WW is coming over and we're going to eat as a family.

Remind me, G - have you exposed the A to your children?

Yes I did

I even let them here our recorded conversation

Well done, Sir. Thank God there are some husbands left who will actually do the heavy lifting that is required to protect their family from some jerkwad.

If I don't post to you before, have a wonderful/peaceful Thanksgiving.

Let us know how it goes.

Thank you I will. I hope you all have a good thanksgiving as well. I hope I'm as successful as a lot of you all in saving my marriage. I felt emotional today and had to go to my room for a quick cry. I can't believe someone can treat another person as bad as waywards treat their spouses and children. Thanks for the support.

Happy Thanksgiving, GJM!

Thanks, you too

Maybe while you are dealing with your WW, you can remember that we've all been there. We all all there behind you. propping you up. What does WW have? Nothing.

Also, when she says something completely foggy, remember that you can add it to the foggy wayward threads.

Maybe you can plan a walk to a park, or some board game/puzzle time after dinner.

Does saying you love your WS make you seem needy? I'm kind, but haven't been using those three words so I don't seem desperate. I haven't heard from WW for about 10 or 11 hours. I'm wondering if that makes it easier to let go of me. I don't want to give in though. I gotta stay strong.

Do you love her? If so, there is nothing needy about it. Real men aren't afraid of either the truth, or their feelings.

I do love her very much. She's in a different place though. After her saying f you to me and the kids hearing it, and her saying there is no marriage after saying I'm just trying to save the marriage, I just feel like if I say it, she will attack me again.

It's your call, GJM. Judge the timing and the context of the situation. If she is reciprocating affection at the time, maybe it's a good time.

Timing is everything (or most of it anyway).

CV

I do love her very much.

Wrong "tense" here GJM, unless you are emotionally masochistic. I would doubt you "love" the woman who was slamming ol' Gym-Bob, moved out of your home, disrupted your kids' lives, said "F you" to your overtures, and claims NOT to want to repair your marriage.

What you "love", I'd imagine, would be the woman she was before toppling off Infidelity Cliff, the woman you courted, married, and had children with.

Tell her THAT, with no reference to today. Let her eventually decide that she can once again become that woman, and receive your love.

So agree with this. There is nothing there to love right now. Hopefully, she will come back some day.

Good point. And I hope so too ML.

WW came over. I believe the marriage is really over. She said that I blackmailed her because I said if she came home to work on the marriage she could have all the passwords. She hasn't asked me for the passwords, but she said she just wants to move on with her life and has no desire to earn my trust again. She said she was sorry for the first affair and lying about the second one, but she just wants to focus on the kids and she was going to get her own cell phone plan. WW said she isn't going to try to take the kids away from me and she was sorry for the threats when she was angry. She said she has realized so many things being alone and that our marriage was always a double standard. She asked me what I would do if our DD13 was married to a man that said if she came home to work on the marriage, he would give her the passwords. I said as long as he wasn't abusive or cheating and she was the untrustworthy one, I would tell her to work on the marriage. She said well, that's not supporting our daughter. I said of course it is. WW said, it doesn't matter. She's tired of going in circles and doesn't want to do this anymore. She had tears on her face and seemed to be genuine about not wanting our marriage anymore. I told her I was just trying to save our marriage and she said to stop. She just wants to be happy and focus on the kids. At this point, I don't know what to do or say anymore. I guess I just have to let her go and focus on me and the kids. I can't force her to do anything and I can't keep killing myself over this.

You did not black mail her.

Stick to your planned requirements for WW.

Do not give up passwords until you can verify A is dead. There is NC. WW is working on recovery. You start to feel some trust has come back.

Don't let her trap you in such discussions. I think you handled it Ok, but IMO the most appropriate reply would have been, "I'm sorry, but I'm not giving someone I don't trust access to those passwords", and move on to another subject.

Stop defending your pro-marriage actions. Trying to argue with a fogged-up wayward is a waste of oxygen, except for the EN she satisfies by agitating you.

Passwords? "Not unless you have a cattle-prod and a wet sponge!"

What if daughter was married.....? "Stop talking nonsense!"

She wants to focus on kids? "Good - come home"

And......can you absolutely rule out any chemical interference with her behavior? She seems too fixed on getting away from you AND the kids, if you get my drift.