route. Rule of Protection before Rule of Care. Heavy on the Protection.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Ruikee, I've been pretty disturbed here to hear how people keep having trouble contacting the radio show. It sounds to me like they have some pretty heavy spam filters or something! Mails are routinely lost. I have emailed them four times, and two of them they never received (when I was on the show, I had to get my coach from Dr. Harley's seminar program to pass my message on).
I just don't know what the deal is, but my guess is your message hasn't made it and you probably don't have a response forthcoming. If I were you, I think I would click notify and ask the moderators for help passing your message along, and maybe even call the Marriage Builders office.
I wish they could figure out what to do about this. I keep telling people to email the show and then they don't get through! It's an enormous source of help.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Ruikee, for conversation, I would nicely probe and find out what she is interested in, what she is thinking about. Remember that you are not demanding information, and you will not let emotion cause you to express a strong emotional reaction if she declines to provide much information at first. Dr. Harley says to treat it like an interview, where your goal is to become an expert in one subject: your spouse. Reread the friends and enemies of good conversation daily until you have them internalized. They are your keys. They will mean more to you over time as you get good at this (they meant nothing to me when I started). One of them is "Using conversation to investigate, inform, and understand your spouse." In my experience, with a spouse in withdrawal, this is pretty awkward at first. There's no getting around that until you go through it for awhile establishing a track record of safety. And if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, demand that your wife participate. That makes it unsafe right off the bat. If that doesn't work, blame her for not participating and say she's causing your marriage to fail. That'll make it even less safe. And if you want more ideas for how to completely destroy it, let yourself go insane with frustration. Of course, you and I both know not to go that route. Rule of Protection before Rule of Care. Heavy on the Protection. Hello Markos, I did talk to her Saturday from the weekend to remember, and asked her what did i do to lose her trust and if there was anyway i could begin to rebuild that trust. . She said she doesnt think there is anything i can do to restore her trust in me. I asked what happened between the day she revealed she wanted to reconcile and now, and she said she was at a really low point and lonely and said some things she shouldnt have. She said she still wants to divorce. I said i was sorry to hear that and i am glad that she looked to me when she needed to talk. Kind of disappointing but i know God loves me. So i started asking her what bookds she was currently reading and her first response was why do you want to know that? I said i just wanbt to get to know you. So she told me and we talked a little then it became apparent that she didnt want to talk any further so i let her go.
Last edited by Ruikee; 11/21/11 05:47 PM.
Me 44
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It really sounds to me like she is on the edge between wanting to reconcile and being terrified that the things that are wrong in your marriage are not fixed.
I am betting Dr. Harley would describe this as an "approach-avoidance conflict." Have you listened to the show enough to hear him describe this?
In this case, you are making love bank deposits by talking to her in a non-threatening way. I would attempt to do so daily. More often when that becomes possible.
Every conversation you have with her that does not make her uncomfortable makes love bank deposits. And you did perfect in letting her go when the conversation became unpleasant for her. Her emotions are the guide to what is a deposit and what is a withdrawal for her -- listen to them, even if they do not make sense to you, even if you think they are cutting out the opportunity to make LB deposits.
She is lonely. Her emotional needs are going unmet. She needs a friend to talk to. She doesn't feel completely safe unburdening herself to you, yet. She will, with time, if you prove consistently to be safe.
Try to avoid the relationship discussions, like asking what it would take to restore trust, etc. You already know what it will take to restore trust: you must never be controlling and abusive again, never demanding, never disrespectful, certainly never angry. And you must be this way consistently for a very long time before she can trust you. Asking her what it would take to restore her trust leads to a possible conversation where you try to prove something to her or educate her, which of course is disrespectful.
You guys share a child, right? Talk to her about the child. Ask her how her job is going. Ask her about things at home. Just ask, but don't pry.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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So i started asking her what bookds she was currently reading and her first response was why do you want to know that? She's not reading any books, or doesn't want you to know. Call her up some time and tell her you are thinking of her. It may be a short call, or she may make it a long call. Make love bank deposits. Reread the Basic Concepts. It all comes down to the Love Bank, which really does accurately predict human behavior.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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It really sounds to me like she is on the edge between wanting to reconcile and being terrified that the things that are wrong in your marriage are not fixed.
I am betting Dr. Harley would describe this as an "approach-avoidance conflict." Have you listened to the show enough to hear him describe this?
In this case, you are making love bank deposits by talking to her in a non-threatening way. I would attempt to do so daily. More often when that becomes possible.
Every conversation you have with her that does not make her uncomfortable makes love bank deposits. And you did perfect in letting her go when the conversation became unpleasant for her. Her emotions are the guide to what is a deposit and what is a withdrawal for her -- listen to them, even if they do not make sense to you, even if you think they are cutting out the opportunity to make LB deposits.
She is lonely. Her emotional needs are going unmet. She needs a friend to talk to. She doesn't feel completely safe unburdening herself to you, yet. She will, with time, if you prove consistently to be safe.
Try to avoid the relationship discussions, like asking what it would take to restore trust, etc. You already know what it will take to restore trust: you must never be controlling and abusive again, never demanding, never disrespectful, certainly never angry. And you must be this way consistently for a very long time before she can trust you. Asking her what it would take to restore her trust leads to a possible conversation where you try to prove something to her or educate her, which of course is disrespectful.
You guys share a child, right? Talk to her about the child. Ask her how her job is going. Ask her about things at home. Just ask, but don't pry. Thanks Markos for that affirmation, after i read what i wrote, i thought about it and what you said was actually everything i was thinking, this is good for me as it shows me i am the right track. Thanks again for your help and affirmations. I will reread as suggested. I CAN and Will do this. Blessings and love.
Me 44
Wife 43
Married 10 Years
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Ruikee, I've been pretty disturbed here to hear how people keep having trouble contacting the radio show. It sounds to me like they have some pretty heavy spam filters or something! Mails are routinely lost. I have emailed them four times, and two of them they never received (when I was on the show, I had to get my coach from Dr. Harley's seminar program to pass my message on).
I just don't know what the deal is, but my guess is your message hasn't made it and you probably don't have a response forthcoming. If I were you, I think I would click notify and ask the moderators for help passing your message along, and maybe even call the Marriage Builders office.
I wish they could figure out what to do about this. I keep telling people to email the show and then they don't get through! It's an enormous source of help. Markos, The mods contacted Joyce and i am in touch with her. She wasnt aware that this is happening. I Have been invited to be on the show on Monday Thanks for the suggestion. Blessings and Love
Me 44
Wife 43
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That's good to hear, Ruikee! I will be listening for you! (I sometimes don't get to hear a show till the next day, though.)
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Listening to you right now. I was very interested in the comments Dr. Harley and Joyce had about "forgiving" your wife. One thing I've found is that if my wife says to me something about herself that would be a DJ if I say it, it's best for me not to reinforce it. (And vice versa! I sometimes speak ill of myself, then discover that I don't really like it when Prisca agrees with me. ) Hoping that Mrs. Ruikee likes the idea of writing to Joyce Harley. In the meantime, keep in mind what Dr. Harley said at the end to you: he puts more of an emphasis on the husband doing the right thing than the wife. There's a reason for that, and it's not just the fact that Willard Harley is a harsh taskmaster. 
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Listening to you right now. I was very interested in the comments Dr. Harley and Joyce had about "forgiving" your wife. One thing I've found is that if my wife says to me something about herself that would be a DJ if I say it, it's best for me not to reinforce it. (And vice versa! I sometimes speak ill of myself, then discover that I don't really like it when Prisca agrees with me. ) Hoping that Mrs. Ruikee likes the idea of writing to Joyce Harley. In the meantime, keep in mind what Dr. Harley said at the end to you: he puts more of an emphasis on the husband doing the right thing than the wife. There's a reason for that, and it's not just the fact that Willard Harley is a harsh taskmaster. Hey Markos, Thanks for listening. I agree. Do you have access to the archives? Someone posted the links to the last time i was on the show, i would like to listen again. As for asking W to talk to Joyce, do you think it should be as soon as possible or after the holidays? Blessings,
Me 44
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Good Evening Markos,
Any guidance on this?
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Ruikee, if you know that date you were on .. you can go to the archive and look through all the radio clips. Its hard to identify you in the clips only knowing your board name.
Click RADIO ARCHIVE at the top right of the navigation of any of the pages.
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If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Here's the fourth segment from that day, not sure if they made any followup comments after you were off, or not: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3411
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Thanks Markos and Nice Guy,
Well i have some bad news, i found out that the papers are on their way. Again i will not hold my breath. She may have them and just sit on them.
So, what is my next step? If they do come, do i sign them or just let the timer run out and it defaults? Is there a marriagebuilders approach at this point? I can not find anything.
Blessings and Love,
Bill
Me 44
Wife 43
Married 10 Years
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Ruikee, I am so sorry to hear that! I know that has to be a pretty emotional milestone.
As far as the legal advice I'm not really sure what you should do. As far as the emotional advice, I know Dr. Harley would tell you that you can continue to try to win your wife back, even if a divorce does go through. And I think he would tell you that you have a good chance of success.
I have this feeling that one reason you haven't gotten much traction yet is there just not being a lot of time together. Were you ever able to get out with her for coffee or lunch or anything? This kind of stuff has got to become regular before she'll ever feel different. It's not a matter of waiting for her to change her mind and commit to the marriage; it's a matter of, right now, working hard, delicately and skillfully, to construct an environment in which she will fall in love with you again.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Ruikee, I am so sorry to hear that! I know that has to be a pretty emotional milestone.
As far as the legal advice I'm not really sure what you should do. As far as the emotional advice, I know Dr. Harley would tell you that you can continue to try to win your wife back, even if a divorce does go through. And I think he would tell you that you have a good chance of success.
I have this feeling that one reason you haven't gotten much traction yet is there just not being a lot of time together. Were you ever able to get out with her for coffee or lunch or anything? This kind of stuff has got to become regular before she'll ever feel different. It's not a matter of waiting for her to change her mind and commit to the marriage; it's a matter of, right now, working hard, delicately and skillfully, to construct an environment in which she will fall in love with you again. Thanks Markos, I agree with you totally. I have asked several times to meet up for coffee, or a quick bite to eat with no success. And i think it was key that i didnt react with anger. The only time we spent together was when our S was sick. The same time she revealed her desire to reconcile. We walked across the parking lot with the baby in the middle of us. Each of us holding his hand. I had prayed for that for a long time, although i prayed for it to happen on a beach, but i am grateful that it did happen. That memory will forever be etched in my mind, and i thank God for it. She spent most of the time, telling me how great a father i was, that it was very attractive, etc. You are correct, if there was only a way to get that time together. The Harleys have told me to stay the course, and i will. I am at peace with being obedient to God. Not dating etc. And either way, i can claim victory in christ, and God will honor that. I will continue to work hard, to create that environment, and i know that begins with me. Have you ever read James Dobson's Love Must be Tough? What are your thoughts on the letter Opening the Cage Door? I appreciate all your insite and encouragement Markos. I will still be here working..... Blessings and Love,
Me 44
Wife 43
Married 10 Years
D final 4/12
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Well, something is really amiss. I found out that my wife is sending my stepson away to a prep school. Very heartbreaking that she has given up on the marriage, and now is giving up on her son.
I am really feeling led to request custody of our son. All my stepson needs is love and quality time spent with him.
I recall him asking me to take him bowling, he said i dont want to be a superstar bowler or anything, i just want you to bowl with me. I did, that was so long ago.
Again, this was suggested by her mother whom is very controlling. I have no idea what she may be telling her about our son or will tell her in the future.
Still standing
Blessings and Love
Me 44
Wife 43
Married 10 Years
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