Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
Markos,
We need that samurai sword I once referenced to "separate the variables" here!

AFFAIR
Yes, must be ended, and NC (including employment changes) implemented.

EXPOSURE
OWH and ancillary folks (including children) are to be informed as well.

DETAILS
Sorry, but how, what when, where, how often, and how well, are NOT, IMHO, currency to be doled out to "secondary" spectators. The arrogance and superiority of "junior's" demand is improper. I can't imagine anyone being summarily required to supply that to parents, much less to progeny.

A WS does not stop being a parent upon straying. One could make the case that the value of that parental responsibility has been damaged, but the relationship still holds. One of the things that BSs here are often upset about is that an estrranged WS (usually a WW) will make easily known to minor children in her care the actions being committed by the APs.

WH here owes sonny-boy acknowledgemnt of the affair, but not the details.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
I've got to agree with this. I am committed to historical honesty with my husband. Any detail he'd like to know about my life is his for the asking. I do not extend the same courtesy to my children.

I still think there is something we've not been told by this poster that might explain 'junior's' request for all the details.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
In typical circumstances I would agree that a kid is not entitled to the nitty gritty details, but this kid is asking for dates and times. I wonder if his motivation is to use it to seek legal protection for his mother? Snce this father is now the fox in the hen house, instead of the protector, the boy has stepped into the protector role. Does a WH who is actively harming his wife and children deserve the same respect and courtesy as a WH who has stopped his affair?

Could that be why he wants this? Since the guy is still in an active affair, I don't give a rip about his right to privacy about his stinking affair. As far as I am concerned, the kid has every right to act in defense of his mother and ask for it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
...the kid has every right to...ask for it.

And Daddy has every right to put the presumptuous little brat in his place! Hence: my original contribution.

Sorry, Mel, we're going to have to disagree on this. IMHO marital issues (good and bad) are not intended to be treated as 3D-high-definition spectator sports for the entertainment and diversion of children.
Nooo

WH has obviously had his infidelity exposed to his family. Being expected to specify to one's children as to whether POSOW preferred Greek or French, or what flavor lubricant, approaches the voyeuristic and perverse.

Again, this is a red-herring issue that detracts from encouraging Chuck8464 to attend to the real crisis in his life. How about it, pal? Have you taken action to act more like a responsible married adult, instead of a slimeball wayward?

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Markos,
We need that samurai sword I once referenced to "separate the variables" here!

AFFAIR
Yes, must be ended, and NC (including employment changes) implemented.

EXPOSURE
OWH and ancillary folks (including children) are to be informed as well.

DETAILS
Sorry, but how, what when, where, how often, and how well, are NOT, IMHO, currency to be doled out to "secondary" spectators. The arrogance and superiority of "junior's" demand is improper. I can't imagine anyone being summarily required to supply that to parents, much less to progeny.

A WS does not stop being a parent upon straying. One could make the case that the value of that parental responsibility has been damaged, but the relationship still holds. One of the things that BSs here are often upset about is that an estrranged WS (usually a WW) will make easily known to minor children in her care the actions being committed by the APs.

WH here owes sonny-boy acknowledgemnt of the affair, but not the details.

I think only the victims can decide what details they need.

The son is a victim of the affair.

The best way to end the affair is to expose it. If we were all being watched, if we knew that everything we did was going to be told to people who care, we would all be a lot more careful about how we are going to live.

It's time to be transparent.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
My hunch would be to just give him the details as a timeline:

5/10/2009- had sex with OW at the Sleeze-o-Rama hotel
5/12/2009- had dinner with OW at...

When you mention "fine details" I'd say just write down "sex" or "intercourse" or some other clinical definition and leave it at that.

This is the level of details that I am advocating. I don't think it needs to be "nitty-gritty." Clinical, factual, and probably embarrassing, but that's part of facing the consequences of our actions.

But then again, I am not the victim.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Sorry, Mel, we're going to have to disagree on this. IMHO marital issues (good and bad) are not intended to be treated as 3D-high-definition spectator sports for the entertainment and diversion of children.
Nooo

I see ... you are claiming to be able to read the son's mind and see his motivations.

In marriage, we'd call that a disrespectful judgment, wouldn't we?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
WH has obviously had his infidelity exposed to his family. Being expected to specify to one's children as to whether POSOW preferred Greek or French, or what flavor lubricant, approaches the voyeuristic and perverse.

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but I don't think the son has asked for that, and I don't think anyone is advocating it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Regardless, a little class shown toward the victim here would go a long way toward facilitating recovery. I do not think we should be encouraging this man to view his son as a brat. That's a sure beam vs. mote issue, if I've ever heard one.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by Chuck8464
My son (19 years old and in college) has sent me an e-mail letter stating that if I wish to see him again I will write him a letter detailing dates and times that I was with the other woman (it was a co-worker and the affair is over).

I don't see any nitty-gritty details asked for here. Dates and times. Nothing about lubricants and other drek. So can we stop the over-the-top hyperbole and judgment of the son, a victim of this affair, and start suggesting that Chuck make positive changes in his life, like attempting to make things up to his victims and act respectably?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I have found it unproductive to yield to threats, dude,

What's the difference between a threat and a boundary, in this case? Does the son not deserve boundaries?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
No. She is dating someone else. However that does not negate me leaving the job. That is in the works and a requirement of my reconciliation with my wife.

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
Thank you very much for your input. That is very helpful.

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
Thank you Gamma. I don't intend to withhold anything and will not. The question is what is and is not appropriate - is everything his business. Yes, I informed my wife of his request -sent her his letter request and have shown her the draft I wrote and asked for her input. I have done tremendous damage. Claiming and taking responsibility for that is job one. I also don't want to create pictures in his mind that harder to heal. his been through enough.

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,653
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,653
Originally Posted by Chuck8464
No. She is dating someone else. However that does not negate me leaving the job. That is in the works and a requirement of my reconciliation with my wife.

If you could, would you mind hitting the "quote" button when replying?

That way, we'll know what question you are responding to.


Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,459
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,459
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by Chuck8464
My son (19 years old and in college) has sent me an e-mail letter stating that if I wish to see him again I will write him a letter detailing dates and times that I was with the other woman (it was a co-worker and the affair is over). I love him very much but struggling with how much and what to divulge and not include. He heard some general things from his sisters who got them from my wife and he wants me to "come clean" I have no problem being honest with my poor decisions and the pain and turmoil I inflicted on him and wife and daughters. I just don't think "fine details" are appropriate. Any advice from someone having to do something similar or someone who has a hunch?
Chuck seems to be long gone from these shores, but still... (edit: I see you are back, Chuck! Good!)

His original post said that the request was for a letter "detailing dates and times I was with the other woman". That's all Chuck told us.

Chuck himself said that he did not feel that "fine details" are appropriate. I don't know what Chuck meant by "fine details" - fine details for the dates and times? - but it doesn't seem to me that his son was asking about the flavour of lubricants. I don't know how it's possible to read that into what the son apparently wrote. Neither do I think it is correct to characterise this young man as "arrogant", "superior" or a "presumptuous little brat".

I suspect that the young man wants to know whether his father ever used him as cover for his affair. Was he visiting his OW when he paid him a flying visit several months ago? Did he tell his wife, the boy's mother, that he was visiting their son for days, when really he stayed for an afternoon and spent the rest of the time with OW?

I suspect that he wants to know whether he was used, and I don't see anything arrogant, superior, presumptuous or bratty about that.

Last edited by SugarCane; 11/11/11 02:04 PM.

BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6


I suspect that the young man wants to know whether his father ever used him as cover for his affair. Was he visiting his OW when he paid him a flying visit several months ago? Did he tell his wife, the boy's mother, that he was visiting their son for days, when really he stayed for an afternoon and spent the rest of the time with OW?

I suspect that he wants to know whether he was used, and I don't see anything arrogant, superior, presumptuous or bratty about that. [/quote]

I'm still learning how to use this and get the box on top. I don't think my son is being arrogant or superior.... He wants the truth. IMO he is showing me his manhood and demanding his Dad honestly clarify what he chose to do and what disturbed our family so much. I just want to give him what he wants without being disrespectful to my wife and giving him "mental pictures" that are difficult to deal with on top of what I've cause him to endure already.

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,653
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,653
Originally Posted by Chuck8464
I'm still learning how to use this and get the box on top.

You left off the [quote=Chuck8464] at the beginning.

Good job on getting the info to your son, by the way.


Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,459
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,459
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by Chuck8464
I'm still learning how to use this and get the box on top.
Do you see the boxes at the bottom of every post?

Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post

Click on the one marked "quote".

The whole post is now quoted and identified.

Delete any text you don't want to quote, but leave the beginning and end markers untouched.

Try it now.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,459
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,459
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by Chuck8464
I don't think my son is being arrogant or superior.... He wants the truth. IMO he is showing me his manhood and demanding his Dad honestly clarify what he chose to do and what disturbed our family so much. I just want to give him what he wants without being disrespectful to my wife and giving him "mental pictures" that are difficult to deal with on top of what I've cause him to endure already.
Why do you think that giving him the dates that he asks for would create "mental pictures"?

If I understand you correctly, your son hasn't asked you to talk about the physical details of the affair, so why do you find it difficult to simply give him the details he asked for - no more and no less?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Chuck8464
I'm still learning how to use this and get the box on top. I don't think my son is being arrogant or superior.... He wants the truth. IMO he is showing me his manhood and demanding his Dad honestly clarify what he chose to do and what disturbed our family so much. I just want to give him what he wants without being disrespectful to my wife and giving him "mental pictures" that are difficult to deal with on top of what I've cause him to endure already.

With all due respect, you are the last person qualified to discern what is in the best interest of your son and your wife. Since they both were victims of your affair, I would suggest giving him what he wants. He won't have troubling "mental pictures" as a result. Like you said, he just wants to understand what happened to his family. His life will be forever changed by your affair, so there is no reason he shouldn't have this information too.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 137 guests, and 48 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
purple17, cbm800, Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux
71,729 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,547
Posts2,322,775
Members71,730
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5