Thanks! I looked and looked for it. When he advises BH's he is quite adamant they not help them move or pay for the move typically. But he doesn't make that clear in that passage. He does advise them to be considerate, but he doesn't advise them to help or to finance the move. I am going to send him an email.

Yes, I also sent an email that they need SAA on kindle because most of the people need that book like yesterday and it is not available that way.

I had to wait 10 days for it and it felt like a lifetime.

I agree he does not typically advise that, it is why it stuck out in my mind so much when I read it.

GJM, when you read the whole chapter you will see that he had followed a bunch of steps before this advice. This was the last ditch effort to get Jon's wife to realize that living a life alone was not what she wanted after all. You have not done all the steps before this part to make moving out the worst choice. In fact, she is living the life because you are still giving her what she needs from you and letting her have her cake.

Me too! I sent them an email about a month ago about this using your very reasoning.

GJM, who is this attorney? Is s/he a experienced divorce attorney?

I just re-read your thread, and I am finding it very hard to believe that a good divorce attorney would have advised you to allow your WW to have the children for the week. If your attorney is already telling you that a judge won't "side" with you (I am not even sure WHAT that means since there are so many issues in divorce) then s/he is probably not a good tough atty and you need to talk to someone else. My first atty was not very tough or experienced and I found someone better...much better...

A good friend of mine was able to prevent her WH from having overnight visitation until he had appropriate housing as someone else mentioned. A one bedroom for three children of those ages is not appropriate.

Why in the heck are you helping her with groceries?

You are going to have to get tough here and STOP enabling. And the ONLY reason that she would have moved out was to conduct her affair more freely. Don't believe for one second because she agreed to counseling that she has ended this affair.

Whose name is her phone under? Who pays for it? Does she have it password locked and what model is it?

This is a lot to soak in....initially, we decided to divorce and I filed. I felt so guilty afterward that I never served her the paper work. There is no court order. We agreed on the following. 50/50 Joint/legal custody. No alimony. Retirement rights waived. I kept all of the furniture in the house minus part of our sectional. My W would have had her family help her move if I didn't. At the time I felt like we were amicable and were in agreement about everything. Tonight my son asked me if my W was having an affair. I couldn't bring myself to tell him because he instantly started to cry and I panicked. I just told him I was doing everything I could to work things out. I know, I'm chicken.

As far as the apt goes, my attorney said that as long as the place is clean, a judge won't side with me just because of the size that it is. He said the boys could be in one room and my wife and daughter in another. I personally have a problem with it, but I don't know what I can do. The money that was used to set up her apartment was her half of savings. I don't give her money. I pay bills and groceries with my pay check.

I know you all are familiar with the signs of an ongoing affair. And I know that many of you believe that it's still going on. At this point, do I keep telling everyone that she's still having the affair when I don't have any more proof? Now that she's moved out, what can I do differently?

SusieQ,
The attorney was from men's divorce help. I help with groceries for the kids. How can I stop her from seeing the kids if she becomes forceful? They don't want to be there either, but I want them to have both parents in their lives. I would like to get tough if it is the legal way. A mom can mess up 100 times and not lose her kids. A dad only gets one chance.

When I say side with me, I mean the judges try to give 50/50 custody as much as possible. I would want more than that in order for them to live with me, but I have no money to hire an attorney. I was lucky that one of the kids I coach in football has a dad that is an attorney.

To add to DDay, when I was asking all the questions, W was forthcoming and gave me all of the answers I had asked. She said she hadn't seen the OM for 3 weeks and I asked about the love part. She said she didn't love him. I asked why she said it, but she said because he said nice things to her. She also said that I never looked at her the same again after her first affair. I never once threw that in her face. I thought things were going pretty well. Then I was blind sided.

First off, since there is no court order for your sons to be dragged from their home to her flop house, I would stop sending them there. That is not in their best interest. A better solution is to allow her visitation on Wednesday night from 5 to 8 and Saturday or Sunday afternoons. She can come pick the kids up from your home and return them. Stop dragging your kids out of their safe beds to accommodate her filthy affair. That is not fair to them.

Stop giving her money.


You need to expose the affair. But I am very concerned that you can handle that. I don't mean that in a mean way, but you have tried so hard to appease her that I am concerned you can handle the pressure under fire. Will you be able to handle her fury when she finds out you exposed the affair?


Has he already been exposed to the OM over there? I am sorry you have lied to your kids.

Your wife is a liar. So this is her SECOND AFFAIR?

How can I keep the kids from going over there? I take them to school and she picks them up. She gets off of work at 12 or 1 and I don't get off until 4. I have told her to leave them here and she can visit them, but she says "I'm not leaving my kids."

You're right about me handling the exposure part. I'm very emotional right now. I've been crushed for the second time. I can't say if I can handle the fury at this moment.

And no the OM hasn't been around my kids. I haven't seen any indication that he is even around. It's been this way for two months now.

What time do your kids get off school? As far as I am concerned, your wife doesn't get a say about the kids since she has left.


Are you trained to control your emotions under fire in your combat training?

Have you asked your kids?

Yes, this is the second time. The first time was 2009. And to answer your previous question about who pays for the phone, I do. It's a Samsung Infuse that's password protected.

What happened the last time she had an affair?

GJM, what do they teach you to do when you are under fire? How do you control your emotions and do what needs to be done? Did you have such training?

It's important to note there that "helping her move" was followed by Plan B.

It would probably be very difficult to "Plan B" a spouse if they remained in the home. By helping his WW move, the BH ensured that it was HE who remained in the home, with the WW outside looking in.

In the situation we're discussing now, there appears to be no plan. At least, not yet.

MelodyLane,
Combat is much different than dealing with a WW. I'd rather be in combat than go through this. There is no emotion to deal with other than fear in combat. You just lead and survive. I have no training in dealing with this matter.

ManInMotion,
I did ensure I remained in the home so the kids have their own rooms. They have parks everywhere on base and a movie theater that costs 2 or 3 bucks. There's a place to buy groceries and whatever else they need. I wanted them to be able to come to a stable environment that was best for them. I was hoping that I could save my marriage, but it seems like everyone is telling me I'm doing everything wrong.

GJM,

Sorry if it feels like all we are doing is telling you that your doing it wrong. Its not of our spite or malice but concern.

But consider the fact that we've been where you are, used the tools on this site by Dr. Harley and alot of us have gotten positive results.

What we are asking you to do... it seems to be counter-intuitive at first. I so get that feeling...

When you see our suggestions ..you think we are asking you to draw a green line with a red pen.

BUT MelodyLane and many others are on your thread, so your chances in dealing with this have skyrocketed much higher than before you started posting here.

When you mentioned exposure I just wanted to clarify that its not to expose to everyone. You dont go buying a billboard, you expose just to family/friends/co-workers/clergy who have influence in your WW's life.

Your WW has engaged in another affair because she learned that there were no consequences for her last one. If you desire to make this marriage work, there are going to have to be consequences this time around to prevent a third/fourth/fifth time.