Well, this is interesting. FWH read my entire thread while I was at work last night.

He said it made him really worried because I hadn't talked to him about the level of my worries, and that he WANTS to meet my ENs.

He said clearly he hasn't been doing enough, and that he's going to up his game. Not because HE needs to change MORE -- he feels really good about where he's at and how strong he is -- but because it's what I need. And he wants me to be reassured and fully healed, like him.

I thought he would be furious about all my whining and carping, but he wasn't. He was concerned and realized that he hasn't been hitting the mark, even after I've told him what I need.

We had a long talk about what I still need that goes beyond the everyday kind of loving attention. And he's totally willing to meet that need.

I truly am lucky to be married to FWH.

I'll let you know how it goes!

that's great news!

AWESOME!!!! Good for you, Mr. SweetPea!!!

what a star, make the most of it,

Communication, must be wonderful!!

Thanks MB pals!

One giant step forward ... one medium-step sideways.

What's this sideways business, you ask?

Ok, after our GREAT talk on Friday, FWH tells me today that he's been asked to help with a corporate project in Seattle for a few days next week. He feels the need to both help and keep his profile high with corporate folks because he works at a subsidiary in another state.

I know. No nights apart. But I have no vacation left, am already on the work schedule for that time, and a $400 plane ticket to Seattle is out of our budget for now.

I am torn. Yes, FWH is strong. Very strong. And we are rock solid, too. Intellectually, my mind says FWH wouldn't throw away all of our hard work from the past year to selfishly gratify himself sexually with a stranger.

But a FEAR button inside me has been pushed.

I know one reason why it's created such a strong reaction: FWH used a work trip to rendezvous with POSOW last year on Nov. 12.

So, I guess I can surmise that work trip=trigger.

Timing of this trip couldn't be worse. Grrrrrrr.

What to do? Ask FWH to strategize with me on how to stay connected -- digitally -- while he's gone? I'd hate to think my only option is to force him to not go. (These are pretty rare; maybe one a year.)

Thoughts?

I had to go to a family funeral out of state last December. It was only months after reconciliation - so I didn't like the thought of being away at all! (There was no way H could go.) You would think that since I was going to be the one out of town with him home (with the kids) that it would be fine. Well, I was still triggered!

We handled it by H making sure to be available by phone 24/7. He texted me a lot - and I called and talked to him before bedtime.

Does Mr. SP have a laptop with Skype capability? I think that if it had my Mr. Sunny going out of town (instead of me) I would have wanted that. That way I would be assured of feeling secure about his whereabouts.

Also, I think I would also want a "no alcohol" rule in place.

I read you latest post, Sweet Pea, just after reading the new thread on Recovery, "No Contact Broken." Alarm bells!! Be sure to read it! Are you sure you can't manage to go with him to Seattle?

Sunny and Its:

We talked about this more thoroughly last night. He says if I'm really distressed, he'll find a way to get out of it. But the reality is: He's not only feeling the pressure to go from the reasons above, but he really enjoys helping turn over a property. He's a problem-solver. Makes him feel useful, and he's good at it, too.

No alcohol without me is our rule, and he enthusiastically confirmed that last night. No worries with that.

And he reassured me that he has, through therapy, figured out why he so craved attention from others and didn't even realize its power over him or his ability to justify lying/cheating in order to get it. Attention was the big blinking RED LIGHT that led him to POSOW last year (and in two previous affairs in his first marriage).

FYI: FWH had two affairs in his first marriage during absences from his wife: one, when she moved a few days ahead of him and he screwed a colleague at his going away party; two, during long-term training program. And, obviously, one during our marriage in which he used the "excuse" of a business trip to meet his POSOW that he'd screwed the month before on a golf trip.

So, when I write it down, his history screams: HE SHOULDN'T GO AWAY. HE'S PROGRAMMED TO CHEAT. HE'S DONE IT THREE TIMES ALREADY.

But my heart says: He's worked so hard, and we've worked so hard. He IS a different man. Is it impossible to believe that he is incapable of acting with the utmost of integrity now?

He knows we're done if he cheats again, and there are no more excuses. So to me, the question is: Will he cheat knowing EVERYTHING he knows now? I'd like to think he wouldn't.

I'm sure MB vets would say: Um, Sweet, you're being stupid. He has proven he can't handle himself time and again. He has bad boundaries and will have them for the rest of his life.

But he HAS changed. It's true, and I know this and see it every day. Is there no room in MB philosophy for a FWH to have changed so deeply that he can be trusted to properly use EPs/boundaries to be faithful when circumstances force a separation?

I think of GLOVE OIL or Wulfpackgirl. I wonder if either of them thinks they would cheat again, knowing what they know now. Is it SOLELY the "never sleep alone" precaution that keeps them on the straight/narrow?

Or have they had a fundamental change to their psyche, as I believe my FWH has had happen to him?

I'm totally at odds.

Itsmeagain:

I did read NO CONTACT BROKEN. Scared the bejesus out of me. A two-hour return call to his POSOW?!@(#*&$(&*$(@* I would have gone ballistic, as did the poster.

This trip is legit, and FWH only used work once to rendezvous with POSOW. Never before, and he says he's not interested in repeating anything like that in the future.

We'll see!

Sweetpea-

I've been following this thread. I just knew I needed to post my own before commenting on yours.

Being the "no contact broken" person does give me a little insight to what you've got going through your head. It does. I also know that my husband has changed a lot (but he obviously has some more changing to do!)

I think you are right on with your approach to let him go - BUT with precautions in place and 24/7 "monitoring"! I know it is hard (boy, do I!), but I actually believe that you can come out stronger after the trip if he walks the straight and narrow. He will be proud of himself and you will be proud of him - and that will give both of you the attention you need!!

Will I "let" my WH go on his next business trip? Yes I will. I actually already did last week. But he was/will be in complete contact with me via text, email and phone - just as we are every day. I know where his weakness is - and he knows where/what it is too.

I just read an interesting article about willpower. The #1 way to boost your willpower is to get more sleep. In reverse, sleep deprivation leads to dramatic lowering of willpower. The trip my WH was on when he broke the no contact was not a good "sleeping" trip. Jet lag and then early morning/late night flight tests had him just grabbing a couple hours here and there over the 5 days. That absolutely doesn't point to an excuse for his behavior, but it does let us know that he needs to be extra careful with his behavior when he is sleep deprived - at home and away!

Something that we've done the past almost 2 years but was absent from that infamous trip, due to his insane schedule, was drift off to sleep together and wake up together - even if we're 1/2 way around the world. Pillow talk at night (both of you brush your teeth and then go to bed and chat until one of you can't keep your eyes open) and getting a wake up call from your spouse when you are away from each other is essential. I will definitely demand it from now on and never let the work schedule keep us from that routine - even if I need to stay up an additional 3 or 4 hours to make it happen or go back to bed so I can snuggle with his pillow and talk to him!

Just some ideas from someone who has "been there" - and is still there trying to make this all work.

I like this idea.


Do you really feel this would be OK, given what happened to your FWH (that two-hour call)? I'm freaking out for you! Especially because he won't give you a word-for-word recounting of it. ANd, it makes me worried that old habits die really, really hard.

You still sound so confident that you know your husband's heart, when he won't tell you what was said.

Sigh for us all!

Yes, I think it is ok. Although someone else will most likely beat me up for saying this since the "no travel" card is one of those important areas of MB. (I'm, of course, dealing with that on my own thread...) It's not that I'm cherry picking it away, I'm just noting that this is one of those areas that sometimes you can't be "perfect", but I still believe you can use it to your advantage, if you work through it properly, to help each other gain, not take away units, in your LB and to try to "trust" again.

I can tell you that our situations are a bit different. Your FWH is dealing with faceless enchantresses. You guys have worked together to strengthen your relationship and his lack of boundaries. He needs to feel those boundaries when he is away from you as well as when you are near. He has a lot to gain in proving to himself, and to you, that he is capable of keeping those boundaries. In many respects he does need to prove to you that he can do this! And just think of all the attention you will both get when he gets home after succeeding!! (Another note - meet him at the airport for his return. Pay the parking fee and meet him inside the airport...)

My story is a bit different. My WH (I've dropped the F right now...) has a POSOW that has a face and name and has proven time and again that she would do just about anything to have my WH in her clutches. She was with him for over 3 years and broke the engagement off 30 years ago. She would do anything to make sure we are as miserable in life as she is - and trust me, she is miserable. I would not put it past her to show up on our doorstep one day after dumping her kids someplace to declare her love. Her signature on her little mail love note was "All My Love, Forever". Always makes me want to barf (and I'd use that emoticon, but the ones that move give me a touch of vertigo).

So - is it worse having a husband whom the entire pond has potential fish in it, or having a husband who has a surefire bait to catch one particular fish at a moment's notice? I'm not sure, but I do know that they need to prove to us that they are worthy of our love. Let him prove it to you.

PAP, you summed up our challenges quite well.

Though, I do believe what I wrote on your thread -- about our husbands making conscious choices to do what they do -- fits all situations.

FWH's maturation has been awesome to witness. Putting that up against breaking a primary MB tenet has me worried.

Is it: once a cheat always a cheat? or are people truly capable of change.

I know i will not go through this nightmare again, no matter how much I love FWH.

Hi SP - It's easy for a FWS to say "I would never cheat again," but how can anyone believe them? I can look inside myself, and I can tell that I�ve changed. But, it�s very hard for someone else to look at you and believe you�ve changed, when you�ve been so deliberately cruel to them. I'll try to explain why I would never cheat again, and the lessons I've learned (and am still learning).

First of all, Dr. H says that anyone is capable of having an A under certain circumstances - poor boundaries and allowing someone of the opposite sex to meet ENs. Boundaries weren't something that I thought about pre-A, but I'd also never thought about being unfaithful. I'd seen what infidelity did to families. My mother�s brother was a BH and mom�s sister was a WW, and I saw their families destroyed. I was raised in a home with parents who loved each other, and the day of Dad�s funeral would have been their 44th wedding anniversary. I believed marriage was for keeps. I wasn�t raised to think adultery was an option.

My downfall was the combination of poor boundaries and the dormant LB$ account of an ex. I may have had boundaries with other men, but in the case of the ex, who I *should* have been NC for life as Dr. H advises, I did not maintain boundaries and I allowed him to meet ENs.

So you have three lessons learned so far � maintaining boundaries, not allowing someone else to meet your ENs, and NC for life.

I think the �never sleep alone� precaution falls under EPs, which would be another lesson learned. There�s not just ONE EP that is more effective than another � it�s the combination of all EPs. For me, for example, eliminating social networking was an absolutely mandatory EP � but just that one EP alone is not sufficient when you�ve proven yourself to be untrustworthy, as I have.

Another lesson is the importance of building a romantic marriage. A marriage where both spouses� needs are met and LBs are avoided cannot by itself prevent an A - you have to have the entire infrastructure in place. This piece right here I only understand cognitively � right now, H and I don�t have this kind of M, aren�t really working towards it, and we may never have this�but I hope to have it with him someday.

But the biggest lesson learned was that I learned firsthand the consequences of adultery. I learned that some things, once broken, can never be repaired. I devastated my husband. I have altered the course of my daughter�s lives. I learned that I am capable of being a truly despicable human being.

And I learned that I love my husband more than I ever realized, and learned how to be a better wife to him, if he ever decides that I�m worth it again.

I do believe people can change. Yeah, maybe that sounds self-serving coming from a FWS. But people can change. Change � real or perceived - doesn�t equate to a second chance. The second chance you give your FWH, SP, is based entirely out of your grace. It�s up to him to do what he needs to do to earn that second chance, and his every action should demonstrate how thankful he is to have it.

I believe people are truly capable of change - if THEY want to change. We just can't make them change. We can only hold them responsible for their actions.

It...is...their...choice (kind of quoting someone who knows what she is talking about!!)




A good boundary to set. I've just set the same one...

Here's a thought...

As a FW I can tell you without a doubt that I have changed immensely. Many of the things I had to work my butt off to do are now a part of HOW I live.

I can also tell you that I will gladly keep many EPs in place for the sake of my husband. Even now there are things that may not be "required" of me but that I still choose to do...especially when I see CV having a rough day.

As a Christian I have to believe that God changes people. The scriptures are full of examples of this and that gives me hope!

Wow - excellent posts all around!

I really admire FWS's who are willing to be reminded of their pasts in order to help those who need it get through this experience. You guys really give me hope. Thank you for sharing your stories.

I hope that whatever you decide, SP, that you will feel confident of your decision on this. I think it can be done - as long as you put measures in place for if you "panic".

Wulfpack_girl:

Thanks you so much for your reply. I've read your thread for many months and I admire your ability to looks so deeply at yourself and your actions.


This reminds me of a book my IC insisted I read: "Just Let Go." It wasn't about letting go of my husband, but instead letting go of the feeling that I had to control things and that if I just worked hard enough, I could make it all better.

By "letting go," I finally came to the conclusion that my FWH is the only one who can decide to be a man of integrity.

I do really hope that your BS finds the courage to start anew, or that you find the peace that you deserve.

Plan A ... I'd offer that my statement of not going through this again isn't a "boundary" in the classic MB sense. It's a standard that FWH can meet or not.

Glove Oil:

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I have asked my FWH to join MB forum and help advise someone in need, particularly a newly BS who could benefit from seeing that a wayward can change, can meet ENs and EPs. And I quote you to him ... a lot!


I agree. I believe if FWH continues to eschew alcohol, doesn't "hang out" with colleagues after work is done, and maintains contact with me throughout the day, we should be good.


I'm hoping that EPs and consequences are what will help FWH stay on the straight and narrow path.


I know my FWH understands this; I just hope he can keep it top of mind if some younger, gorgeous thing is flirting with him.


We are discussing. And he says he's willing to do what it takes to meet his EPs and make me feel comfortable. THis, however, will be a stretch for him, because he has recently realized that he hasn't been meeting my need for contact. Particularly as we face DDay this weekend, AND because he utterly failed at this request when I had to leave town for a funeral for one night this spring. So, he will be challenged, that's for sure.


This truly resonates with me, Glove. I believe the MB theories -- of behavior modification -- to ensure the soundness of our marriages. But I also see that it will always be a work in progress, and that we can make adjustments -- that we both agree upon -- as they arise.

Thank you, again, Glove. I appreciate the time and energy you put into your response. It truly helps.

P.S.: Do you have your own thread? I'm thinking I might ask my FWH to read it while he's on his trip. ...