She told me that she wanted an abortion before the act was done. I told her I disagreed but she persuaded me saying that she could live in this tortured reality of me smoking but that she would not force that same fate on another human being. Keep in mind that I was never abusive while high, quite the opposite - more loving and in touch with my emotions. My biggest "violation" while high was smiling or laughing when she considered it inappropriate.

I took her to the abortion clinic but would not go inside with her. The 45 minutes alone in the car was perhaps the most agonizing in my life. I was literally praying nonstop to God for forgiveness. It's as if my soul was departing from this shell of a body while my child was being aborted.

I thought it was overly dramatic, after all I am a very responsible husband and I never let smoking interfere with family life or my job. In fact I have a very good job but a demanding one and I have been very successful at it while smoking. I gave up smoking for the last 2 weeks to show her that I am serious about changing for her. It's stressful but only because my life is blowing up, not because the drug has a hold on me. My head is clear but I am not relaxed. Not a big deal, I am used to dealing wih a lot of stress from my last job and I realize it comes with the territory (the fallout from the A).

I guess the abortion DID let my guard down, it broke me as a person. But it was not the direct reason for the affair.

I am willing to stay clean for her if thats what she wants even though I felt in the past her opinion of my smoking was a controlling tactic for her to get what she wanted. (the fixer'up argument - marry me then work on changing all the things you don't like) I am willing to suck it up, I do want to quit for myself as well but the timing is because of her.

In the past her demands for me to quit have been serious love busters for me, who likes feeling controlled? Now I realize that me enjoying this particular pastime/hobby was a love buster for her. I am willing to back down on this one in hopes that she will be more giving on other things I value (a healthy sex life).

That's a pretty lame excuse for killing an unborn child. How long was she pregnant before she decided on the abortion?

I appreciate all who have helped to validate my feelings on the abortion issue. Although I have come to terms with what happened, and found it in my heart to forgive her, she is still steadfast that it "was the right thing to do" and "our only option".

She was about 8 - 10 weeks in, it was the last opportunity for her to get a particular type of abortion. I don't know the details of the procedure, it makes me very sad thinking about it.

***EDIT***

There seem to be some very big value differences between you two especially as far as having children are concerned. Does she even want to have kids? The answer to that question will go a long way in determining whether this marriage is salvageable.

She says she wants kids. I believe her, despite the abortion.

When we were newly married she said she wanted kids at the time (another cultural thing with Chinese is to marry and have kids ASAP).

I insisted we wait though - we were both students at the time living from paycheck to paycheck from my part time job. I wanted to establish a career or at least a reliable cash flow before we had children.

She has agreed that it was correct to wait (now and prior to the affair). I am the patient one in the relationship, and the practical thinker. She is very intelligent and good at long term planning but much more emotional and MUCH less patient.

Regretful420, at 8-10 weeks, a woman already knows she has been pregnant for nearly a month if not more, the baby has a heartbeat, and is almost into the 2nd trimester. For a wife to continue with abortion for non-medical reasons against the wishes of her husband is IMO not forgivable. Can you be honest with yourself and say whether or not you can truly get past that? How will you deal with future pregnancies knowing that if she doesn't like something about you, she may terminate? I lost my own pregnancy, unwillingly, at 9 weeks on Monday. I will spare you the gory details, but I will say that it resembled a baby by that stage already.

Whether she wants kids or not is one thing - whether she is emotionally ready to be a mother is another thing. To terminate your own child for such a reason, is a huge red flag to me, as a mother myself.

Others can touch on the affair issue, I have no personal experience. But I have experience with the pregnancy - good luck.

In Canada where I am from, 13 weeks is 2nd trimester, and he said 8-10 weeks so yes, I consider that close to 2nd trimester. Regardless of the technical term, a baby (or fetus) at 8-10 weeks has a heartbeat and he didn't want her to terminate. Whatever her cultural implications for this "imperfect" child, of which there is no scientific evidence to support a baby of a pot-smoking male would have any deformities or defects, it was against his wishes.

Yes, as the woman, it is still her body as the baby is not yet considered a life of it's own under law in most places. However, she terminated his apparently healthy child and it hurts him. I don't see how that can be forgivable. If she is willing to terminate based on such beliefs, which are completely unfounded by science, then I would warn him to attempt to have more children with her. He does not share these beliefs. If she chooses to have children with a man of the same cultural beliefs than that is his prerogative. God forbid her future children have some sort of other less-than-perfect health issue, disability, etc.

Think long and hard before having children with someone whose love for a child is conditional.

It is good that you recognize this. Nothing she did could cause you to have an affair. That is your choice. In order to recover, you must take responsibility for your choice and its consequences.


You know, there are two kinds of control. One kind is when you try to make people do what you want. This is incredibly abusive. It is basically enslavement.

The other kind is where you try to get somebody to stop doing something that affects you negatively. In this case, you aren't trying to make somebody do anything -- you are trying to stop them from abusing you!

Have you read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts and his guide to recovery from infidelity?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

Wait. Which is it?

One thing that you might want to consider is that having an abortion can make child bearing more difficult in the future.

Right now though, kids should not be on your radar... Fixing your marriage should be.


To all: Apologies for the description of the procedure. My intent wasn't to shock anyone, just relate the details... I'll be more careful next time.

Are you saying that my smoking, in and of itself is abusive to her? Who draws that line? What if I don't like he way Chinese language sounds to my ears? Is her watching Chinese TV abusive to me? How about my request for her to not watch Chinese TV? Is that abusive?

I always thought of abuse as saying something which makes another person feel bad about themselves (insults, sarcastic outbursts, etc.) or doing something which causes physical pain (forcing sex, slapping, etc) or doing something which threatens the above ("get in line woman, or else!!" or raising a hand as if to threaten hitting).

By that definition, nothing about me smoking was abusive. Is it the fact that the smell bothers her abusive? What if I had to fart? Or if she doesn't close the door when going #2?

I am not trying to argue that I should smoke here, just don't really understand the abuse part of it. Is it because it neglects her feelings? Anything that neglects feelings is abusive? What do you do when there is a conflict of feelings? Take turns taking abuse?

I was always at least as nice to her when high as I was when sober.

As for the abortion, my first explanation was perhaps poorly worded. The abortion heavily influenced my feelings and caused me to have a serious personality shift. At the end of the day I am only what I feel, and the abortion made me feel soulless and evil. I was a jack*** in general for the following months, and one of the crappy things I did was to have an A. No question the abortion had influence, no question the sexual neglect had influence. In this regard, it was simply a poor choice I made when I felt alone and hopeless. The abortion contributed to making me feel that way.

I accept responsibility for my poor choice. There are no excuses, but there are reasons/influences.

If you smoked weed around her, it could be construed as abusive. If she didn't approve of it and made it clear and you still did it, it would be quite emotionally abusive to her.
The stuff is not legal for recreational use (in China, the punishment is severe, as an aside).
I, personally would not live in a house with someone who smoked it at home.
I am not a prude but I am a law abiding citizen and its not legal.
We can get into the various issues the use of it can do to people next year. I won't get started on that.

What if we live in California or one of the other 13 (13+?) states where it is not illegal?

Forgive me for arguing the point but I do want to understand her/other perspectives better on the abuse side of this issue. Is it because it is is illegal? Is it not abusive when it is not illegal?

What about the Chinese TV? Is that abusive to either party? What about emailing a friend in China materials on tienamann square? (forgive my spelling) or the tank man? Surely these are illegal but are they abusive? If so is it then okay to email someone in the states the same material?

Thanks for helping me to understand. I am honestly not trying to be difficult here but I can certainly see how that might be construed. I do have a somewhat thick skull at times I will admit.

Alis, thank you for sharing your story, I feel your pain and am sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you and your family. God bless.

Read here.
The Policy of Joint Agreement

This might help you understand.

Regretful, I asked if you'd read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts, and I don't believe you answered. Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts answer all of these questions.

Regretful, it has nothing to do with legality, and everything to do with your wife's feelings. Please read the Basic Concepts. When you joined here, you clicked a button to indicate that you agreed to read them before posting.

Personally, I advocate pot legalization. But I do not advocate doing anything that bothers your spouse. Period.

Thanks for posting that link; according to POJA both my smoking and her watching Chinese TV would be abusive, is that a correct interpretation?