Why have you played tit-for-tat over your children?

How do you think that makes the kids feel, mommy all stressed out, daddy refusing to do more because it wouldn't be FAIR TO HIM? If you want childcare split 50/50, well, you're on your way with an attitude like that.

I certainly can't guarantee this, but I'd wager that a bit of compassion on your part, a bit of listening and commiserating, without ONE SINGLE SECOND more of 'doing' on your part would have solved the childcare stress.

I'm appalled that you would scream at your wife AT ALL. My H and I attended a marriage seminar-type-thing a few weeks ago at our church, and the speaker said there should be a special ministry at the church for guys who scream at their wives, they should employ only the biggest, strongest guys and call it the "Laying on of Hands" ministry. Yes, a speaker in a church suggesting that guys who scream at their wives deserve to have the snot stuffed out of them.

I don't want to get you too far distracted from busting up your wife's affair--that's your main focus right now--but you HAVE to be someone who she would choose to be with. And probably apologizing for blowing off her complaints and doing better in the future will help you with that goal.

I have no idea about her translation about YOU putting the oldest into daycare...was this a decision you made by yourself? Stop doing that. And stop agreeing to things that hurt you (more financial stress).

DailyGrind, are you in Plan A at this point?

If so ... no Love Busters. None at all. No Love Busters, meet emotional needs, collect evidence of the affair and expose it.

Very simple mission, but it's hard for some of us to spot our own disrespectful judgments, and I see you have a problem with anger as well. Welcome to the club. Now, knock it off and quit getting emotional and distracted with stuff from your primary mission: no love busters, meet emotional needs, collect evidence of the affair and expose it.

If you are an angry man, you are probably an emotional man who loses your grip and makes irrational, short-sighted decisions that will torpedo your marriage. I know, because I am one! Time to quit listening to your rapidly beating heartbeat and listen to what you are told here and step through it in a very strict, dedicated manner, if you want to have any chance of pulling this through.

Have you put in a call to Dr. Harley on his radio show?

What has come across (several times) in your thread is that your children seem to be the proximate cause(s) of your wife's sense of over-burden. Is that true? Or are there other areas in which she resents/discounts your efforts at assisting her in her daily tasks?

scream? Where did I mention that?

First page.

This:

Wow (loaded question)...that's a lot like the question to the Politician....."Senator...when exactly did you stop beating your wife?" If he answers..."I don't beat my wife"...they come back with..."so...you've stopped then?"

The children have definitely caused a lot of stress on both of us. I love my children to death...and are the reason I never left. Oh....I've thought about it. A happy family is ALL I ever wanted in life. She made it sooo hard to express how much I cherished it.

But ..that damned store of her's is probably what really started us downhill. It took away our finances, time together..and added untold stress to our lives. She actually accused me the other day of not being sympathetic to her, when she was working the store...pregnant with our first child. Saying that I didn't have sympathy for her morning sickness...telling her she HAD to work. Conveniently, she forgot about the roughtly 2-3 weeks...where I would literally work until 5:00 AM..making her candles (after working all day....and into the next)...because she couldn't handle the smell of the scents. Now...i'm SURE I probably pushed her to work ....IF SHE COULD! Afterall, our financial well being was invested in the store. But...I sure wasn't "un-sympathetic." And that's the last non-positive thing I'll say about her.

And how did she do that?

Duct tape?

I'm getting dizzy with all of this self-examination. DG, the time for you to examine your communication skills with your wife has not yet arrived. She is in a fog right now and has been for longer than you know. Anything she says is going to come from the fogged-out mindset of a wayward. Discussing this with her right now is a lose/lose for you. Including distracting yourselves with some half-baked counselor who is going to want to talk about your childhoods, or other nonsense like that that has nothing to do with the problem at hand.

Look. Here's what you need to do: get the spyware we told you about and start snooping. Don't say anything to her if you find something! Bring it here.

While you are getting your intel together, be the best husband/father/man you can be. Ask yourself "What can I do to help my wife today?" and then do it. This is the carrot art of Plan A.

Cool it with the anger. Choose to be peaceful!

Bust up the affair. Discussing communication will come when she's defogged.

If she wants 'space' tell her that you're more than happy to help her set up her own office. But the business of sleeping apart isn't going to work for you. No one needs 'space' to sleep at night. That section on her side of the bed is all the 'space' she needs when she's sleeping.

Here's a link to the Plan A thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2400725&page=1

Ugh!

Stop trying to find reason with her babble!

It's not there BECAUSE she's checked out, DG. She's found someone else that fills her world with sunshine, rainbows and little dancing fairies while you represent all the "drudgery" in life.

I'm telling you, DG, quit trying to reason with this woman! Just do what others suggested--lay off the anger, DJ's, AO's, etc. and be the best husband that she'll let you be.

But she won't let you and you'll get frustrated, ok? She'll find a critique with everything you do because it doesn't fit her playbook of "he was mean to me so I'm justified with doing [fill in the blank]." Some of the lines may be...

-Why are you doing [blank] now when you didn't before!
-It's too late!
-You're just trying to manipulate me into staying in this marriage!
-I've been unhappy and miserable for longer than we've been married and you never listened!
-I've never been happy even though the past would suggest otherwise.
-Your putting the milk on the wrong shelf in the fridge is just ANOTHER example of all the crap that you do to hurt me!
-OM isn't the cause of this and has absolutely nothing to do with it! I'd still be wanting to leave even if he wasn't in the picture! If I leave, I won't marry him because it's not like that!
-Everything's your fault! Yes, absolutely everything and you're off your rocker if you think she is doing anything wrong. Her actions are noble and honest and she's worthy of sainthood for putting up with you for so long. She's miserable and it is the direct result of your abuse.

But do what you can realizing that she's generally closed off from you and most will fall on deaf ears. But, hopefully, some will get through. So be a good dad and get the goods on this thing with OM so you can get him out of the picture and turn this shop around.

And please let us know if you got the keylogger and cellphone spyware in place or, at least, have it on your things-to-do list.

Yes...I have much to learn. I'll begin immediately.

Thanks

Funny, I think this:


is more like a line our dear poster would say. Did you read his first post, where he complained about lack of sex and was all "What? So she tries to improve our sex life and she expected me to give up pr0n? Who thinks like that? Hey, I'm a guy, I'm no saint. How terrible she was for getting mad about me masturbating to the internet."

How about the medal he wants for helping with the store for 2-3 weeks (out of the 36-40 weeks of a normal pregnancy)? How DARE she say he was unsympathetic!

Frankly, I'm not so sure he's even here to fix his marriage. I think he wants everyone to jump on his MY WIFE IS TERRIBLE bandwagon.

Sorry, I know I'm distracting a bit from affair busting, but I'm just saying...what I've seen so far would not be appealing to me, and being appealing to his wife is important if he hopes for her to return to the marriage after exposure. I get the feeling that her complaints aren't simply affair fog...I think they've been going on for a very long time and falling on DG's deaf, defensive ears.

Uhm....CWMI...I'm not exactly sure what I did to get under your skin. But...she didn't have morning sickness for 36-40 weeks. But...just so you know....I ALSO...worked full time (plus) AND...did all her accounting, ordering, marketing, product labeling. I put in at least 20+ hours/week for that business, as well. Nearly every weekend...I loaded up her products and went to craft shows (usually 2-day shows)...trying to sell her products for her. That's neither here nor there...i'm not asking for any medal. I did everything in my physical/mental power to make that thing a success for her. I never pushed her to do it. It was HER store.

As to the porn.....I'm human. I don't ask for forgiveness from anyone but her, for that. I can't defend it. I'm not JUSTIFYING it...just explaining it. Yes...she did try giving me some more sex. But she didn't give me any more affection. Did I deserve it......I don't know. I DID bring up the sex...but I think I emphasized more the affection.

Anyway...blast me more, if you wish. You can't make me feel any worse than I do. Only my wife has that power.

Regards.

That could very well be. But it's not going to matter whether the chicken or the egg came first as long as the A is on.

DG, I'm assuming you want to save your marriage. So how about you get your intel together on this affair so you can get to work busting it up? All the contemplation that is done regarding how real your marital history is will only serve to distract you right now.

After the A is over and she has de-fogged you can get down to the business of rebuilding your M. I'm sure there is plenty of room for improvement from both of you. We've seen harder cases here that have successfully recovered.

Probably so. Face it, if we had all been perfect husbands and wives we probably wouldn't be here.

I imagine her complaints are valid but are amplified by fairy-tale-land and the OM and now have her closed-off to hearing anything from the OP.

I think he should use this time to honestly look at what part he played in this fiasco, tell his wife and then stop doing the crap that he used to do. You're right, the first post about SF and internet porn is pretty one-sided. It seems they've both been at each other for so long that neither can back down. Empathy probably took a hike a long time ago.

But someone has to go first and it should be the OP since he's here and listening. But, he should do this with the expectation that she'll spit in his face for it...in so many words. I guess that was the message I was trying to get to him. He should have done this a long time ago when it would have, likely, been better received. But, it's what he has to work with now.

DG- Getting rid of the OM is no guarantee that your marriage will recover (especially if the past actions are allowed to continue), but it'll make your WW more receptive to you.

I'd urge you to not engage in any more arguments...especially in front of the kids.

The justifying yourself and negating her feelings got under my skin. The yelling, too. Reminds me of my H. I didn't end up in an affair. Instead, I fought like hell to get him to see me as a human being with valid feelings. I imagine your wife fought for this, too, and then just gave up.

Did you read the Plan A thread I linked yet? What do you think? What is your plan to avoid DJs and AOs (you are rife with these)? What are your wife's needs? How are you going to meet them?

Since she knows you're checking email, I'd go with a keylogger (to find any newly opened accounts), a voice recorder (car or house or both to catch calls on an affair phone) and GPS on her car. Get your intel in order.

DG,

I don't think anyone was blasting you just to be mean-spirited. Any negatives are mentioned as things for you to consider that you may not have otherwise thought of.

We wouldn't post to you if we didn't actually care about your recovering your marriage and family. Even if you are just a stranger on the internet.

So did you order that keylogger and spyware yet? We're not going to let that go

DG, don't try to convince us (or your wife) that you did the right thing in the past. It's time to concentrate on the future: busting up this affair, and creating a new marriage full of romantic love.

Please read the link to Plan A that was provided for you above.

(Are you trying to Plan A?)

Ya know what, stop tying to convince anyone of anything, and let your actions speak for themselves.

Please fill us in on what you think of Plan A. How you understand it. How you're going to go about it. Let us help you perfect it.

DG: I know it hurts. So many here do. IF you want any chance of having the marriage you have not had (and I mean a good one)... listen to what is being said to you here. You must Turn on Plan A pronto. Absolutely pronto. I know you want to scream about what feels like betrayal. I know all about it. So many here do. BUT THE PEOPLE HERE are trying to get you to dive into Plan A now. Stopping the angry outbursts (frankly my friend the real honest term is verbal abuse). I know. I used volume and quick witted comments for over a decade. And it is a choice to stop but it�s like any other habit to stop is not easy. It is a habit. You will do it without thinking. But think about this.
"Losing it" only gets you the opposite of what you want. It never gets you what you want. Think about it. It is BACKWARDS THINKING to believe that by losing it you can have what you want. You want your wife�s fidelity and affection. �Losing It� will only get you the opposite.
Its a hard habit to break. When you are upset it�s even harder to control the habit. And just when you think you won't �lose it� anymore, your wife will deliberately provoke you and you won't be ready for it and you will likely "lose it" again.
Here is the truth. You can't afford to. It is not acceptable behavior.
It matters not how much you have done on behalf of your wife or her dream of a store in the past or how hard you work now.
What matters is what you do in the future....
If you cannot behave in a manner that respects her as a human being no matter how much you detest her behavior...
you cannot Plan A and you have a snowball's chance in a dark hot place. Believe what the veterans here are telling you.
You can plan A without tolerating the emotional affair she has begun.
You can have the marriage you want. But it won�t be tomorrow.
But you cannot have that if you allow yourself to "lose it."
You may not know it, but this is the best chance you have had for years to have the marriage you want.
It is up to you.
Be honest with yourself. Would you want to be videotaped on UTUBE when you "lose it?" How long would your job last if they had a video tape of you �losing it�?Well, you have your agenda of things to fix. While you Plan A you give yourself a chance. No one wants to be a verbal abuser. I know you don't.
I am not an MB expert. I made every mistake and I didn�t listen and several vets here gave up on me. But I am a reformed verbal abuser. And my marriage has a chance now Before I did that (reform the verbal abuse in Plan A) my marriage did not have a chance. Plan A is your chance. Start there.
And if you decide you would be embarrassed to be video taped "losing it" - you must face yourself in the mirror and realize that your children's brains are video tape.
Ignore the fog babble from your wife as best you can. Vent here if you must but take the next steps you are being told.
PLAN A.

Me BS 57
She WW 50
Hers 18, 23
Mine 23, 28, 30
Ours DS 12
D-Day 1 - April 26 2009
D-Dapy 2 (OM #2) - October 15 2009
WW admitted OM #1 on Feb 1, 2010 (our anniversary) - He died!
Exposed February 22, 2010
WW won't admit OM #2 still despite lots of evidence. Hopefully its over.
My marriage is worth the pain. Slowly, with help from a MB based therapist there are signs of hope�
Me: Reforming Verbal Abuser (and I always will be).