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Ok, here is the story. But first let me say sorry to anyone I haven't directly replied too in this thread. Your advice and questions are given freely on your own time and I appreciate it. I'll do my best to answer and respond to all.
I'll try (again) to keep this short. This is just the bad stuff. Good things happened too:
Year 2000: Married. Amazing love. She also initiated sex as much if not more often than me.
Dec. 2002: W walked into the bedroom where I was doing chores and in a matter-of-fact way informed me she didn't need or want sex, it's not important to her, and we are just roommates. I then met a woman online and had an emotional affair for a month or two. When the OW wanted to meet in person I realized I was doing something horrible and ended it. I have never had any contact with OW again.
Early 2003: Confessed affair to W right after I ended it. She didn't seem to care. Told me to get my needs met where I could.
Mid 2003: W went to psychiatrist, diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety. She is taking meds to this day. She stated showing affection and sexual interest in me again. It didn't last. Psychiatrist warned us that the meds destroy libido.
2004-2005 (not sure): Went to Las Vegas for the first time. Decided to visit brothel with W (she was curious about women). Sex with W was amazing for a few months after. Then went back to infrequent. I figured she occasionally needed sex with someone else to fire things up. I started pushing for finding another man because I didn't want another woman. W started pushing for me to find a sex partner because W didn't want it as much as I did and I shouldn't have to go without.
2006: Another trip to Vegas. W sent me to brothel as a birthday present while she went to a spa. She didn't want to go because her curiosity was satisfied. I ended up not doing anything there because I couldn't perform. I kept thinking about W and how I only want her. Told W at dinner that night and she just lit up. She was happy I couldn't do it without her. Affection and sex restored for a few more months.
2006-2007: Affection was average/mediocre. One night we had a drunken 3-way with a guy we knew. Again, for a few months she was all over me.
2007-2008: Decided to have a baby. She went off her meds and started wanting sex all the time. I was convinced the meds were our problem. She can't stay off them and still function in day to day life. Based on past experience I concluded to combat the meds my W needs to occasionally get a one night stand to keep the fires burning.
2010: I had a one night stand. I didn't like it. I don't want anyone else, I want my W and I want my W to want me.
2011: Convinced that the only way I'd ever get my SF needs met was for W to have a fling now and again I pushed her to find someone.
Sept: We setup a profile for her on ashleymadison. After a few men expressed interest she said she didn't want this and wasn't going to do it. The next morning she told me she changed her mind and wanted to give it a try. She then met the OM. For the first two weeks after meeting him in person she wanted sex with me all the time. Almost every day. I started realizing she was emotionally involved with OM and I was just the available body when she couldn't see OM. I asked her to end it. She was very upset but did so. Two days later she was suddenly fine. I asked if she was still seeing OM and she admitted she called him.
One week later she saw him "one last time" to say goodbye.
Oct. week 1: Started marriage counseling. Not through MarriageBuilders. Didn't know about this site yet.
Oct. week 2: W and our toddler went out of town to visit W's friend. Left Friday, came back Tuesday. Trip had been planned many months ago. I discovered W had contacted OM last week after first counseling appt. To hide it W had her mom relay text messages between her and OM. That way I would only see mom's number on the bill. W told me OM just wanted to know how counseling appt. went. I now start snooping hard.
Week 3: The next weekend we went to dinner and a movie. Decided to skip the movie and went to a hotel room. I thought things were looking up.
Week 4: My dad died. W and I started really talking about where our lives were and I noticed inconsistencies in her recent history. Did more snooping. I confronted her mom about the texts and she said she only did it those couple of days and she wasn't involved anymore. W gave me all the excuses like, "can't we just forget about it and move on? Why do you keep bringing things up? I can't remember exactly what happened."
I asked for a divorce. The next morning she pulled out a calendar and said, "This may not matter now but here is everything that happened." And the list follows.
1: W had sex with OM on the "day she said goodbye". W decided to text through mom. W almost got caught by accident so she setup a fake Facebook profile and messaged / chatted through there. 2: The weekend trip to a friends was only Sat. and Sun. Friday she spent the night with OM in hotel with our child and did it again on the way back Monday night. 3: A week after this W took child to zoo. She texted and called me during the trip to tell me what they were doing. OM was with them the whole time.
Note: OM lives about an hour away so It's not like they can just bump into each other. Every meeting has to be planned.
I've confronted W's parents but they take her side. "This never would have happened if you didn't make her find another man." W's friends take a similar stance. We had our first MarriageBuilders phone appointment.
The day after I exposed the OM's continued membership on ashleymadison (from the first post), W and I had sex. She said she was trying to meet my needs just like I was trying to meet hers and like our MarriageBuilder's counselor said. She said she really enjoyed it as well. This was last Thursday.
Last Friday we went to a very fancy dinner and had a show to go to. During dinner I said, "I'd like to see you this weekend" (old code words for being intimate). She rolled her eyes. I told her I wasn't trying to pressure her and she said, "good because it makes me uncomfortable."
Now I don't know what to think. Did Thursday's sex happen just because she was sad and lonely after finding out the OM was just a player? Was she really trying to meet my needs? Am I just the warm body to be used for booty calls for her needs? Am I to understand that this has been an open marriage for some time? You actually set up the account at ashleymadison together, so that she could have sex with other men. You thought that this would benefit you sexually, but what actually happened was that she became attached ago OM and not you. You have found yourself to be "just the warm body to be used for booty calls for her needs" and you don't like it. You thought that you could control her responses after she had sex with other men with your blessing, and you are now finding that it doesn't work like that. So, given your willingness to have an open marriage, your objection is not to your wife having sexual relationships with other men, or to her contacting other men today, it's to the fact that she no longer wants to have sex with you as a result of that. Is that correct?
BW Married 1989 His PA 2003-2006 2 kids.
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mbtechguy, you should have been forthcoming with this before. Cherry-picking your history has given us an incomplete picture of your situation.
Okay. So you've been in an open marriage. And you're now seeing the negative outcome of such a dangerous arrangement. The sex act is an act of intimacy between a man and woman to bond their commitment to each other. You've both engaged in activities outside of your marriage that have eroded that special bond between you.
I'm going to wait to hear what Steve has to say to you in your counseling session tomorrow. I believe your M is salvageable if that's what you're both committed to. I just want to caution you to be completely honest with Steve! If you're not willing to do that you're wasting your time and his.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Am I to understand that this has been an open marriage for some time? You actually set up the account at ashleymadison together, so that she could have sex with other men. Close. We setup the account together. She had me set one up too but I didn't use it and both accounts have been deleted. She was never supposed to be alone. It was supposed to be the 3 of us. When she was with him the first time it was alone because she said it would be awkward with me there. What I didn't know is that she had been having deep conversations with him every night for weeks and was already hiding that from me. I was still under the impression this was just a fling. You thought that this would benefit you sexually, but what actually happened was that she became attached ago OM and not you. You have found yourself to be "just the warm body to be used for booty calls for her needs" and you don't like it. Correct. Update: I asked W about Thursday and she said she had no agenda. She just went with what she felt. She didn't know she was reacting so negatively to my sexual advances and that she'd try to have less negative responses but she doesn't know what to say when she doesn't want sex. You thought that you could control her responses after she had sex with other men with your blessing, and you are now finding that it doesn't work like that. Correct. So, given your willingness to have an open marriage, your objection is not to your wife having sexual relationships with other men, or to her contacting other men today, it's to the fact that she no longer wants to have sex with you as a result of that. Is that correct? No. I don't want an open marriage. I realize now that was never the answer. I thought it would be fun for both of us and it wasn't. I thought that's what W secretly wanted/needed. W really needed me to meet her top 5 EN's. She never told me I wasn't meeting them and I didn't tell her she wasn't meeting mine. We just put on our brave faces and soldiered on. W still maintains she never wanted an open marriage, doesn't want one now, and only did it to make me happy. But because she fell in love with OM she didn't want to give him up so that's when the real affair began. Right now I'm trying to show her affection but she rejects a lot of it because she thinks I'm just trying to convince her to have sex. I'm going to keep trying. I want to make this right. I want my angel back.
Married 11 years. 1 Toddler, 1 Teen
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mbtechguy, you should have been forthcoming with this before. Cherry-picking your history has given us an incomplete picture of your situation.
Okay. So you've been in an open marriage. And you're now seeing the negative outcome of such a dangerous arrangement. The sex act is an act of intimacy between a man and woman to bond their commitment to each other. You've both engaged in activities outside of your marriage that have eroded that special bond between you.
I'm going to wait to hear what Steve has to say to you in your counseling session tomorrow. I believe your M is salvageable if that's what you're both committed to. I just want to caution you to be completely honest with Steve! If you're not willing to do that you're wasting your time and his. Its actually Jennifer. I agree, total honesty. Sorry for the cherry-picking. I was just so focused on the setback mistake I made and I needed to find out how bad I did. I wasn't intending to hide my guilt which is why I finally posted my whole story. In full truth I would have posted the whole story in the beginning but I wrote most of this on my cell phone at work and had to hide what I was doing from co-workers. Now it's the weekend, neither W or I are working so I have a bit of time.
Married 11 years. 1 Toddler, 1 Teen
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I need to learn to be a much different person than I have been. I'm scared.
Married 11 years. 1 Toddler, 1 Teen
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I need to learn to be a much different person than I have been. I'm scared. Change can be scary. Don't be afraid of becoming better, though the process may seem frightening. Just put one foot in front of the other. Say one sentence at a time. Be conscious of yourself. You'll be okay. Let us know how it goes with Jennifer!
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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@mbtechguy: Your story is the EXACT kind of reason why MarriageBuilders exists. Huge quantities of disinformation exist as to how to make marriages work. Most of it is neutral or bad... very little is good.
The recipe Dr. Harley created works. And it works really well. Avoid using old methods of discussion, and initiate new ones. So when you have a craving for sex -- and make no mistake, for men it's a craving every bit as real as needing food, but typically less so for most women -- negotiate using new language, avoiding your old patterns of behavior.
Like I wouldn't refer to the weekend thing when you need sex. If you're like most men, you'll wake up with your strongest craving first thing in the morning. Schedule time to spend three hours with her that day. Spend at least two of those hours prior to sex engaged in her intimate emotional needs (typically Intimate Conversation and Affection), then don't broach sex until after you've already spent two quality hours together. You'll find her much more receptive.
As far as books, read Love Busters. I'd do this FIRST. Not sure where Steve is on it -- he's a great counselor, if I understand correctly -- but learning how to stop hurting each other if you were once compatible is often enough to get the restoration of love well under way. "Surviving An Affair" is really good for figuring out how & why the two of you sought to have your needs met outside of your marriage, and "His Needs, Her Needs" is good to plan to read together as a couple later on. Truthfully, a lot of it starts to feel like a "re-tread": it's the same topics given different treatments for different audiences.
Best of luck!
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Another "lets have extra sex partners story" then reality hits. This shows why openning a marriage never works.
Glad you are here working on recovery.
Glad you came out with the turth.
Another truth is it would help your WW to join and post on her own. You can ask what Jennifer thinks.
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Had session 2 with Jennifer. I have real hope now. I know it's very early in our recovery and setbacks are still a huge risk but WW and I are really talking about our needs. It turns out that 3 of the 5 top EMs are the same! Different rankings but so similar. We had a long discussion about how to meet these EMs and so far we've discovered our initial problems started because HOW we want our EMs met are different. I did it the way I wanted and vise versa. Amazing how being a little off target years ago compounded into the terrible situation we are in today.
Married 11 years. 1 Toddler, 1 Teen
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that is the key mbtechguy to do it the way the other wants not the way you want....we made that mistake too. listening really helps, reviewing, checking to see if everything is still good... never getting lazy about filling the needs, taking the time, giving up something else if you have to........ telling each other how special and lucky you are to have each other........make sure they know it, don't just assume...... one foot in front of the other, together..
BW 56 WH 57 Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that..... DS 23, DS 25 D-Day Nov 23/09 NC Mar 1/10 Working on Recovery Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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Remember, don't look back. Put everything you've done in the past. Your only focus should be how you're doing things NOW and IN THE FUTURE.
That focus helped like crazy. When you have so much to resent, resentment can overcome you. Focusing on what your spouse is doing NOW, TODAY, and ONLY today as far as what needs improvement? That really helps success!
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Looks like Thanksgiving will be tricky. We've always done it with WW's family but I'm not comfortable seeing them right now. The compromise we have is that W will go to her family in the afternoon for a couple hours while our turkey is cooking. I don't think that either of us are in full enthusiastic agreement but it's as close as we can get right now.
I told W that I just can't work on fixing us and my relationship with her mom and dad right now. I need to focus on our marriage and her parents will just have to wait a bit.
Married 11 years. 1 Toddler, 1 Teen
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Remember the default position is to do *nothing*. I mean, literally "sit at home and stare at the walls" nothing. Helps a lot in our negotiations 
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Looks like Thanksgiving will be tricky. We've always done it with WW's family but I'm not comfortable seeing them right now. The compromise we have is that W will go to her family in the afternoon for a couple hours while our turkey is cooking. I don't think that either of us are in full enthusiastic agreement but it's as close as we can get right now.
I told W that I just can't work on fixing us and my relationship with her mom and dad right now. I need to focus on our marriage and her parents will just have to wait a bit. MBTech, I've been following your thread, but haven't posted... Just want to say that this is not an enthusiastic agreement and should not be carried through with. If they need to wait, then they wait. How about them coming over for an hour on thanksgiving instead? CV
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Doormat_No_More, I'll try to remember that. Still very new at this.
Celtic Voyager, the in-laws plans are set so I know they won't change them. But my issue is I don't want to see them right now. I am civil when I need to interact with them but their current opinions are "we'll do whatever makes W happy. If she'd rather be with OM then we support it. H pushed her into having an affair so he has no one to blame but himself." As such the problem is W still wants to see her parents and I want to avoid them. I'm also concerned that if she's alone with them and our situation comes up they may cast me in a negative light which won't help things.
W and I have some time scheduled for conversation tonight so I'll work towards joint agreement.
Married 11 years. 1 Toddler, 1 Teen
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Good news: we worked out a compromise that we both agree to. Bad news: We were working on some of the things Jennifer asked us to do plus we were spending some of our quality time together when WW started to cry. She said she didn't know if she is strong enough. That it felt like she was standing at the base of a mountain and she didn't know if she could do the things that make me happy ( by that she meant meeting my EMs ). I said every relationship has this mountain. It would be no different if we were with someone else, and that I'd rather climb this mountain with you.
It still hurts to hear though.
Married 11 years. 1 Toddler, 1 Teen
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Good news: we worked out a compromise that we both agree to. Bad news: We were working on some of the things Jennifer asked us to do plus we were spending some of our quality time together when WW started to cry. She said she didn't know if she is strong enough. That it felt like she was standing at the base of a mountain and she didn't know if she could do the things that make me happy ( by that she meant meeting my EMs ). I said every relationship has this mountain. It would be no different if we were with someone else, and that I'd rather climb this mountain with you.
It still hurts to hear though. Being a man is tough. It means carrying our spouse when she is weak. I remember my wife's ailment was so bad at one point I carried her downstairs every morning, and upstairs every night...for 6 months. I found that I had to do this after the affair too. I did it for the first 2+ years after dday... Only then was she strong enough to help me. Put the affair aside... That's a lot of what marriage is. We make those love bank deposits so when we are weak our spouse can carry us. Be strong. It's hard. you'll get worn out. Rest. But don't stop. CV
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The more time you spend together and the more good feelings you have during those times the easier it will be, My husband was like that too, it took a few months before he tried without me reaching out to him first........eventually it was him thinking about what I needed all on his own, you just keep being the best husband in the world, be loving, let her fall in love with you again.........enjoy the process, slowly.........don't be hurt, just think it's a day in the big plan and don't get caught up in a disappointing word or moment.
Last edited by jessitaylor; 11/17/11 08:15 AM.
BW 56 WH 57 Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that..... DS 23, DS 25 D-Day Nov 23/09 NC Mar 1/10 Working on Recovery Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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Thanks again all for the support. I have a question.
Last night we discussed the issue of SF (among other things). WW wants the right to say no even if we have the time scheduled. I told her she always has the right to say no. Then she told me not to express disappointment or anger when she says no. I fully agree with the anger part (something I rarely express anyway) but I don't think it's right that I should have to hide my feelings.
I don't have a poker face. So even if I just say "thank you for your honesty" and continue on W will know I'm not just happily accepting her answer. But we're only in recovery week 3 so I don't want to make things worse by making her feel guilty when I don't react positively.
What do I do?
Married 11 years. 1 Toddler, 1 Teen
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Thanks again all for the support. I have a question.
Last night we discussed the issue of SF (among other things). WW wants the right to say no even if we have the time scheduled. I told her she always has the right to say no. Then she told me not to express disappointment or anger when she says no. I fully agree with the anger part (something I rarely express anyway) but I don't think it's right that I should have to hide my feelings.
I don't have a poker face. So even if I just say "thank you for your honesty" and continue on W will know I'm not just happily accepting her answer. But we're only in recovery week 3 so I don't want to make things worse by making her feel guilty when I don't react positively.
What do I do? It is reasonable to be disappointed, and you shouldn't have to hide it. It isn't unreasonable to be disappointed for not being able to be with your wife. Anger is a no-no, but you already know that. Express to her **WHY** you are disappointed... That you love her and desire her and that is why. Not because you didn't get satisfied. CV
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