|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202 |
Our main issue is independent behavior. Our problems began at the proposal 1990. But, we were pretty good up until our first child was born in 1997. Then it got really bad in 1998. We have a chicken and the egg problem. I know it boils down to UA time though. DH says I gave all of me to our kids. That there was nothing left over for him. But, he also agrees he left all the responsibilities of taking care of the kids to me. What was I to do? He withdraw into computer games in 1998. Shouldn't he have stayed with us? These are his kids too. Because I devoted my life to raising our kids practically alone, was it my independent behavior?
His view - I pushed him away when we had kids. He didn't have anything better to do, so he started gaming.
My view - He left me when we had kids. I think he should have done something more than work and game all the time.
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164 |
Please stick to one thread. It's easier to keep track of your questions and history, and see what other advice/responses have been given to you, if you stay in one thread. To answer your question: Couples marry because they think their romantic relationship will continue throughout their lives. And it would, if they were to continue meeting each other's intimate emotional needs. But as soon as their children arrive, there is a very high likelihood that their romantic relationship will end, because they cannot find time to give each other undivided attention. And with the end of their romantic relationship, their marriage is at risk.
Children do not require parent's attention 24 hours a day. Nor do they suffer when parents are giving each other their undivided attention. It's not the child's fault that parents neglect each other when children arrive -- it's the parent's fault when they decide that their children need so much of their time, they have not time left for each other. But the truth is that couples have time for both their children and each other, if they schedule their time wisely.
The solution to this problem in marriage is remarkably simple. It doesn't require entirely new skills, or a remaking of a couple's ability to care for each other. All it takes is going back to what it was that created the love a couple has for each other in the first place -- heartfelt affection, intimate conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment. These intimate emotional needs, above all else, must be met in marriage if a romantic relationship is to be sustained.
As long as a husband and wife take the time to meet these needs for each other every week of their lives, they will never lose the passion that they had the moment they were married. But it takes time to meet these needs, and it takes privacy. They cannot be met with children running around your feet. Couples rarely understand this important fact. Full article here: Caring for children means caring for each other
Me - 44
DW - 39
Married 16 years
DS10
DS6
DD4
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202 |
Ok, this will be my thread. So, yes? You think raising kids can be an independent behavior? I don't know. I think it could be; only because he left me to do it by myself. I asked, no begged, him to join the four of us. For years he ignored us. No, we did not get 20+ hours of UA.
How we held it together? He met my need for financial support. We met our need for conversation over the phone during his long commute, SF happened every 7 to 10 days (except after my c-sections). Affection and rec. companionship really took the hits. I was "touched out" and we didn't believe in strangers taking care of our kids, so we stayed home with them. We didn't get out much because he doesn't care to socialize so we didn't make friends with people who could babysit. No family in the area. It was a recipe for disaster.
We are still working on the plan for UA. We started this last Sunday 11/06. Our UA so far hasn't been out of the house. He has given up gaming. He sits at the counter while I cook. I join him on the couch for TV. We retire to the bedroom for convo, affection and SF around 930. I thought about meeting him for lunch, but he works two hours from home.
Another thing, we homeschool. That adds some different stress to our situation.
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164 |
I'd steer away from the "who was right" analysis - that leads to resentment. The idea is to form new habits going forward. Yes, there needs to be some looking at the past to identify patterns and habits that you want to eliminate, but mostly you want to start from now and move forward.
Now: is your 14-year-old responsible enough to look after the siblings for a couple of hours? Do you have any friends or family in the area (now, I know you said you didn't before) who you would trust to care for your children for a few hours?
Have you both completed the recreational companionship questionnaire? That is fodder both for conversation and to pick an activity to go do.
Have you both completed the emotional needs questionnaire? Have you identified not just how the other spouse is currently doing at meeting that EN, but how important they are and how you want them met?
Have you both identified love busters to eliminate?
Your H has given up gaming and is working on UA time. That is a huge step out of withdrawl! Be encouraged!
Me - 44
DW - 39
Married 16 years
DS10
DS6
DD4
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202 |
The resentment has been here for years. I want to identify whether my parenting was a LB (independent behavior) because I have modeled it for my kids. If it's an LB, I need to try to undo what my kids learned from me.
Gotta run, more later..
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437 |
A love buster is pretty much anything you do that destroys your spouse's love for you.
Now, with that probing question answered...stop talking about it. :)Go out and date your husband again, if the kids get offended that they are no longer the center of the universe, well, tough tooties for them. The oldest child is old enough to babysit the younger two.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
I'd steer away from the "who was right" analysis - that leads to resentment. It's a Disrespectful Judgment. It's a Love Buster! The plan doesn't work if you don't eliminate love busters. You can both have your own opinions about who was right or whatever, and keep 'em to yourself, okay? It's the past. Move on. Here's the plan to build a good marriage; use it. 
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
He withdraw into computer games in 1998. Is your husband still doing this? If so, it's a problem that can be addressed using this program, in a respectful manner. Shouldn't he have stayed with us? These are his kids too. Because I devoted my life to raising our kids practically alone, was it my independent behavior? This is a disrespectful judgment. You are criticizing and judging your husband, and dwelling on mistakes of the past. The word "should" is usually a key word for recognizing the presence of a disrespectful judgment. The fact is you had an emotional need for family commitment for your husband. The way to handle that is through respectful requests, thoughtful persuasion, and negotiation. Not telling your husband he should do what you need. That's a controlling and abusive strategy.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
The resentment has been here for years. I want to identify whether my parenting was a LB (independent behavior) because I have modeled it for my kids. If it's an LB, I need to try to undo what my kids learned from me. Your best bet for undoing any problems with your kids is to prioritize fixing your marriage FIRST. Don't go off and try to solve this problem with your kids, or any other, alone ... you'll be much more effective doing it TOGETHER.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025 |
btw....
Having done things wrong and correcting course utilizing MB methods and fixing things to the way things always should have been MIGHT teach your kids more than if they were just right all along.
My parents have been married 50+ years and I've come to figure out that they did a lot of things right (mb wise) all these years. My parents didn't talk about it though and I just took it for granted like marriage was easy. I was clueless.
Your kids saw a bad marriage and are going to experience right along side you two the transformation to a good marriage. They are going to KNOW the difference and learn right along with you. I think they'll be better off for it...in the long run.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202 |
Thanks for all of the advice. We read and discussed all the info about ENs, LBs, Giver/Taker,and POJA. Haven't filled out the questionnaires yet. We've had many good conversations. Went out to dinner alone last night. Yes, our oldest does babysit. She hasn't in the late 6 months because she's involved in community theater. I did tell her she needed to cut back though and be at home more often (one play in the spring and one in the fall). She will have a full four months off before the next play starts. So, we can get that much needed UA.
Something H shared with me last night. He said, he can do MB. He's good at following instructions. He needed it written down. All these years, all these conversations, that's why I got that "glazed over look". That's why it didn't stick or click.
Our "safe" word is safe. It's kinda funny. He's catching his LB's before I do. We'll be talking, he says "safe". I'll say, "Did I LB you?" He says,"No, I just LB'ed you!"
Yes, he has given up gaming 4 times before. But, this time is different. I can feel it!
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437 |
lol @ your safe word. I guess it's better than "Out!" Or "Foul!" 
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202 |
Honestly, when your spouse LBs the kids, does it affect you? He is doing a much better job with me, but his day is littered with AOs and DJs towards the kids. Should it affect my lovebank?
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 395
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 395 |
Honestly, when your spouse LBs the kids, does it affect you? He is doing a much better job with me, but his day is littered with AOs and DJs towards the kids. Should it affect my lovebank? There is no should or shouldn't about it. When anybody abuses you kids it drains your love bank. It must stop. When all else failed, I used to take my DD to the grocery store to give them both a time out from w AO. DJ are actually tougher to manage. We all know an AO when we see or here one, but many parents see their DJ toward the child as part of good discipline and guidance. You have to voice your concern away from the child, and by then the damage is done. Could you and h have a safe word to use as a signal to confer before proceeding with whatever is happening with the child? Now my personal counselor advises me to stop trying to be the peacemaker. But I don't think I could have accepted that advice when DD was younger ( now 29 ). What's your alternative? Permit abuse of your children? I have deep regrets that I did not do more to stop it in my family.
Me 58: FWH (NC 32 yr), W 60, married 36 yr, DD 32
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437 |
I voice my concern with DJs right there and then. We were driving home from church one morning when my H declared that our ds9 "Never tries to do anything!" I said, "That is not true." I thought it was just vicious and mean. I stood up for my child, right there in front of the whole family. I've told my H before, in private, that I felt that ds9 and I were the targets of H's meanness and it needed to stop. I'm not scared to ask, "Is that really how you want to talk to me?" or "Is that the kind of stuff you want the kids to remember about you?" or to say that something is simply not sustainable as truth. If something feels like it affecting your lovebank, then it is, whether anyone else thinks it should or not.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123 Likes: 1 |
lol @ your safe word. I guess it's better than "Out!" Or "Foul!" "Steeeeeeeeeeeeeerike!" As mentioned in another thread, any AO can effect your LB$ balance. My W will AO at the walls if she can't find her keys, and THAT will set my guts to do summersaults. Any AO causes me anxiety. When it is toward your children, its just as bad as if it was toward you. Same if it were toward your dog. Or the kid bagging groceries. No target is defined. An AO is an LB, period.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202 |
Thanks for the validation. Today, he was making faces and negative comments about the kids to me. I just looked at him and said "safe". He turned and walked away.
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 14 |
So what is this SAFE word and how do you use it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202 |
DH and I say the word "safe" whenever we commit an LB. He
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 202 |
We need a little guidance. Do we use the POJA to figure out how to meet needs or is it just for making decisions and ending bad habits?
Not lovebusting each other has made a huge difference, but we aren't fully meeting each other's needs. He would like to have SF more than once a week. But, he's not meeting my needs. He asked, "What more can I do? I've already given up gaming and I'm being nicer." We had the idea...Should we just say "Yes" to everything the other one needs? But, wouldn't that violate the POJA? Wouldn't resentment set in?
Really, the only MB principle we've been able to implement is no lovebusting. How do we move further?
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
357
guests, and
54
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,618
Posts2,323,473
Members71,916
| |
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|
