I tied up all the of the base legal services. She doesn't have access to any of them. I already file the paper work in October. I just haven't given them to her yet. In this regard, the only thing left is to have her served and have her sign the settlement agreement that we drew up. There is pretty much nothing left to do, but wait. I don't pay her rent or utilities and only give her enough money for food and gas (My obligation). My money goes into my own account which only I have access to. I transfer the money to our joint account which she uses. I told her that if she spends her money, I will not be able to make up the difference for her rent.

I also agree that we can stop the divorce any time, but I don't want to send the message that I want a divorce. It's a double edged sword really. If the divorce ends up going through and I try to get her back later, she might say that it was me who wanted the divorce, not her.

Hold off on the divorce papers until after exposure is done. Just have them handy in case you need to take that step.

Understand that serving her simply means she is given notice. She doesn't have to sign anything. She also doesn't have to sign whatever agreement you came up with.

She can counter and go for everything.

For now being prepared is good. Your agreement should seen full custody of the kids.

If you have full custody, then SHE would pay YOU child support. The financial obligations are really setup by civil courts. The only enforcement the military has is in following court orders such as ones calling for wage garnishments.

You have NO obligation to support her without legal papers mandating that you do so.

You should consult a lawyer if you can. The JAG can't do divorce. That's a civil matter.

But they could be a good source of free legal advice.

Set up free consults with every good lawyer in the area. After you talk to them (even if you dont use them) she cant use them. She will have trouble finding a good lawyer if it comes to that. Cover you bases. You dont have to tell her you are doing this part. She will find out if she tries to file.

She already has agreed to everything.

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I can't help but wonder what I could have done to affair proof my marriage. I wish I would have been more proactive in making sure my marriage was healthy. I know it's not my fault and she made the bad judgement call.

Listen, EVERY BS sits and wonders the same thing. We have people here whose spouses are cheaters and admit that they didn't do a very good job of meeting their WS emotional needs or that they mistreated them. We have others who have absolutely no clue as to why their spouses cheated, they treated their spouses well, tried their best to meet their emotional needs, etc. Whatever the situation there's one thing that applies to all of them - going outside of your marriage to have an affair will never "fix" anything. How many cheaters actually try to resolve problems before cheating? Not many considering how many BS report being blindsided - some you may chalk up to being either blind or clueless or perhaps not as involved in their marriages as they should be to see warning signs. But the majority of BS usually report it was a complete surprise. The decision to cheat is solely on the cheater � no one can force you or make you do anything, you do it out of choice. Even in the military, they can�t make you do anything, although they CAN make you real sorry if you don�t.

All joking aside, some people cheat without any problems in their marriage. There will be WS that say the affair didn�t �mean� anything. How stupid is that, of course it means something, especially to the BS. These people only think of their own selfish impulses or desires, never once really considering the consequences. There�s a poster here called Oldmittens whose wife is a great example of this, cheated with a mutual friend and got pregnant with the guy�s child, and then was shocked, just shocked I tell you when Oldmittens professed his desire to end the marriage � after all, the affair didn�t mean anything, it was just for fun.

Then there are those people who aren�t �happy� � it isn�t their spouses fault, it�s a problem inside themselves, like they have these grandiose or unrealistic expectations of what their life or marriage is supposed to be like and when reality doesn�t live up to their ideal, they�re not �happy�. No one can make you happy � happiness comes from within. I think this is a BIG problem in America, just look at how many are on antidepressants. Your life or marriage is what you make out of it, life isn�t just something that happens to you, although a lot of people try to exist that way, just floating along through the years, you make your own happiness and life and marriage is something you need to work at, not take pills to make it look better, like slapping paint on a rusted railing, eventually the rust will break through again.

Your wife doesn�t seem to want to work at it, she believes it all should be handed to her because she is entitled. And because it hasn�t gone her way, it�s all your fault, so she is justified in cheating on you because your job is to make her happy and you haven�t accomplished that mission. The truth though is that these people aren�t happy with anybody, and they go on to repeat this pattern with future partners. Some realize after several failed relationships that the problem is looking back at them in the mirror, and seek help or make changes on their own. Some never do. Your wife is now living by herself but will keep stringing you along, because she�s basically �better dealing� you. Once you kill the affair, she is going to need some help realigning her expectations with life and marriage with reality or true life.

I wouldn't stop the divorce now, because that's what she expects you to do. If she has agreed to a settlement and you don't believe she will change her mind once she lawyers up, then let the process continue. Like I said, you can always stop it at any point, and there's no law against remarrying sometie in the future when she works through HER own issues. As far as her pointing the finger of blame at you, well who was the one who cheated and left home? Like I said, it's going to be your fault no matter what you do or say. If you tell her that you don't want to proceed with the divorce, and as long as she promises NC for life and to follow this MB program that you're willing to forgive as long as EP's and firm boundaries are in place, then the decision is really hers to make now isn't it? But if you DO end up divorcing, actions you take now could result in you getting the type of settlement you want and maximize your time with your kids.

Take some time away from thinking about your situation for a few hours and read through some of the BS threads on this site. Read SOL, Chrisner, SDGuy, hell, there�s too many to list and I don�t want to offend by omitting anyone�s pertinent story, but you�ll see what this process is like. Some turn out to be success stories and some don�t. I kind of look at ALL of them as success stories because even though some of these guys may not have been able to save their marriage, they are better prepared for their next relationship and for life in general using what they have learned here.

It really sucks to be in your position, we really truly understand that and, believe me, we all empathize with you. Lots of info being thrown at you and sometimes disparate opinions or courses of action, and when one is under emotional duress it can seem like Babel. But you seem to have a clear head on your shoulders, and now is a time when you really need to try to reason things out rationally, for both yourself, your kids, and yes, even your wife. We'll be here to help you.

GJM, please go to the Divorce section and read a new thread by a poster called OlderNWiser - should give you food for thought about promises from a WW.

Well said americagin. Thats exactly how I feel. Do I want to let go? No, but I don't have control over anyone, but me.

I read oldernwiser's post. My situation is a little different. My paper work is already filed and we did the settlement paper work together. The only thing she can request to change now is child support.

We're going to a new counselor tomorrow. Any suggestions on what to do?

Yes. Cancel that appointment and don't waste your money on that counsellor. Set up an appointment with the Harleys on this site. You are gambling that this counsellor actually knows how to save marriages - amazingly, most DON'T.

Counselor's are a waste of money as long as the affair is still on. I'd make it clear while I was in there that there is little point in trying to fix things so long as she's having an affair.

Make it clear that you're happy to work on the marriage and fix the problems you have but that it can't happen until she ends her affair.

Set your boundaries. Hopefully you'll get a pro-marriage counselor. The one I had was an idiot who told me to go along with what my WW wanted and that it was a phaze.

So be careful.

Oh crap. Don't you have enough trouble as it is? That will be a disaster since your wife is in an ongoing affair.

Most counselors give horrible advice, but sometimes a few are good. Lets see what happens.

Here is the problem with marriage counselors. First off, they don't know how to save marriages. They have an 84% failure rate and a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. They are destructive to marriages and are little more than divorce facilitators. Most are anti-MALE.

They are even worse when there is an affair, though. They don't understand the mentality [fog] of the wayward. So when the wayward says they want to "separate" to get some "space" your typical MC does not understand this is code for "want the freedom to carry on my affair."

As a result, the counselor ENCOURAGES a "trial separation" to give the WS what she wants. [this is one of many examples of destructive advice given by marriage counselors] A "separation" is a trial for DIVORCE, though, so the couple usually ends up divorced because separating dramticallty increases the odds of divorce.

The MC helps the WS achieve marriage wrecking goals based on the temporary FOG from an affair. It would be like helping a falling down drunk obtain his desires, being completely oblivious to his drunken state. His desires, of course, change dramatically when he is sober.

But that isn't the limit of the damage. When a so-called professional gives her blessing to such destructive plan, it makes it virtually impossible for the BS to undo that damage.

There is nothing a MC can do to help your marriage while your wife is in affair, but an MC can cause tremendous damage to your chances. You would be safer getting pedicures.

Another way they harm marriages is to counsel couples in conflict TOGETHER in the same room. Each spouse cites a list of grievances about the other, which causes enormous erosion of any remaining love. Couples leave more angry than when they went in. This is why Dr Harley does NOT ever counsel couples together.

GJ, you will find that Marriage Builders is completely and dramatically different from traditional marriage counseling in that they actually know how to save marriages. The foundation of Marriage Builders is not built on psychobabble and man hating like traditional marriage counseling.

Harley discusses how he is different here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb.cfm/3/20

Thanks. I did see that counseling has an 86% failure rate. I spoke to the MC about being pro marriage prior to setting the appointment. The MC is on their first marriage. I would use the MB counseling if I had the money to do so. My insurance is paying for it. I'm pretty much screwed from what I'm hearing. I was hoping to go in there with some tools to use, but I guess I'll just be wasting my time. I will let you guys know what happens.

If your only choice is keeping the appointment, DON'T KEEP IT. CANCEL IT. It will not help you while your WW is in an affair.

It's too late to cancel because you need 48 hours to do so.

Then go and use the opportunity to Plan A here without expecting much progress with the counselor.

Your wife's goal is to make the divorce seem like the reasonable MUTUAL decision between the two of you. Like it's the natural result of two people that never should have married in the first place.

Your goal is to get the counselor to agree with a couple things:

1. The best outcome for everyone (kids included) is to have the two of you repair and rebuild a loving marriage

2. That nothing can be accomplished towards achieving number 1 and counseling is a waste of time and money if she isn't willing to end her affair and demonstrate trustworthy behavior.

a. If she claims the affair is over then you say fine....move home right now...I'll help you TODAY. Going to counseling CLAIMING you want to work on your marriage yet moving out and being separate are in congruent. Are you really here to fix things or justify ending things?

b. If she continues to claim it's over then ask why you (or the counselor) should trust her word...what type of evidence is she willing to demonstrate on a continuing basis to PROVE she's not still having an affair. Get counselor to agree that there's no secrecy in marriage and people with nothing to hide hide nothing.


She'll, no doubt, try to go off on the "he's controlling" tangent and can't I just get space to which you circle back...without expectation to...

"we are wasting our time as long as there's a third party in this marriage. I refuse to play this game of charades ACTING like we are working on our marriage while she expects me to SHARE my wife with another man OR expects me to take her word for it that she's no longer with him. I'm not a fool."


Be PLEASANT. I call it charging neutral. Say it with a smile. You are having a discussion. A civil discussion you can continue thereafter. However...after a little stick in Plan A perhaps a little carrot is in order. You'll get a few minutes with her after where you can say... "I need a break from all this mess, how about you and I just get a beer at xyz bar....one beer, no relationship talk" If you can get her out...just FAKE laid back and relaxed. Act like you did when you were dating her and all cocky and confident. (I say Act because I know how stressed you are right now and your confidence has been shaken).

Who knows...maybe the counselor will be great. If he agrees completely with you and basically calls your wife out...then he's probably OK. Problem is...if he's any good your wife will hate him as he'll roadblock her whole purpose for being there.

Mr. W

I agree on plan Aing during the appointment and before and after.