Markos,
We need that samurai sword I once referenced to "separate the variables" here!

AFFAIR
Yes, must be ended, and NC (including employment changes) implemented.

EXPOSURE
OWH and ancillary folks (including children) are to be informed as well.

DETAILS
Sorry, but how, what when, where, how often, and how well, are NOT, IMHO, currency to be doled out to "secondary" spectators. The arrogance and superiority of "junior's" demand is improper. I can't imagine anyone being summarily required to supply that to parents, much less to progeny.

A WS does not stop being a parent upon straying. One could make the case that the value of that parental responsibility has been damaged, but the relationship still holds. One of the things that BSs here are often upset about is that an estrranged WS (usually a WW) will make easily known to minor children in her care the actions being committed by the APs.

WH here owes sonny-boy acknowledgemnt of the affair, but not the details.

I've got to agree with this. I am committed to historical honesty with my husband. Any detail he'd like to know about my life is his for the asking. I do not extend the same courtesy to my children.

I still think there is something we've not been told by this poster that might explain 'junior's' request for all the details.

In typical circumstances I would agree that a kid is not entitled to the nitty gritty details, but this kid is asking for dates and times. I wonder if his motivation is to use it to seek legal protection for his mother? Snce this father is now the fox in the hen house, instead of the protector, the boy has stepped into the protector role. Does a WH who is actively harming his wife and children deserve the same respect and courtesy as a WH who has stopped his affair?

Could that be why he wants this? Since the guy is still in an active affair, I don't give a rip about his right to privacy about his stinking affair. As far as I am concerned, the kid has every right to act in defense of his mother and ask for it.

...the kid has every right to...ask for it.

And Daddy has every right to put the presumptuous little brat in his place! Hence: my original contribution.

Sorry, Mel, we're going to have to disagree on this. IMHO marital issues (good and bad) are not intended to be treated as 3D-high-definition spectator sports for the entertainment and diversion of children.


WH has obviously had his infidelity exposed to his family. Being expected to specify to one's children as to whether POSOW preferred Greek or French, or what flavor lubricant, approaches the voyeuristic and perverse.

Again, this is a red-herring issue that detracts from encouraging Chuck8464 to attend to the real crisis in his life. How about it, pal? Have you taken action to act more like a responsible married adult, instead of a slimeball wayward?

I think only the victims can decide what details they need.

The son is a victim of the affair.

The best way to end the affair is to expose it. If we were all being watched, if we knew that everything we did was going to be told to people who care, we would all be a lot more careful about how we are going to live.

It's time to be transparent.

This is the level of details that I am advocating. I don't think it needs to be "nitty-gritty." Clinical, factual, and probably embarrassing, but that's part of facing the consequences of our actions.

But then again, I am not the victim.

I see ... you are claiming to be able to read the son's mind and see his motivations.

In marriage, we'd call that a disrespectful judgment, wouldn't we?

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but I don't think the son has asked for that, and I don't think anyone is advocating it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Regardless, a little class shown toward the victim here would go a long way toward facilitating recovery. I do not think we should be encouraging this man to view his son as a brat. That's a sure beam vs. mote issue, if I've ever heard one.

I don't see any nitty-gritty details asked for here. Dates and times. Nothing about lubricants and other drek. So can we stop the over-the-top hyperbole and judgment of the son, a victim of this affair, and start suggesting that Chuck make positive changes in his life, like attempting to make things up to his victims and act respectably?

What's the difference between a threat and a boundary, in this case? Does the son not deserve boundaries?

No. She is dating someone else. However that does not negate me leaving the job. That is in the works and a requirement of my reconciliation with my wife.

Thank you very much for your input. That is very helpful.

Thank you Gamma. I don't intend to withhold anything and will not. The question is what is and is not appropriate - is everything his business. Yes, I informed my wife of his request -sent her his letter request and have shown her the draft I wrote and asked for her input. I have done tremendous damage. Claiming and taking responsibility for that is job one. I also don't want to create pictures in his mind that harder to heal. his been through enough.

If you could, would you mind hitting the "quote" button when replying?

That way, we'll know what question you are responding to.

Chuck seems to be long gone from these shores, but still... (edit: I see you are back, Chuck! Good!)

His original post said that the request was for a letter "detailing dates and times I was with the other woman". That's all Chuck told us.

Chuck himself said that he did not feel that "fine details" are appropriate. I don't know what Chuck meant by "fine details" - fine details for the dates and times? - but it doesn't seem to me that his son was asking about the flavour of lubricants. I don't know how it's possible to read that into what the son apparently wrote. Neither do I think it is correct to characterise this young man as "arrogant", "superior" or a "presumptuous little brat".

I suspect that the young man wants to know whether his father ever used him as cover for his affair. Was he visiting his OW when he paid him a flying visit several months ago? Did he tell his wife, the boy's mother, that he was visiting their son for days, when really he stayed for an afternoon and spent the rest of the time with OW?

I suspect that he wants to know whether he was used, and I don't see anything arrogant, superior, presumptuous or bratty about that.

I suspect that the young man wants to know whether his father ever used him as cover for his affair. Was he visiting his OW when he paid him a flying visit several months ago? Did he tell his wife, the boy's mother, that he was visiting their son for days, when really he stayed for an afternoon and spent the rest of the time with OW?

I suspect that he wants to know whether he was used, and I don't see anything arrogant, superior, presumptuous or bratty about that. [/quote]

I'm still learning how to use this and get the box on top. I don't think my son is being arrogant or superior.... He wants the truth. IMO he is showing me his manhood and demanding his Dad honestly clarify what he chose to do and what disturbed our family so much. I just want to give him what he wants without being disrespectful to my wife and giving him "mental pictures" that are difficult to deal with on top of what I've cause him to endure already.

You left off the [quote=Chuck8464] at the beginning.

Good job on getting the info to your son, by the way.

Do you see the boxes at the bottom of every post?

Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post

Click on the one marked "quote".

The whole post is now quoted and identified.

Delete any text you don't want to quote, but leave the beginning and end markers untouched.

Try it now.

Why do you think that giving him the dates that he asks for would create "mental pictures"?

If I understand you correctly, your son hasn't asked you to talk about the physical details of the affair, so why do you find it difficult to simply give him the details he asked for - no more and no less?

With all due respect, you are the last person qualified to discern what is in the best interest of your son and your wife. Since they both were victims of your affair, I would suggest giving him what he wants. He won't have troubling "mental pictures" as a result. Like you said, he just wants to understand what happened to his family. His life will be forever changed by your affair, so there is no reason he shouldn't have this information too.