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I felt he had been inconsiderate, and was behaving independently. He felt he was just hungry. I'm not sure that getting burgers would classify as independent behavior. Though I can see how you would feel that because you'd raised the issue and it hadn't been resolved, how you were thinking one thing, and he another. He said we could still do that. I thought, "Why would we do that when you just ate 2 cheeseburgers?!" AND...because I was aggravated, and my feelings were hurt, I think that your feelings were hurt by something else, not the act of buying burgers. You get there further down in your post. ... And by killing the plans to have drinks/apps, I think you were trying to punish him for not doing what you wanted. I am guilty of doing that myself. Then he raised his voice and yelled at me. Well, I started to cry. Then, he commented that I wasn't allowed to cry. That made me cry more...and made me mad. You can see where this is going: nowhere good. Huge lovebusters there. Everyone's allowed to cry, for cryin' out loud! He finally told me that it made him crazy when I am negative and shoot down every solution he comes up with - and he was sorry for yelling. I could understand that. I apologized for being negative and that I should have just spelled out what I was feeling from the get-go. So, in a way, I was being unreasonable. I sure wish he would have been able to phrase his need for validation (his ideas/suggestions that get dismissed) more positively, instead of making it a criticism about you. Could he have said: Hey, it hurts me to rarely have an idea that gets a nod of approval. Or if feels that way. Next time, can you agree to something I suggest? I'm glad he apologized for yelling. And ... how are you going to meet this criticism? How will you not shoot down his ideas? OR is this hyperbole in the heat of the moment, meaning you DO take his suggestions as equally as your own? Yet, I didn't like that he is so geared to finding my faults that he does not look at himself and his own faults. It wasn't like he behaved appropriately in the whole matter. Hmmmm. Next time, maybe you should both reflect what each of you two could have done better, rather than tell each other what the other one did to piss each other off. Less lovebusting and more proactive in avoiding fights in the future. So...it was all very stupid and very high school-ish. Yet, it is rare that this kind of thing happens. Aren't all fights like this usually?  Thinking on it now, I believe I know why I was so triggered so easily. Our friend who is in town treats his wife like she is a princess. He puts her on a pedestal - and I would LOVE to be treated that way. She wasn't even with him this trip but even the way he talks to her on the phone makes me envious. I would love to feel cherished like that... It made IB cheeseburgers seem like a slap in the face when I know they weren't meant to be. Friend would never go get cheeseburgers, knowing his wife was hungry too and that they had discussed plans to eat... Aha! You've hit the nail on the proverbial head. You want to be cherished and you don't feel like it when you're fighting (and hungry to boot). So, now that you are out of the rational moments, take time to think about how your H cherishes you. Write a list. Is it long enough? Does it hit on your most important needs? If it doesn't, that's why you're feeling blue about it. If in this rational moment, you think the list is solid, well then you ARE solid! I know my H has a different type of personality than friend does. I would never be attracted to someone like friend, more than likely... "more than likely" ... that's a bit of a red flag to me, Sunny. Reads to me that you are somewhat "open" to being attracted to men other than your husband? I find that hard to believe and hope I am reading that phrase wrong. But the way you phrased it kinda panicked me a smidge. My H has a different way of talking - of showing care - of being romantic... yet, instead of accepting that, I want it how I want it, when I want it, the way I want it. While I don't think that's a bad thing, it is a thing. But you fell in love with him, right? And if he's anything like my FWH, he hasn't changed all that much in the way he romances. So what did he do then -- that he's probably doing now -- that you simply couldn't get enough of? Or does he not do those things anymore? I struggle: am I being too demanding, or is H just not "getting" what I want? Then worse thoughts come to mind, "Maybe he purposefully doesn't give me want I want, the way I want it." OR...even worse....maybe I am not 'good enough' to have what I think I deserve, at least in his eyes. I don't inspire him to "cherish" me, perhaps. Thus, my feelings vacillate between self doubt, anger, sadness, and self-pity. From all you've written about your H, I don't think he's so complex as to double-fake you out and not give you what you want because he wants to somehow punish you. I think it gets back to knowing what each other needs and how to hit those sweet spots. And, he needs to be retrained to hit your sweet spots so that you, in turn, make him go ga-ga and want to make you supremely happy. Obviously we still have a lot of work to do in the "meeting needs" department. Join the club, sister! The argument ended well in terms of having a good discussion. I told him he can't tell me I am "not allowed" to cry and he should care more about my feelings than being right at that moment. I agreed I need to be more reasonable and open-minded instead of so emotionally charged. We made up while we waited for friend. BUT....we sure wasted a couple of hours on nothing! Some of it came down to bad communication. H thought our discussion over things was over. I didn't. (It was interrupted by S17's phone call.) It also didn't help that H did not tell me at the beginning that he got me a cheeseburger too, if I wanted it, in case I was hungry. He only mentioned getting burgers for himself. So, he was thinking of you and your hunger, just not in the "drinks/apps" kinda way. More in a CAVEMAN-MUST-EAT-AND-MAKE-WIFE-HAPPY-WAY? I honestly don't know why I was so attitudnal about not wanting to go to a restaurant (for drinks/appetizers) after he'd just gotten the burgers. He said we could still do that. I feel funny about eating alone with someone else "watching" for one thing. I don't know why. For another, it was just the thought of us being not in sync.... of not working together... no POJA going on... it just felt wrong. I addressed this above. Let me know if you think I'm right ... But, ultimately, it sounds like you ended it well. So my question is: Did you grind through it enough to help you in the future? Cheers, SP
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Sunny: This is soooo crazy. Am editing a story and this quote was in it from James Joyce's "The Dead." I thought it quite fitting for your argument with H! �When we are hungry, we are all very quarrelsome,� remarks one of the guests.
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Sunny: This is soooo crazy. Am editing a story and this quote was in it from James Joyce's "The Dead." I thought it quite fitting for your argument with H! �When we are hungry, we are all very quarrelsome,� remarks one of the guests. LOL...Too funny!!! I will respond in a bit to everything you wrote (all GREAT stuff!) but need to respond to an email from H first. I calmed down after I wrote my last post about finding the worksheets and wanted to write a quick update. I DON'T think that H thinks he is perfect and has no fault. I feel he knows his intent and he thinks it is perfectly clear, when it isn't always. Thus, because he knows HIS side, he doesn't understand when he gets negative response and then he feels he needs to attack. It's my job to communicate better. Well, his too. But much of our issues just need better communication. Anyway, to touch on one "alarming" thing from your post, SP: NO, I'm not open to being attracted to other men!  I was thinking in psychological terms. You know, we tend to be attracted to a "type" and I've never been attracted to the Friend's "type" and therefore, I must (inwardly) be attracted to the type of man H is for a reason - that I need him to be who he is more than I need him to be a flowery romantic. Does that make sense? Anyway, will hit on everything else momentarily. THanks!
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[/color][/b]MY Replies...in RED. I felt it easiest to respond that way. I have no idea why it shows the color brackets though. ??? [color:#FF0000] [b]I felt he had been inconsiderate, and was behaving independently. He felt he was just hungry. I'm not sure that getting burgers would classify as independent behavior. Though I can see how you would feel that because you'd raised the issue and it hadn't been resolved, how you were thinking one thing, and he another. [/color] Not coming up with a POJA on our plans and going ahead and getting the burgers when I had indicated I wanted to do something else felt like an IB at the time. [color:#FF0000]He said we could still do that. I thought, "Why would we do that when you just ate 2 cheeseburgers?!" AND...because I was aggravated, and my feelings were hurt, I think that your feelings were hurt by something else, not the act of buying burgers. You get there further down in your post. ... And by killing the plans to have drinks/apps, I think you were trying to punish him for not doing what you wanted. I am guilty of doing that myself. [/color]Yep: my feelings were hurt so I was being stubborn. I didn't think of it in terms of punishing him, but I suppose you're right! [color:#FF0000]Then he raised his voice and yelled at me. Well, I started to cry. Then, he commented that I wasn't allowed to cry. That made me cry more...and made me mad. You can see where this is going: nowhere good. Huge lovebusters there. Everyone's allowed to cry, for cryin' out loud! [/color]That's what I thought. He says you don't have that right when you're the one that is the cause for the need for tears in the first place. In his opinion, I'm the one that committed the crime by being angry to start off with. I told him how I felt about it. [color:#FF0000]He finally told me that it made him crazy when I am negative and shoot down every solution he comes up with - and he was sorry for yelling. I could understand that. I apologized for being negative and that I should have just spelled out what I was feeling from the get-go. So, in a way, I was being unreasonable. I sure wish he would have been able to phrase his need for validation (his ideas/suggestions that get dismissed) more positively, instead of making it a criticism about you. Could he have said: Hey, it hurts me to rarely have an idea that gets a nod of approval. Or if feels that way. Next time, can you agree to something I suggest? [/color]I agree with his ideas plenty when I'm not aggravated with him for doing something different first, before asking. [color:#FF0000]I'm glad he apologized for yelling. And ... how are you going to meet this criticism? How will you not shoot down his ideas? OR is this hyperbole in the heat of the moment, meaning you DO take his suggestions as equally as your own? [/color]Normally we are both very giving towards each other about ideas - and about being considerate. I take his suggestions plenty of times as he does mine as well. [color:#FF0000]Yet, I didn't like that he is so geared to finding my faults that he does not look at himself and his own faults. It wasn't like he behaved appropriately in the whole matter. Hmmmm. Next time, maybe you should both reflect what each of you two could have done better, rather than tell each other what the other one did to piss each other off. Less lovebusting and more proactive in avoiding fights in the future. [/color]Good suggestion! [color:#FF0000]So...it was all very stupid and very high school-ish. Yet, it is rare that this kind of thing happens. Aren't all fights like this usually? Thinking on it now, I believe I know why I was so triggered so easily. Our friend who is in town treats his wife like she is a princess. He puts her on a pedestal - and I would LOVE to be treated that way. She wasn't even with him this trip but even the way he talks to her on the phone makes me envious. I would love to feel cherished like that... It made IB cheeseburgers seem like a slap in the face when I know they weren't meant to be. Friend would never go get cheeseburgers, knowing his wife was hungry too and that they had discussed plans to eat... Aha! You've hit the nail on the proverbial head. You want to be cherished and you don't feel like it when you're fighting (and hungry to boot). So, now that you are out of the rational moments, take time to think about how your H cherishes you. Write a list. Is it long enough? Does it hit on your most important needs? If it doesn't, that's why you're feeling blue about it. If in this rational moment, you think the list is solid, well then you ARE solid! [/color] Another good idea... thanks. I will do that. [color:#FF0000]I know my H has a different type of personality than friend does. I would never be attracted to someone like friend, more than likely... "more than likely" ... that's a bit of a red flag to me, Sunny. Reads to me that you are somewhat "open" to being attracted to men other than your husband? I find that hard to believe and hope I am reading that phrase wrong. But the way you phrased it kinda panicked me a smidge. My H has a different way of talking - of showing care - of being romantic... yet, instead of accepting that, I want it how I want it, when I want it, the way I want it. While I don't think that's a bad thing, it is a thing. But you fell in love with him, right? And if he's anything like my FWH, he hasn't changed all that much in the way he romances. So what did he do then -- that he's probably doing now -- that you simply couldn't get enough of? Or does he not do those things anymore? [/color] He hasn't been doing those things.  Of course, I admitted upthread that part of this is my doing - being so involved with school and such. [color:#FF0000]I struggle: am I being too demanding, or is H just not "getting" what I want? Then worse thoughts come to mind, "Maybe he purposefully doesn't give me want I want, the way I want it." OR...even worse....maybe I am not 'good enough' to have what I think I deserve, at least in his eyes. I don't inspire him to "cherish" me, perhaps. Thus, my feelings vacillate between self doubt, anger, sadness, and self-pity. From all you've written about your H, I don't think he's so complex as to double-fake you out and not give you what you want because he wants to somehow punish you. I think it gets back to knowing what each other needs and how to hit those sweet spots. And, he needs to be retrained to hit your sweet spots so that you, in turn, make him go ga-ga and want to make you supremely happy. Obviously we still have a lot of work to do in the "meeting needs" department. Join the club, sister! The argument ended well in terms of having a good discussion. I told him he can't tell me I am "not allowed" to cry and he should care more about my feelings than being right at that moment. I agreed I need to be more reasonable and open-minded instead of so emotionally charged. We made up while we waited for friend. BUT....we sure wasted a couple of hours on nothing! Some of it came down to bad communication. H thought our discussion over things was over. I didn't. (It was interrupted by S17's phone call.) It also didn't help that H did not tell me at the beginning that he got me a cheeseburger too, if I wanted it, in case I was hungry. He only mentioned getting burgers for himself. So, he was thinking of you and your hunger, just not in the "drinks/apps" kinda way. More in a CAVEMAN-MUST-EAT-AND-MAKE-WIFE-HAPPY-WAY? [/color]exactly! He was looking at primary needs. I wanted an event. lol But gheesh - what else were we going to do for the next couple of hours?! [color:#FF0000]I honestly don't know why I was so attitudnal about not wanting to go to a restaurant (for drinks/appetizers) after he'd just gotten the burgers. He said we could still do that. I feel funny about eating alone with someone else "watching" for one thing. I don't know why. For another, it was just the thought of us being not in sync.... of not working together... no POJA going on... it just felt wrong. I addressed this above. Let me know if you think I'm right ... But, ultimately, it sounds like you ended it well. So my question is: Did you grind through it enough to help you in the future? [/color] Yep... you got it right. lol. Yeah, it ended well. We're just having to get better at this communication stuff - and I think we'll do better in the future. [color:#FF0000]Cheers, SP
Last edited by SunnyDinTX; 12/12/11 05:31 PM.
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Sounds good! Nice work on deconstructing the whole mess.
We had a horrible argument last week (something in the air?) about something missing in the house. I get blamed for "moving" things, but no one else likes to pick up. DS13 called me to say he was looking for a piece of paper and that dad had said I probably moved it. Made me furious, especially because I had no recollection of moving this important piece of paper. But what make me even more mad was that FWH said I did it to the kid. No support. And really no evidence.
We had a horrible fight on the phone (both at work), then I came home, and he apologized right out of the gate, but then we started on each other, and he literally kicked our dog in the midst of it (not hard, BUT STILL!!!!). I BLEW UP!!!! You do NOT take your aggravation with me out on a defenseless animal who wasn't doing anything than showing ME love because I just got home. OY BOY. That was not fun.
However, we soon talked it all over, and we both spent most of our time talking about how each of us could support each other more and not be to quick to attack each other.
Perfect ... we are not!
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I calmed down after I wrote my last post about finding the worksheets and wanted to write a quick update. I DON'T think that H thinks he is perfect and has no fault. I feel he knows his intent and he thinks it is perfectly clear, when it isn't always. Thus, because he knows HIS side, he doesn't understand when he gets negative response and then he feels he needs to attack. My husband and I get this way too. Sometimes it takes us a while to even try to see that the other is struggling with our position. But we are working those moments, so that is good! It's my job to communicate better. Well, his too. But much of our issues just need better communication. And don't forget how old habits are a part of that. If you were like us, those love banks were probably fairly empty and there was probably a lot of fingerpointing to justify FHW's affair. In addition to building love, we all have to figure out a way to fight more fairly? Anyway, to touch on one "alarming" thing from your post, SP: NO, I'm not open to being attracted to other men! I was thinking in psychological terms. You know, we tend to be attracted to a "type" and I've never been attracted to the Friend's "type" and therefore, I must (inwardly) be attracted to the type of man H is for a reason - that I need him to be who he is more than I need him to be a flowery romantic. Does that make sense? Perfectly! Glad you were able to put things back into perspective. But, hey, I know how easy it is to spiral out of control. Glad to see you pulled yourself out of that spiral.
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Sounds good! Nice work on deconstructing the whole mess.
We had a horrible argument last week (something in the air?) about something missing in the house. I get blamed for "moving" things, but no one else likes to pick up. DS13 called me to say he was looking for a piece of paper and that dad had said I probably moved it. Made me furious, especially because I had no recollection of moving this important piece of paper. But what make me even more mad was that FWH said I did it to the kid. No support. And really no evidence.
We had a horrible fight on the phone (both at work), then I came home, and he apologized right out of the gate, but then we started on each other, and he literally kicked our dog in the midst of it (not hard, BUT STILL!!!!). I BLEW UP!!!! You do NOT take your aggravation with me out on a defenseless animal who wasn't doing anything than showing ME love because I just got home. OY BOY. That was not fun.
However, we soon talked it all over, and we both spent most of our time talking about how each of us could support each other more and not be to quick to attack each other.
Perfect ... we are not! None of us are perfect. I can say, however, that fighting is progress for us. It is better than keeping it in and stewing! It's just not fun at the time. I think the important thing is to learn something from it and grow. It's hard - as you mentioned in the subsequent post, to learn better habits. It's also hard to take the past out of the equation, but you really have to try to do so. Sometimes just trying to give each other the benefit of the doubt is the most important thing.
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[quote]Sometimes just trying to give each other the benefit of the doubt is the most important thing.[quote]
I think I'd want to hear my FWH actually SAY what his intentions are. Even if they weren't as good as he says, I think SAYING what they are might be useful. Cognitive behaviorally speaking?
Call me crazy!
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Not crazy at all! You're right in that hearing it would help, a lot, I think. (Especially because after so many years there are preconceived notions that sometimes need dispelling.) OH...not sure I mentioned it...but I felt a real milestone was hit with our Saturday fight. First time that I've been upset with H that I didn't think about the affair at all - only the issue at hand! Might seem small, but I'm taking it as a sign of another step towards moving on.
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OH...not sure I mentioned it...but I felt a real milestone was hit with our Saturday fight. First time that I've been upset with H that I didn't think about the affair at all - only the issue at hand! Might seem small, but I'm taking it as a sign of another step towards moving on. Yeah it does sound like a milestone Sunny. Conflict is good and natural for growth right? "sufficient for the day is the evil thereof", comes to mind. Grats on this for you and your Hubby, and Merry Xmas also to you both
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Thanks, CP! Yes...conflict is good for growth, that's for sure. Nice quote, I like it! Hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas as well. I finished finals last night so I'm finally going to get my Christmas shopping done. Saturday is my birthday, so that should be fun! Except...I'm a bit sad. My poor daughter is sick as a dog - thinks she has mono - and might not be able to come home this weekend. I was thinking I should hop in the car to go help her out, but she says she's doing OK. She's had finals this week too but had to postpone 2 of them since she can barely get out of bed.
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Merry Christmas Sunny...
Nice Thread. Coming up on 7,000 views so far.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Merry Christmas Sunny...
Nice Thread. Coming up on 7,000 views so far.
Mr. Wondering Thanks, Mr W! Merry Christmas to you and your family as well! I feel truly blessed. I hope to have more free time in the coming months to pay better attention and help out more. This past semester was so insane! I've got a break now until January and then next semester shouldn't be so daunting. Although, with having 3 kids and a hubby to attend to (not to mention the furry kids) I am always busy - but aren't we all?!
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Sunny:
Happy belated birthday. Sorry I missed it on Saturday and i hope your Christmas is wonderful!
Cheers, SP
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Thanks, Sweet Pea! It was very nice! I had to give specific directions as to how I wanted the day to go, lol, but that's OK. I believe that H now knows exactly how I want my holiday needs met and will be able to do it without instructions later. He followed them all to the letter. Last night H showed S15 His Needs Her Needs and told him it was the secret to getting girls and keeping them. LOL. He's learning. (And I am too!)
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You sound great SD, and Happy belated Bday
You liked the saying, it is from the bible.
Matthew 6
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, Wh at shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
To me it is about priorities, which it sounds like you guys have a grip on also.
Hope your DD gets better, and merry Xmas
Last edited by ConstantProcess; 12/21/11 12:22 AM.
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Sunny:
I'm so glad your B-day went well. Wondering if your sense of happiness was met having had your H meet your expectations that you had specifically laid out.
My guess is yes. That you have very specific ideas of how your needs can be met, and that by spelling them out, your H gets it accomplished.
You can give him the opportunity to "surprise" you on much less important days!
Cheers,
SP
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You sound great SD, and Happy belated Bday
You liked the saying, it is from the bible.
Matthew 6
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, Wh at shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
To me it is about priorities, which it sounds like you guys have a grip on also.
Hope your DD gets better, and merry Xmas Thanks, CP - for the birthday/Christmas/DD wishes. I AM doing well, I'm happy to report! I am feeling trigger free and totally satisfied with recovery progress. I no there's no guarantees those darn triggers won't rear their ugly heads, but right now, we are doing GREAT. DD is on her way home, my boys are doing well, S15 will be S16 tomorrow,H and I are awesome, and I'm done Christmas shopping! Couldn't ask for anything more. I'm surprised I didn't recognize that verse. I usually know my bible pretty well. Hmmm... maybe my translation puts the wording differently. Merry Christmas to you and yours, CP!
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Sunny:
I'm so glad your B-day went well. Wondering if your sense of happiness was met having had your H meet your expectations that you had specifically laid out.
My guess is yes. That you have very specific ideas of how your needs can be met, and that by spelling them out, your H gets it accomplished.
You can give him the opportunity to "surprise" you on much less important days!
Cheers,
SP Yep - that's exactly it. It wasn't as much "fun" having to provide step-by-step instructions, but the way I chose to look at it was this: he cared enough to ask; and when I told him, he cared enough to follow through. It's much better than saying nothing and then things not going your way and being sad. It helps that he asked because he really wanted to know and it was not one of those "I better do it so I'm not in the doghouse" kind of deals. I watched my dad have to do that with my mom waaay too much and it's not the same. H has bragged about how much fun he's had Christmas shopping for me. I've had fun shopping for him too! I provided him (upon request) with a list of things that I would like. Not like a checklist of "get me A,B,C, and D..." but just a bunch of items in all kinds of price ranges that I would be happy to get. I certainly don't expect to get all of those things - they were just ideas, after all. I think we're going to have a lot of fun Christmas! I'm trying to figure out what to make for Christmas Eve dinner. Any good ideas? It's just going to be the 5 of us. Christmas day I'm doing prime rib and all that. Last year we did finger foods but I don't know if I liked that. It was a lot more work than it sounds. I still don't know what I'm doing for Christmas dessert! I'm making a cheesecake for S15's birthday tomorrow. I was thinking maybe chocolate mousse for Christmas - although, DD doesn't like chocolate all that much. (SACRILEGE, I know!)
Last edited by SunnyDinTX; 12/21/11 09:39 PM.
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Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 361 |
Sunny:
I'm glad both events (birthday and Christmas) are meeting your needs! And, your H may develop be able to develop a habit of doing so more on his own as he continues to get excellent guidance and excellent feedback (and probably extra SF and affection, too) as a result. Ahhhh, the circle of needs meeting. Love it!
Ideas for Christmas Eve. I'm working on the Eve, and we're celebrating on Christmas Day. You're having prime rib on the day, so I'd do something super easy on the eve: fish? shrimp and pasta? Or would anyone tolerate an entree-style salad to save room for the big meal the next day?
If you want something impressive that's not that hard, try a stuffed crown pork roast. Once the stuffing is made, it's really just a matter of roasting it, so there's nothing to it. We made this for the big meal last year, and it went over really well.
We're trying something totally new this year, and I'm hoping it turns out. We're making German-style roasted pork shanks. Had them at a nearby restaurant and they were outstanding. Plus, we're both of German heritage, so we thought it would be fitting. FWH had a horrible time, though, finding pork shanks. We'll see!
Dessert? We're just having Christmas cookies. I kinda went a little crazy/Martha Stewart and made a bunch and some really beautiful/tasty ones. I'll try to post a pic if I can figure out how to. LOL!
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