I can feel myself getting angry and resentful. I'm tired, physically, mentally and emotionally. I'm withdrawing and I know it. And I simply don't know how to approach him. If he doesn't want to be married to me, then there's nothing I can say that is going to make a difference in how he treats me...so I guess I feel like, what's the point? After all, I am the one who broke our marriage vows. He has the "get out of jail free" card thanks to me. I still don't know why he came back. On top of him losing his job, I'd heard the stepmom was letting her house go into foreclosure...so did he come back b/c he had nowhere else to go? He pretty much does his own thing. He continues to help with the girls, throws in some DS here and there. Works out every day and went on a diet. Buys and does the things he wants with no interest in POJA. We sleep in the same bed and have SF when he initiates.

Would it be fair to say that the current situation has cause you to be a giver 90% of the time and he's the taker, with little reciprocation? How long's it been since the final dday? It's been a while. While i agree that a betrayed spouse has a get out of jail free card, it is not indefinite. An indefinite get out of jail free card can often become cruel to the other person, stringing them along with no hope. A BS, at some point, needs to poo poo or get off the pot (as my dad says in a much more colorful way).

I guess over the last year I'd built up this whole fantasy in my head, about how he would come home and things would be better, that he'd recommit to the M and would work to meet my ENs like he did before for a few short months. That we'd rekindle the romance, and fall in love again.

As far as my pattern of coping, Tough, I was talking to my brother last night. He wanted me to help him order something online, and when he was thanking me, he made some comment about me having to take care of everybody now (since Dad died). I said, Well, I guess I was raised to take care of everybody. I was the overachiever, I tried to be perfect, and I always thought if I tried harder, if I was better, people would love me more. He laughed and said Now you're taking care of your family and they would love you unconditionally anyway. I said, Not everybody loves unconditionally.

WPG,this sounds like works based salvation... If I do this and do that, I can get people to like me. People will like or dislike you regardless of what you do for them. Those that do are users.

So yes...it's a pattern with me, even pre-A. In fact, all the way back to when we were dating. I thought if I loved H enough, if I was good enough, he'd love me the way I needed to be loved. He'd take down the wall inside him and would open up to me. Unfortunately I expected him to read my mind, and "know" what I needed, and became resentful b/c he wasn't a mindreader. I tried to show love to him by giving him what I needed, b/c I had no idea what his needs were.

Have you ever considered that this might be the thing holding him back? That it may be something he recognizes (even if he cannot put is finger on it directly) that was something that led to the A to begin with? Like an associated behavior, or a contributing/underlying behavior. As a BS, the one thing I looked at were the contributing ideas/thoughts/beliefs/actions that Grace did before the A and during it. Has she changed those things, or was she changing those things? Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting in the slightest that you are not different, but what i'm suggesting is that he may be seeing something he associates with the pre-a or A state of your marriage. It may be forcing him to keep away.

Only now I feel like we do have a better grasp on each others' needs. I know I'm failing at his need for O&H b/c I am not telling him my feelings anymore. I'm afraid to open up. He doesn't meet my top 3 needs of AD, AF, and C, and I don't know how to express that to him b/c I am afraid of what his response will be. And I feel guilty for wanting my needs met b/c I am the FWW, and he's repeatedly told me he wants a D, so why should I think my needs should or will be met?

At some point, you guys are going to have to have a serious talk. A hurting or even a vindictive man can string along a person indefinitely. If he repeatedly states he wants a D, have you asked him when he's going to file?

I'm better about not having expectations in some ways but not others. I don't expect kindness or affection. But I expect the negative. I don't want to trigger his anger, b/c all the hurtful things he has said have been when he was angry. I just feel worn down, with very little fight left in me anymore.

It is not wrong for you as a fww to stand for yourself and say he cannot have AOs or DJ's towards you.

cv

He pretty much does his own thing. He continues to help with the girls, throws in some DS here and there. Works out every day and went on a diet. Buys and does the things he wants with no interest in POJA. We sleep in the same bed and have SF when he initiates.

...and he's repeatedly told me he wants a D...

I'm better about not having expectations in some ways but not others. I don't expect kindness or affection. But I expect the negative. I don't want to trigger his anger, b/c all the hurtful things he has said have been when he was angry. I just feel worn down, with very little fight left in me anymore.

@celticvoyager: While I typically agree with most of the content of your posts, this one stood out to me as directly contrary to the MarriageBuilders approach. In summary, the approach is that in absence of external factors, you are in control of how other people feel about you, based on how well you meet their needs and avoid behaviors that make them unhappy.

That's why @WPG's story has always struck me as one of those where I think there's far more underneath the surface. Not that I think @WPG needs to play needs-meeting whack-a-mole -- far from it! -- but that a careful analysis might reveal what's really going on. Early on, I'd suspected a possible revenge affair. I'm still 100% certain he's getting intimate emotional needs met some other way, but as @WPG says she's snooped, I'm uncertain whether it's an affair (although I've been out of the loop on the thread a while!). And getting those needs met "some other way" is one of the external factors that can affect how someone feels about you.

For a lot of men, masturbation to pornography can make marriage seem quite uninviting. A wife can meet and meet and meet other needs, but because his top two needs -- physical attractiveness & sexual fulfillment -- are being met elsehwere, she's not as attractive to him as his self-gratification is. It's probably the single most common reason for a disinterested husband, followed closely by affairs.

The big catch here is that @WPG did hurt him the worst possible way. But the way I figure it, either he wants to be married to her or not. There is no middle way that leads to any long-term happiness.

Ms. Wullfpack,

"At some point, you guys are going to have to have a serious talk. A hurting or even a vindictive man can string along a person indefinitely. If he repeatedly states he wants a D, have you asked him when he's going to file?"

If you haven�t been there you are not qualified to form an opinion.

Why do I have to forgive?

Or is being unable to forgive adultery worse than adultery and in some way not forgivable?

Every adulterer on the planet just has to form some quick unfocussed thought of sorry on their deathbed and God will forgive them without consequence.

If you haven�t been there you are not qualified to form an opinion.

Someone please let Dr Harley know his books, website, counseling center, and 30+ years of clinical experience are invalid because he's never experienced adultery.

Every adulterer on the planet just has to form some quick unfocussed thought of sorry on their deathbed and God will forgive them without consequence.

Do you think WPG�s BH might think a bit like I do? No consequences, no sin? Could be part of the reason he is stuck.

Have you ever wondered if the woman caught in adultery actually went and sinned no more? I hope she didn�t. But not likely based on the typical adulterer�s modus operandi.

Aphelion,

Because God commands it, and if you don�t you bring judgment upon yourself.
Matthew 6:14-16 - �For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.�
Un-forgiveness in and of itself I don�t believe is a sin, but in withholding forgiveness you become accountable for all of your sins. Not that it matters but sin is sin (none better or worse than adultery), and is punishable by death.
For God to forgive, true repentance is required, a fully changed heart. Only God knows if this occurs. A quick unfocussed thought on the death bed is probably guilt or fear, not a changed heart (but we can�t know for sure).